Popular Mechanics Debunked

"I gave you a link that will,or should anyway,satisfy you."

No; I was looking for scientists and/or engineers who buy into the conspiracy theory, and you havenb't shown me any. Putting out a ten-page list which will take days to scroll through won't cut it, SMR; either you have the information that you can show us -- or you don't.

"I told you it had articles in there from such people who have writen their thoughts and have even used numbers to tell that alot of what went down could not have happened as it was told."

That is all very nice, SMR, but I am looking for scientists and/or engineers who buy into the conspiracy throry, not "people who have written down their thoughts" .

"Do a little research.Thats all we 'conspiracy nuts' have done and members such as yourself do little but keep going on with what CH has put in his little so called 'proof report' that has NO proof."

SMR, you're changing the subject again. The point of this thread is looking for scientists and/or engineers who buy into the conspiracy theory and you haven't been able to show me any.

"WE keep getting new information ...[which] ... is readily avaiable to you and easy to use."

But your information does not include anything about scientists and/or engineers who buy into the conspiracy theory, SMR.

That's what I'm looking for, and you can't seem to bring yourself to say that you don't have that information.

Why don't you either come out with a scientist and/or engineer who buys into the conspiracy theory -- or be honest and simply admit there aren't any?

I gave a link to a board that has copy/paste from said people.All you have to do is look through it.
I understand it can be tough as is looking through here to find something.It is almost like a needle in a haystack.

So with that said,I will give you this.A link to a site created and maintained by a group of scientists, engineers and other professionals known collectively as the Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-eleven.

S.P.I.N.E. : The Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-eleven
Panel members communicate regularly among themselves and through the PHYSICS 911 working site. We have developed and documented new information relating to the events of September 11, 2001. Articles that summarize the current state of our knowledge have been vetted on the working site, revised and polished, then posted here. Occasional guest articles are also included.

General Statement by the Panel:
"We have found solid scientific grounds on which to question the interpretation put upon the events of September 11, 2001 by the Office of the President of the United States of America and subsequently propagated by the major media of western nations. Our analysis of the detailed evidence implies a staged attack employing a variety of deceptive arrangements. Indeed, every element of the September 11 attacks, including cellphone calls from fast-moving aircraft, has an alternate means of creation."
Physics911

You do not need to be an engineer or scientist to see with one's own eyes, we all run around in circles exactly the way the perpetrators want, us bickering over nothing really, while these crooks get a way with murder.

Who had the most to gain? think about that!
who had the power to control the scenario, think damit most of you have brains, and stop waving your freaking flags. the whole world can see but the majority of Americans can not, why,
come on people, I've gotten to the point I don't care anymore Fk it I'm not American. But that's the American way (( oh well what can I do I'm nobody ) if that the way you think you have been trained well) and like I said I'm not American and don't buy the Apple pie George Bush is selling. I will go on trying to get more people to open there eyes. The American government is corrupt, and as sure as the sun will come up tomorow they had a hand in the killing of those inocent Americans on 9/11.

When considering the possibility that the Twin Towers were brought down by explosives there is an interesting variation which is worth considering: What if the Twin Towers were designed — or re-engineered — so that they could be destroyed in a controlled demolition if circumstances required?
What circumstances might lead to an order to demolish the Twin Towers? A situation in which it was believed that they were in danger of collapsing in an uncontrolled manner and falling onto the buildings surrounding them in Manhattan's financial district. In such a case, it might be held, better to demolish one or both of the towers in a controlled manner so as to minimize death and destruction in the surrounding area.


Video Evidence of Controlled Demolition


Dr.Mark Heath's Demolition Squibs
"While the news footage of the collapses showed the facts, amateur video has shown the reality of what it was like to be there. After Dr. Mark Heath heard the first airplane explosions, he ventured toward the site to offer assistance, camcorder in hand and recording. He was asking a bystander where medical assistance might be needed when a noise above tempted the camcorder upward. As an enormous cloud of gray dust and debris descended, all Dr. Heath and the people around him could do was run until the cloud engulfed their position. Heath, constantly narrating for what sounded as if it might be posterity, described how broad daylight had turned to complete darkness"

First look at this video (a wmv file, playable in Windows Media Player) of a controlled demolition and observe clouds of debris ejected horizontally by explosions placed at several levels in the building to be demolished Now look at this video of the North Tower collapsing. Two of these can be seen clearly before the collapse descends beneath the viewframe.

I'm going for a smoke

[edit on 15/2/2005 by Sauron]

SMR says:

"So with that said,I will give you this.A link to a site created and maintained by a group of scientists, engineers and other professionals known collectively as the Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-eleven."

Thank you. I was not aware that such a site exists. Obviously, after my firsxt view, I must recant my view that no scientist or engineer has pushed ofr an alternative viewpoint about the 9-11 incident.

None-the-less, I hope to have a couple of hours to really look at the credentials and -- more importantly -- the evidence, logic, and conclusion of these individuals to comment on them.

