American judicial system is a joke.

So I have been going through a pretty messy divorce and child custody battle. No BS my ex and I absolutely hate each other so we are way beyond sabre rattling and we are in a full-blown war. I feel really bad because it affects my kids the most. We have been going through this battle for almost 2 years now and it is finally coming to an end. But not without a lot of bumps along the way.

First major road bump was the judge wanting us to go together to a court-appointed advisor. Or should I say court appointed time and money shredder. If you don't know a court advisor is a councillor who both parties sit down with and discuss the issues we are having and they encourage us to come to an agreement with each other so the courts don't have to make the decision for us.

Typically a court advisor situation can be helpful if the parties have some desire to work together. But once again we hate each other. So first this conference costs me 500 bucks just to attend. Then after 2 hours and no agreements the advisor has to write up a report to the judge which he will take into consideration during the trial. So 2 months go by and I finally get the report from the advisor a month before trial and she put the wrong names in the report. EVERY SINGLE NAME. She literally wrote a report for the wrong family. Or so I thought.

So we contact the courts (AKA my attorney contacts the courts and no small cost to me) and he lets them know we have the wrong report.

The trial is now a week out and we finally get the report back and it is literally word for word the same report with the names changes to the correct ones. This advisor copy and pasted the same report with different names. Now this could have been an honest mistake but how am I supposed to believe this person actually understands or situation if they can even focus on one report at a time.

So the trail took place on September 20th 2017. And there were several things we were not agreeing to.

First and most important was custody. We currently have 50/50 and I wanted to keep it that way. She wanted it 80/20 in her favor. Her reason? Because I work a lot.

Second, we were battling over the pickup and drop off schedule of the kids. At the time I handled both the pick and drop off of both my girls on my days. My ex then decided to move 32 miles away. I live in East Mesa she now lives in San Tan. So I was asking for each parent to handle dropoff when their parenting time is over. She obviously didn't want this.

Third, this was legal decision making. I wanted joint legal and she wanted sole. Her argument for this was it would be "difficult to work out."

Last thing is child support. She is claiming over 1300 per month in child care services to her mother. I am paying 700. But the argument here was I provided actual evidence that I was paying child care costs. She provided nothing but a written statement that she pays support.


So the trial goes down on the 20th. And a small miracle happened before where we came to an agreement. We agreed on the pickup and dropoff that I wanted. So each parent is responsible for dropoff to the other parent's house.

So after the trial, the judge has up to 60 days to make a ruling on the issues. Which is total crap because how is someone supposed to remember the relevant info 2 months after it happened?

Then 57 days later I get the decree and the judge messed up. Even though he put in a minute entry order for the agreement on parenting time in the decree he said that the current plan in place stays. So here I am back to both pick up and drop off twice a week. My attorney had to call the courts again $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and the judge is making me file a motion $$$$$$$$$ to correct his mistake $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

So, all in all, correcting the judge's mistake has cost me another $900 dollars. I filed the motion a week ago. I am now waiting for the response.

As for the arguments that he didn't mess up, It went well.

We have 50/50 parenting time 50/50 legal decision making.

But he did give her credit for child support. Which I still don't understand since she provided no actual evidence.

a reply to: PraetorianAZ

Money = justice

a reply to: PraetorianAZ

it is literally word for word the same report with the names changes to the correct ones. This advisor copy and pasted the same report with different names. Now this could have been an honest mistake but how am I supposed to believe this person actually understands or situation if they can even focus on one report at a time.

I pray you never happen to get a look at any of your attorney's paperwork. I can guarantee you he or she has several templates for any type of civil case they handle and all they do is go in and change the names on them. Your situation may be unique to you, but chances are pretty good it's not something that nobody in the court has ever seen before.

Third, this was legal decision making. I wanted joint legal and she wanted sole. Her argument for this was it would be "difficult to work out."

She's probably not wrong, because often times when a divorce and custody is this contentious one parent comes to view "joint legal" as some sort of veto power over the other parent.

So after the trial, the judge has up to 60 days to make a ruling on the issues. Which is total crap because how is someone supposed to remember the relevant info 2 months after it happened?

They have notes and court records.

Then 57 days later I get the decree and the judge messed up. Even though he put in a minute entry order for the agreement on parenting time in the decree he said that the current plan in place stays. So here I am back to both pick up and drop off twice a week. My attorney had to call the courts again $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and the judge is making me file a motion $$$$$$$$$ to correct his mistake $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Sounds like your court system is out to generate as much revenue as possible.

a reply to: PraetorianAZ

My sister is going through a divorce. She's upset because she's required to give her husband 1/2 of her pension when she retires. Her kids are in their 20's so child support isn't an issue. I can't understand how this can be justified since they both work. Just because she made more money than him requires her to give him half her pension?

Children should be 50/50 unless in cases of physical, sexual abuse or if the husband or spouse has a criminal record or has a drug addiction.

It seems like our justice system is set up to drain our $$ when our backs are against the wall. They know the only option is to go through the legal expense to defend yourself. They take full advantage of it.

a reply to: PraetorianAZ

Welcome to family law, where points are made up and the law doesn't matter.

