Republicans Admit That CEOs And Donors Really Need The Tax Cut Bill To Pass — Or Else

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: nwtrucker

Money corrupts. Street people would have to lick the same donors boots for the money to run for any office. Corporations are people too, extremely rich and powerful enough to buy our democracy and keep it all for themselves.

Meh, money empowers. Corruption is a personal issue.

What strikes me-besides the left's version of echo chambers popping up, usually when Trump is doing well- is the automatic assumption that rich is somehow criminal. Right out of Marx's handbook for the poor.

a reply to: Willtell

I've come to realize after the Senate proposed their plan that republicans don't want to cut taxes.

Republicans didn't want to get rid of Obamacare.

Republicans, like democrats, suck.

They all suck.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank Donald Trump for showing this.

a reply to: nwtrucker

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Being rich isn't criminal. But it is corrupt when they think they deserve more when we have wars to pay for. And wounded soldiers. And natural disasters. And people who live in cars and still go to work and school.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: nwtrucker

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Being rich isn't criminal. But it is corrupt when they think they deserve more when we have wars to pay for. And wounded soldiers. And natural disasters. And people who live in cars and still go to work and school.

And it's always been so. No matter who and how things are run.

a reply to: nwtrucker

I think you are old enough to see things have changed. Because of instant and permanent recording of information or data. Available to everyone. It's harder to keep secrets and harder to stop them, like leaks.
Accountability is a real threat now.

Like the so called tax cut for the middle class. I know now, before it's passed, it's a lie.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: nwtrucker

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Being rich isn't criminal. But it is corrupt when they think they deserve more when we have wars to pay for. And wounded soldiers. And natural disasters. And people who live in cars and still go to work and school.

Who are you to say what someone deserves? Part of the problem is not enough people are carrying their weight when half the country isn't paying any federal income taxes.

First, any tax cut is going to favor those paying taxes. This is simple math. The top 1% pays almost 40% of income taxes. Any tax cut is going to favor those payors. You cannot get a tax cut when you don't pay taxes.

Second, we have an issue with spending issue, not a revenue issue. It is beyond arrogant to suggest those of us who do pay taxes need to pay more when government has not even put up a serious plan to cut spending.

As a relatively high earner, my family still needs to budget. My wife and I can work 60-80 hours a week or more. We've gone into debt to further our educations. We made all kinds of sacrifices to get to where we are today income wise. To have some of you bedwetting leftist telling me I don't pay my fair share or I need to pay more really gets under my skin.

My taxes will go up under the Republican plan. I am not happy with it because I want real tax reform, none of this nibbling around the edges BS. I want a flat tax eliminating all deductions across the board. This way, no one can complain as everyone loses their sacred cows.

The people that get screwed are those of us in the middle. Low income people don't care because they don't pay shat anyway. The really rich like billionaires and people worth tens of millions don't care about high taxes as they live off wealth, not income. Those who carry the freight are guys like me.... middle managers, doctors, lawyers, small business owners... we make like $250k-$1 million a year in wages. We have absolutely nothing in common with the Warren Buffets or hollywood elite making $20 million a film but we get lumped in with their tax arguments.

a reply to: Edumakated

My taxes will go from the 15% bracket to the 25. I live in Idaho and pay property, state income, grocery taxes, and now more to the feds. At 66. Cry me s river Mr high and mighty. Glad you have to pay more.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: nwtrucker

I think you are old enough to see things have changed. Because of instant and permanent recording of information or data. Available to everyone. It's harder to keep secrets and harder to stop them, like leaks.
Accountability is a real threat now.

Like the so called tax cut for the middle class. I know now, before it's passed, it's a lie.

I don't see the 'lie' in the tax cuts for the middle class. Clarify it for me. Please not with links. With your view of it...

a reply to: nwtrucker

I'm middle class. How is a higher tax bracket and losing deductions helping me. Selling it as a middle tax cut is a lie.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: nwtrucker

I'm middle class. How is a higher tax bracket and losing deductions helping me. Selling it as a middle tax cut is a lie.

Base deduction doubles, for one thing. That lowers a lot of middle class into a lower level. Frankly, I'd have to see how your bracket goes up. The deduction for State Tax wasn't an issue for me as Washington St. doesn't have a State tax.

I come out of it in very good shape.

a reply to: nwtrucker

I love WA state. But we had family farm in Idaho, from 1871.

With the info I can find, if your income is between 60-90, even with increased standard, your taxes are probably increasing. To go from 15% bracket to 25% is big increase to make up .

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: Willtell

Admissions like these have the dembs wetting their pants while doing a happy dance in anticipation of the midterms.

No wonder so many Republicans are retiring early and simply bailing out.

Tax reform is already DOA. At best, an extremely watered down bill that does virtually nothing will get passed just so Republicans can say they did something. The big reform that was promised cannot get through such a fractured Congress.

That's why Republicans are bailing, they already know they're going to be primaried. They would rather set up for retirement now and go out on top, rather than through a humiliating defeat.