Thank you for your welcome, albeit belated. response.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Then say in your next post:

It's pretty obvious, just from the editors' note on the first page, that they set out, not to find the truth, but to debunk conspiracy theories.

Truth and debunking go hand-in-hand or not? Which was truth: the conspiracy theories about the WTC and the Pentagon or was it the debunking of those prevailing conspiracy theories?

Read the editor's note and show me anything that indicates they haven't already made up their mind that there is no conspiracy. It's so obviously biased, it's not even funny. Truth and debunking only go hand in hand when one hasn't decided what the truth is beforehand, and skipped certain details to make their "truth" seem more relevant.

Good job for an excellent contribution Sauron!

S.P.I.N.E. - Not exactly a stellar group of "scientists."

Derrick Grimmer - one of the SPINE "scientists." He is a perennial candidate for every possible elected office in Iowa. Has never won. Maybe it's because his major platform is legalization of marijuana



[edit on 23-4-2005 by HowardRoark]

Wow, where do these paranoid weed smoking kids get off, calling themselves SPINE and scientists, AND trying to make a difference by trying to run for office.

We need less people trying to change things, and the last thing we need is new ways of thinking!

Actually, wait, thats no my opinion at all.

My opinion is that people have NO IDEA how super-real Computer Graphics can be, and co-ordinating an explosion with a video feed is not that big of a deal (ie. have a camera running, and then show the 'plane' crash, and the explosion, I am saying the explosion could be real without ANY need for a plane anywhere 'cept the screen).

Originally posted by HowardRoark
S.P.I.N.E. - Not exactly a stellar group of "scientists."

Derrick Grimmer - one of the SPINE "scientists." He is a perennial candidate for every possible elected office in Iowa. Has never won. Maybe it's because his major platform is legalization of marijuana



[edit on 23-4-2005 by HowardRoark]

so what does his support for weed have to do with this. The president has used/experimented with weed.

Also, so what if he runs for political office and loses. Is he an activist, yeah, so that does add some skeptism. Yet, he was co-founder of Iowa thin Film Technologies Inc . The company's target audience is goverment contracts. The company was honored in 2004 by the department of defense here He has worked with Iowa State University on solar energy projects. You have to scroll down to "An Energetic Partnership"

I couldn't find where he got his degree or anything but here is a little background on him, other than the fact that he supports some form of legalized weed.

Edit: Just came across this in the catalog for our school libraries.

Corp author: Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory.

Title: Augmented solar energy collection using various planar reflective surfaces [microform] : theoretical calculations and experimental results / D. P. Grimmer ... [et al.].

Publisher: Los Alamos, N.M. : Dept. of Energy, Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory ; [Springfield, Va. : for sale by the National Technical Information Service], 1978.

Description 36 p. : ill. ; 28 cm.

Note United States Department of Energy contract W-7405-ENG.36.
Issued April 1978.

Bibliography Includes bibliographical references.

Reproduction Microfiche. [Washington, D.C.] : Supt. of Docs., U.S. G.P.O. microfiches : negative.

Subject Solar collectors.

Additional author: Grimmer, D. P.

Added author United States. Dept. of Energy.

ISBN pbk.

ISBN/ISSN 429-T-4 (MF)

"stellar" enough to be associated with Los Alamos


[edit on 24-4-2005 by silentlonewolf]

You may as well be trying to figure out 9/11 from the back of a milk carton. Rense is so full of crap on everything I just go there to laugh at the schizophrenic babblings of idiots. PM put some very real and hard research into their story and I find it competent and credible. How can you argue with a guy who held pieces of aircraft and bodyparts of passengers and crew from the Pentagon site etc? The only real coverup about the events as they occured on 9/11 is that we did shoot down the plane over Pennsylvania. More than likely with some kind of stealth aircraft from nearby Patuxent Naval Air station aka "The White Jet".

.
The proper forensics were never done after 911.

The agencies charged with investigating it, CIA, FBI, and Military Intel, have been shown at the very least to be incompetent and at worst complicit or even participants.

FBI interpreters cheered 911 after the event.

CIA is the one telling us there were WMDs in Iraq.

Homeland security spends money on segways and trailers for lawnmowers and not anything to secure our border with Mexico.

If you are a staunch, flagwaving patriot, a little clue, Your country has been sold out to corporate interests at the expense of the American people, and that includes you.

Better start learning Spainish and get used to completely corrupt police.
The US is going to be an Oligarchy in 30 years. Rich enclaves and vitual slave laborers everywhere else.
.

I have my doubts about both PM and Rense. Take them with a grain of salt. On the other hand, if Sci-Am, Discover, or even Wired were to cover the physics issues involved with the collapse of the towers, even the aerophysics of the attempt, let alone any uncovered archetetural evidence of the debris... then I'd might perk my ears up a bit more... just my 2¢