We handle family law at the firm I work at, and we call them the "Wild West" court cases. Generally, nothing matters except who has the better argument. On top of that, depending on which court district you are in, there could be a bias towards the Man or Woman. In Michigan, we have "Friend of the Court" instead of "court advisor" (which is basically the same thing); However, depending on which county we are holding a case in, we may refer to this person as "Friend of the Wife", as they will go out of their way to discredit, refuse evidence on behalf of the husband, and side with the Woman in 99% of cases.

Unfortunately, District court and family law isn't neutral and black and white (as it should be). You have judges and FoC's that hate the world, hate a specific gender, and take it out on the people accordingly. For example, I went through a divorce with two children in one of our "women friendly county's". I went for sole custody, as I had signed affidavits from my ex's own family stating how horrible and neglectful of a mother she was being, text evidence that she blew off her days with the kids and lied about it so she could get drunk and party (with one instance ending in a drunk driving accident and a trip to the hospital) among other things, and the Friend of the Court refused to even let the argument or evidence be brought up in front of a judge, stating that they would "make a note of it."

I changed my address and took my case to a different county faster than you could say "well that was a load of biased B.S."

Courts are jokes. Court appointed attorney's, referees, FoC's, advisors are all worthless..... Their sole purpose is to make money, and make everyone's life a living Hell

a reply to: PraetorianAZ

The only thing worse than a bad marriage are the divorce proceedings.

That too will pass. Don't dwell on the past , they are trying to get you to lose control and commit a crime so they can dump even more weight of system upon you.

You don't have to like it, just endure the indecency.

Your lawyer should ask that her mother provide tax filings and proof of deposit of $1300 per month.

If you paid with checks it's easy for you to prove.
If you paid cash I would ask for proof she is paying her income tax on that money.
They might change their tune.

a reply to: PraetorianAZ

So, because you and your wife hate each other and can't be adults about the issue of child custody (no matter who the main culprit is), and you just happened to have a judge who, apparently, made a mistake and you have to pay hundreds to fix (I have issue with that claim without knowing the details...and I don't want to), you blame the "justice system" and call it "a joke."

Look, I went through something similar to what you're describing when my parents got divorced at my tender age of 8-9 years old (the process straddled my birthday), and to this day, 30 years later, I still vividly recall the immaturity and selfishness with which the custody battle was fought. My mom basically used it as a way to punish my dad, wanting full custody, while my dad was bit more level-headed and wanted split custody. After months of fighting and complaining and screaming and crying over it, what was decided for the initial agreement was that my dad would have custody every other weekend, but also had visitation rights during other times if my mom agreed.

This decision tore both us kids (me and my sister) and my dad up. On top of the child support that he had to pay, he also gave up the house that he had built (into which he put uncountable hours into making it a great family home) and moved to an apartment without a garage. This caused him to have to sell his 1930 Model A street rod (we used to take it to car shows quite often) and really realign his lifestyle--a lifestyle that always included us kids.

My mom, after gaining this custody agreement, remarried soon after, moved us across the city, to a new school district, into a large home where she became a workaholic and I despised my step-dad. I ALWAYS looked forward to my dad coming to get us, but there was a time when he arrived about 10 minutes early to get us, and I was literally being pulled on one arm by my mom and the other by my dad, caught in the middle of this stupid-ass immaturity.

When I turned 12, I was allowed by the State of California to choose with which parent I wanted to live, so the custody basically got reversed and I chose to live with my dad, who had bought a house in an area close to my old home, in a school district with many of my old friends--all decisions made in the best interest of the children.

By the time I was a junior in high school, my mom had moved more than six hours away, and I only visited intermittently (but it was Lake Tahoe, so it wasn't exactly a terrible place to visit).

I still love my mom, even though as an adult I can see the severe selfishness that occurred during the divorce. She was the one that wanted the divorce, she was the one trying to punish my dad during the divorce instead of necessarily thinking about what was best for my sister and I, and made numerous selfish decisions after that caused me to live with men that I despised and in houses and school districts that I still recall with tarnished memories.

My point in all of this long comment is to note that, as time goes on, things will and can change concerning custody agreements, and my dad shelled out countless amounts of money during and after the divorce, but I'll tell you, he fought very hard in nearly ever decision that he made during and post-divorce with the his children in mind, and as we grew older, we easily, easily recognized this truth.

So, you are absolutely correct when you say that this is affecting your kids--probably deeper than you realize. I see no reason in celebrating birthdays anymore, and I haven't ever since I was a teenager. This probably stems from the fact that my dad was made to move out of our house and family on my 9th birthday.

Tread lightly on timing and amount of bickering and hate that you carry during this process--just remember that the children are the true losers in this process. But remember, the "justice system" isn't a joke because of what you're going through, the joke is the inability for adults to come to appropriate agreements without having to use the courts to make the decisions for them.

I don't envy you, and I'm not accusing you of being the problem, I'm just addressing this from the viewpoint of a victim of contentious divorce, and I do want to reiterate that, when it comes to family law, "justice" isn't always the goal for all parties involved (or their bank accounts).

a reply to: WeRpeons

Whoever makes more should be on the hook for 4 years, no more.