The real losers here are the American public though, because the primary challengers are going to be even more extreme. Another round or two of this and Cruz or Paul is going to look moderate.

originally posted by: RomeByFire
Kind of off topic, but I haven't seen many threads on ATS about the tax plan. I, however, have seen the continuous Hillary Clinton threads.

Probably because the full tax plan hasn't been revealed yet. I'll be happy to make a thread on what is known right now though. A couple buddies of mine actually happen to be rather fiscally conservative CPA's/Accountants and they're telling me that this bill is a disaster. It's raising taxes on the majority of their clients, cutting all types of incentives for education, and basically just giving money away to people who aren't going to reinvest that money in the US.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Willtell

One very simple and effective way to stop this is to end the personal income tax on earned income, which enables and empowers the corporations and congress critters to play us against the "big boys," and of course we always lose...

Take earned income out of the equation -- the fruits of our own labor and sweat and blood -- and we can no longer be used as pawns to be sacrificed on the altar of greed and avarice. Nothing good can come from taking from the poor to give to the rich.

Remove income tax, which poor people pay very little of, in order to replace it with something else like consumption taxes. That effectively turns a poor persons tax rate from 0% to 30% or more.

The very definition of taking from the poor.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I've come to realize after the Senate proposed their plan that republicans don't want to cut taxes.

Cutting taxes is good rhetoric. The budget has already been cut to the bone though, and you can't cut taxes which in turn cuts revenue unless you also cut spending. We have no spending left to cut.

Anyone who doesn't realize this, quite frankly isn't informed enough on the issue to even have an opinion.

Any changes to taxes that might go into effect aren't cuts, they're redistribution.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: RomeByFire
Kind of off topic, but I haven't seen many threads on ATS about the tax plan. I, however, have seen the continuous Hillary Clinton threads.

Probably because the full tax plan hasn't been revealed yet. I'll be happy to make a thread on what is known right now though. A couple buddies of mine actually happen to be rather fiscally conservative CPA's/Accountants and they're telling me that this bill is a disaster. It's raising taxes on the majority of their clients, cutting all types of incentives for education, and basically just giving money away to people who aren't going to reinvest that money in the US.

Less brackets, less deductables, etc. means less work for the CPAs. The more complicated the more money they make...

There's the real reason for their disapproval.

originally posted by: Edumakated
Who are you to say what someone deserves? Part of the problem is not enough people are carrying their weight when half the country isn't paying any federal income taxes.

Half the country (more actually) don't have enough income to be worth taxing. The 50th percentile in income is $37,000. That means that out of the poorer half of the country 160,000,000 people they have a total GDP of 2.96 trillion dollars. That's only 3/4 of the federal budget. If they paid an average of 17% of their wealth to federal taxes, as is typical for the wealthy you only get 500 billion which is barely even 10% of the budget.

The poor cannot carry their weight because they don't have the incomes. You can't tax what isn't there. If you want to see the poor pay more of the tax burden, then focus on reducing the wealth gap in the country. High wealth gaps mean the rich will have to pay a greater share of the taxes.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
Less brackets, less deductables, etc. means less work for the CPAs. The more complicated the more money they make...

There's the real reason for their disapproval.

The tax code isn't being simplified at all with these changes. All of the different deductions for interest, investments, and so on remain, especially if you itemize.

This goes double if like most of the country all you do is fill out a W2 or type some numbers into TurboTax, there's really no difference at all except in the amount you pay.

These people in power are corrupt to the bone.

If they want to cut the budget and balance it that has to be done holistically, that is considering banning the expensive war machine they keep going.

The cold war ended, and what did they do?
Started a new kind of war in 2001---the (FAKE) war on terror just to keep the war machine going.

They’ll never do that because its like an addiction—the war machine.

So every few years they have to scam us with lies and deceptions like: were going to give you a tax cut.

We see through this system but we ourselves are just so entrenched in out own disputes
( left versus right, now Trumpers versus non Trumpers) we cant come together and overthrow this rotten system

Is got to be a holistic endeavor.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: nwtrucker

I love WA state. But we had family farm in Idaho, from 1871.

With the info I can find, if your income is between 60-90, even with increased standard, your taxes are probably increasing. To go from 15% bracket to 25% is big increase to make up .

I'm not 100% sure of this but my understanding is the 25% only applies to the money made after that point of earning is reached and is applied only to those monies. Up to that point everyone is hit at 12.5%.

You'd have to average it out to get an accurate amount paid overall.

That's why they've added a bubble tax for those that earn over 1 million dollars. that bubble tax is about 9.6% IIRC. It makes up what they saved by the leveled rating that they also would pay. IE 12.5% for the first level of earnings, then 25% for the next. After those saving are 'recovered' after 1 million in earnings- estimates are those monies will be recovered by 1.2 million level. At that point the bubble tax is over for each individual and they revert to the base level.

In other words, the average % paid is the actual measurement. 12.5 until the next level, then 25% ONLY for earning above the 12.5 level, Not all earnings.