how is freemasonry connected with the bavarian illuminati?

My appologies - I meant Jim Shaw, author of The Deadly Deception and demitted 33rd Degree Mason (although the Freemasons deny this.)

Actually Pike could have moved things around, in fact he did.
Freemasonry had become so de-standardised that he and McClenechan and many other high ranking Masons embarked on a task to recompile the Scottish Rite into a uniform format.
But my point is that I don't think he did move the 28th degree from anywhere earlier in the Rite because it still doesn't fit in anywhere else, it has no directly related degrees in its themes and costumes and is quite out of place between the 27th and 29th degrees which both lead in to the 30th Degree - Knight Kadosh.
It is a lavish ritual that can last as long as 2 days in its full form although I am yet to acquire a full copy of this monitor.
One important thing to understand though, is that although the 27th degree is not in itself considered significant, it has one very notable feature - It is manditory that the "Grand Master of The Order" in the ritual be played by none other than "The Soveriegn Grand Commander of The Supreme Council 33rd Degree" - in effect by participating in this ritual you enter the elite inner circle of Freemasonry.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
I'm looking quite closely at the ties between modern (post Pike) Freemasonry and The Illuminati at the moment if and when I can be bothered.

That's quite an agenda you have there, considering that the Illuminati had ceased to be in existence even before Pike was born.

Barruel's memiores have turned into quite a bit more reading than anything I've ever waded through before, makes Pike's Morals & Dogma look like light reading.

I would hardly call Barruel's writings "memoires". "Disinformation campaign" would be much more accurate. Even the Catholics, who stood to gain most by his writings, now concede that he is not an accurate source of information:

Concerning the influence actually exerted by the Illuminati, the statements of ex-Freemasons--L. A. Hossman, J. A. Starck, J. Robinson, the Abbé Barruel, etc.--must be accepted with reserve, when they ascribe to the order a leading rôle in the outbreak and progress of the French Revolution of 1789. Their presentation of facts is often erroneous, their inferences are untenable, and their theses not only lack proof, but, in view of our present knowledge of the French Revolution (cf., e. g., Aulard, "Hist. pol. de la Rév. Franç.", 3rd ed., 1905; Lavisse-Rambaud, "Hist. générale", VIII, 1896), they are extremely improbable. On the other hand, once it had discarded, after 1786, the peculiarities of Weishaupt, "Illuminationism" was simply the carrying out of the principles of "enlightenment"; in other words, it was Freemasonry and practical Liberalism adapted to the requirements of the age; as such it exerted an important influence on the intellectual and social development of the nineteenth century.

www.newadvent.org...

it could easily be issued with an aetheist bent if you take the Illuminati's belief system that it is in fact "The Universe is creating God" not the other way around.

The Illuminati had no such "belief system." The Order was political and moral in nature, not religious.

I have seen references by people like Jack Straw that say that everyone obove the 27th degree is Illuminati

Well, if Jack Straw says it, it has to be true!

Originally posted by MrNECROS
My appologies - I meant Jim Shaw, author of The Deadly Deception and demitted 33rd Degree Mason (although the Freemasons deny this.)

It has been shown several times here that Shaw's claims of receiving the 33° were simply impossible. There is no way he could have been telling truth, and it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to surmise the inconsistencies that tear his story apart. "The Deadly Deception" was certainly aptly titled.

Actually Pike could have moved things around, in fact he did.
Freemasonry had become so de-standardised that he and McClenechan and many other high ranking Masons embarked on a task to recompile the Scottish Rite into a uniform format.

Pike and McLenachan did no such thing: they weren't even members of the same Supreme Council. Pike revised the rituals of the Southern Jurisdiction before he was even a 33° member, much less a Council member. And to insinuate that there is a "uniform format" in the ritual is an outright lie, much less to state such a thing matter-of-factly. The only Council besides the Southern Jurisdiction that uses the Pike ritual is that of the Phillipines and the Prince Hall Councils, but even these Councils have revised several times since Pike, and are not uniform.

But my point is that I don't think he did move the 28th degree from anywhere earlier in the Rite

I don't remember anyone ever claiming that he did.

It is a lavish ritual that can last as long as 2 days in its full form although I am yet to acquire a full copy of this monitor.

The second Pike revision of the 28° can be read in full in The Magnum Opus; the latter revisions, including the one currently in use, have never been published, but are similar to The Magnum Opus version. It takes about an hour and 15 minutes to confer the degree in full form.

One important thing to understand though, is that although the 27th degree is not in itself considered significant, it has one very notable feature - It is manditory that the "Grand Master of The Order" in the ritual be played by none other than "The Soveriegn Grand Commander of The Supreme Council 33rd Degree" - in effect by participating in this ritual you enter the elite inner circle of Freemasonry.

Hogwash and both counts. To begin with, the 27° is just as significant as all the other non-mandatory degrees. Secondly, the degree can be conferred by any Brother who possesses it, providing only that the candidates have been duly elected and it is conferred in a properly chartered Council of Kadosh.

Each Scottish Rite Temple has its own "degree teams" for each of the degrees. The degrees are normally conferred twice per year on large classes of candidates, and each Council has one of its own members play the part of the Master in the degree.

[edit on 6-3-2005 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by MrNECROS
It is manditory that the "Grand Master of The Order" in the ritual be played by none other than "The Soveriegn Grand Commander of The Supreme Council 33rd Degree" - in effect by participating in this ritual you enter the elite inner circle of Freemasonry.

MrNECROS:
I'm confused, and was thinking that, since you obviously know more about Freemasonry than actual Freemasons, you could explain one thing to me:

How can the Supreme Council of the 33rd degree be the "Elite inner circle of Freemasonry", when the Scottish Rite and all its degrees is merely an appendant body? That just doesn't make sense to me.

I mean, the Shriners have an organization within the Shrine which is by invitation only also: the Royal Order of Jesters. Are THEY also the 'elite iner circle of Freemasonry'???



[edit on 6-3-2005 by sebatwerk]

Wow the two of you have really outdone yourself in the backslapping department here.
And as far as piling on the BS your doing pretty good there as well.
So let me get this straight - you don't think that Pike (with the assistance and help of most Supreme Councils world wide) reformed the Scottish Rite and wrote a new 33rd Degree for it?
You will have a hard time getting away with this one - anyway its very off topic, and you really should read Barreuls "Memoirs" before you spout off the nonsense you do, he did not write the book as an attack against Freemasonry but he is highly critical of their compliance and the way that once the whole plot was uncovered that many high ranking Freemasons embarked on elaberate arse-covering exercises that shielded all the real culprits rather than attempting to rectify the situation.
Still I guess the little bit of paper that gets poked in front of you with your official line written on it says otherwise so why waste the time do your own research?

But then again seeing you probably have no knowledge of the 28th Degree, then what else can you contribute other than your usual rubbish?