A lot of women have "husbands" they don't legally marry to keep the spousal support rolling in.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: PraetorianAZ

Tread lightly on timing and amount of bickering and hate that you carry during this process--just remember that the children are the true losers in this process. But remember, the "justice system" isn't a joke because of what you're going through, the joke is the inability for adults to come to appropriate agreements without having to use the courts to make the decisions for them.

I don't envy you, and I'm not accusing you of being the problem, I'm just addressing this from the viewpoint of a victim of contentious divorce, and I do want to reiterate that, when it comes to family law, "justice" isn't always the goal for all parties involved (or their bank accounts).

You are absolutely right. I have told her many times that I dont want to fight anymore and that we should be adults in this situation. It falls on deaf ears. And the Justice system, in this case, is only looking out for the kids and not me. But they certainly are not helping me. They are only making things more stressful and costly for their mistakes.

But I already feel the difference in my children when they are with me vs her. We have been divorced about a year and separated for 2 years and she is already re-married and just had another kid with her husband. This doesn't bother me at all but what does bother me is my children saying they feel like their mother "doesn't like them anymore" and just "sends them up to their rooms all day" and that "everyone on moms side of the family treats us differently now" My girls are 8 and 10 years old. Did you experience anything like this? I cant tell you how many times they have begged me and cried and screamed to not go to their mothers.

You have any advice on how to help them with this?

a reply to: PraetorianAZ

Are there state laws that mandate that they're able to "choose" their main parent as far as custody goes at a certain age, like California had/has? I would talk to them about that, if it exists, but not in a way that is seen as you trying to get them to live with me.

It's an important thing to consider on their behalf, because if they truly are as miserable as they seem and say, then knowing that they have some control over their not-too-distant future could help ease their minds, at least a little.

Luckily, my Mom was already "spayed," so I didn't have to deal with what could have been an emotional trauma on top of the split of my parents and the Ping-Pong life of split custody. I really, truly feel for your children (and you, for having to watch them go through this scenario). If they have not, though, I would suggest that they try to sit down with their mom--and ONLY their mom--and explain to her where they stand emotionally. At 8 and 10, that can be a pretty daunting task, and they may not be emotionally mature enough to do it or understand their mom's reaction to the discussion, but if you feel that it would help, that could be one thing.

I have heard too many times parents who were divorced say something similar to, "I never knew that they were feeling like that." I don't know...maybe it's not intentional on your ex's part, or maybe it's the influence of the new male figure in their life, or maybe it's the new baby, or a combination of all three plus much more, but there must be a willingness to openly listen to the children on both sides of the equation, or the one not listening will end up pushing the children away.

You could also, as horrible as it sounds, just let your ex know what your kids are saying, and maybe she can spark the discussion instead of making the kids do it. With a new baby and husband and...basically, a new life...surrounding her, she may just be losing sight of "fairness" with your daughters, but it may be unintentional and she'd like to know about it.

But I don't know, every situation is different, and without knowing you or the girls or your ex, this is all just random shots in the dark. I do know that, even at a similar age as your girls, I hated the fact that I felt like things were being kept secret from me. I would always argue that openness with the affected children is always the best approach, and even though my daughter is just about 4, and my son is 14, my wife says that the upcoming years that face your daughters are ones where they need to foster a strong, honest relationships with mothers, otherwise you face the potential (and terrifying prospect) of a rebellious teen daughter.

With all sincerity, though, I truly wish you the best with this. I was almost at the point of divorce 10 years ago, but we were able to work through it (we were both young, and I was acting like an idiot) and now we have a very strong relationship. I was a wreck at the though of divorce back then and what it would do to our son, so, you truly have my best wishes in all of this, especially on behalf of your daughters.

Message me any time if you need to vent or seek any other thoughts on the topic. Obviously, take my words with a grain of salt, because all situations are different.

Best regards.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Your lawyer should ask that her mother provide tax filings and proof of deposit of $1300 per month.

If you paid with checks it's easy for you to prove.
If you paid cash I would ask for proof she is paying her income tax on that money.
They might change their tune.

A spouse doesn't have to pay taxes on child support, just alimony (or as it's sometimes called, spousal support.)

a reply to: F4guy


The $1300 was not child support.
It was paid to the mother in law for child care.

Basically babysitting.

That is taxable and also a tax deduction for whoever is paying.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: F4guy


The $1300 was not child support.
It was paid to the mother in law for child care.

Basically babysitting.

That is taxable and also a tax deduction for whoever is paying.

It IS taxanle income to the mother-in-law. Child support is not a deductible item for the payer, although it can justify taking the dependency deduction for the child if it represents a majority of the support for the child.

a reply to: PraetorianAZ

I feel for ya, I haven't seen my daughter in three years, I have had 3 lots of court orders granting me access, the mother just doesn't comply with the orders and there is no punishment, so I had to give up, there is no point in going around and around in the court system it's a joke, that's here in Australia.

The court system is designed to ware you out, take your money and # you up the ass for good measure.