Tesla share crash amid Republican bid to kill off electric car tax break

a reply to: liejunkie01

Good thing you’re not an economist. And thanks for building my (“your”) cities. I’m all about spewing nonsense based on slim anecdotal data and even given to hyperbole. Maybe we can devise a mechanism were we drive out all those non-hard working people from city and hope those trucks carrying the goods they require to survive will be shelved and the goods delivered via mass public transit...heck, we could furlough prisoners to push the buttons on the light-rail system freighting those goods, while the hard working, non-city folk can spend more time on Internet forums talking out of their arse. I’m all in on it!

originally posted by: BeefNoMeat
a reply to: liejunkie01

Good thing you’re not an economist. And thanks for building my (“your”) cities. I’m all about spewing nonsense based on slim anecdotal data and even given to hyperbole. Maybe we can devise a mechanism were we drive out all those non-hard working people from city and hope those trucks carrying the goods they require to survive will be shelved and the goods delivered via mass public transit...heck, we could furlough prisoners to push the buttons on the light-rail system freighting those goods, while the hard working, non-city folk can spend more time on Internet forums talking out of their arse. I’m all in on it!

Um, ok.

It seems that you may have an issue with someone voicing their opinion on a forum. It seems that since you are an economist, only your opinion matters.

Thank you for your time.

a reply to: Middleoftheroad

You have no quarrel from me there. Unfortunately it's part of our lobbyist driven government now.

Hundreds of millions of dollars poor into subsidies, not contracts for the likes of GE, Boeing, Walt Disney, and Marriott just to name a few.

While industries are shaped around it, like our agricultural industry. We subsidize corn and wheat to such a level farmers can barely afford to grow anything else. The real danger of that is if they're only growing so few strands, what happens if a blight hits them? What happens if other countries don't have enough of the things we don't grow to export to us?

These are all big problems, however this one I can stand with if it helps is become energy independent and is better for our environment. Whether you believe in global warming or not, cleaner air for our children is something I hope everyone can get behind.

a reply to: seasonal

Tax credits are a poison to our economy.

These credits absolutely should be killed, and in the public square so that everyone knows it. The federal government should NOT be subsidizing private industry like this.

I think that it's only a matter of time before Tesla goes under, even though they do make a good product.

Certainly doesn't help that Musk himself said in 2015 that Tesla won't turn a profit until 2020.

And no, taxing mileage is not the answer.

Tesla will be fine without the tax credits. I don't think the legacy manufacturers have the creativity and out of the box thinking to make themselves competitive in the electric car realm.

VCs and other investors will keep Tesla a float.

a reply to: Edumakated

Add $7,500 to a model 3. Wonder if that will put the tesla out of most people's grasp. And also add that to a bolt, any takers?

In certain heavily urbanized areas electric vehicles make sense to reduce localized air and noise pollution.

Overall for widespread general use,

Electric cars offer no savings in energy, money, or emissions at present. Electricity supply from renewables cannot cover but an insignificant portion of road vehicles. The numerical values in this article allow easy updates as conditions change in the future.

Link

No federal subsidies or tax provisions are justified.

Reading the article linked it indicates with math shown that U.S. national electric grid and power generation would have to be upgraded by a minimum 20% - more so to handle demand surge from end workday.

Now, from all you pro-electric pushers I want to know who's to pay for grid and power generation upgrades and say how proposed method will equitably treat standard electric ratepayers who are using current system to power home or business.

Once an equitable cost recovery method is derived please use that additional number to true up real cost/efficiency claims.

Thanks.

a reply to: liejunkie01

No, I don’t have a problem stating an opinion, more of problem with people asserting things as fact and, in general, people saying dumb things. You went 2 for 2.

To wit, the below aren’t your opinions but your assertions stated as fact:

All this will do is encourage people to move to the city and be more herded in populated areas.

You have any source for that? No, you don’t. You can, however, research/google “rebound effect” and possibly grasp a better understanding.

Cities would not get restocked with the goods that they need to survive without the trucks that haul the goods on the highway system.

An usage based mechanism will have baselines built in for those interstate freighters (you would’ve known this if you cared to bother spending anytime understanding the issue), but even if they didn’t, those goods would still be delivered. That’s a fact.

Obviously, this isn’t a thread about the gasoline tax — I just picked up on another poster’s sidebar — so I have nothing to add unless you care to deny ignorance and continue to discuss the inefficiency of the gas tax.

Facts matter, opinions are like, well, you know. My original post contains facts based on observational data. As I said, when I have time to really dig in using the desktop I’ll bump this thread by posting some sources. So, no, my opinion actually doesn’t matter, but my facts do. Something you’ve made a poor attempt at supplying. Get back to me with facts and this might turn out productive.

a reply to: Phoenix

Reading the article linked it indicates with math shown that U.S. national electric grid and power generation would have to be upgraded by a minimum 20% - more so to handle demand surge from end workday.

Oil is subsidized and it comes from dictatorships.

So why not subsidize for cheap energy that is produced in house?

Hell, increase rates a little for the first few years, it might make the energy for driving cost the same as gas, but after that upgrade is covered the rates can drop again.

a reply to: Edumakated

Oh come now - if it wasn't for the Petrodollar your citizens and business's would have been history along time ago.

We keep creating a slippery slope trying to interfere in markets and provide incentives. Today it is electric cars, tomorrow it will be some other industry or "good cause

And yesterday it was the "too big to fail Banks"

The USA is Socialist in all but name, subsidies for Oil, Tax breaks for the wealthy, pay - to - play,

Marx won, you were all asleep at the wheel.

Now wait until the derivatives market crashes - planet shaking consequences

a reply to: CriticalStinker

I do not think we need Saudi oil anymore . I wish we would dump them and get the hell out of the Middle East

Musk is a whiner. Build a car that does not need a tax break or government subsidies. So if I buy a Honda Accord I do not get a break but it I buy A Tesla 3 I do? Seems there is something very wrong here.

Do it without any government help.....

a reply to: matafuchs

So if I buy a Honda Accord I do not get a break but it I buy A Tesla 3

If you buy any electrical vehicle you do (used to) get a tax credit. Like buying a PV system for your home.

a reply to: Phage

I do not see it as fair. To me it is an incentive to Tesla not to who is purchasing. Why should a choice get special privilege?

There is about .25% of of all cars on the road are Electric cars. If the government did not subsidize to help sell would it not cause the manufacturers to build more efficient vehicles? Tesla was double dipping with Federal money and then a 'rebtae' on the cars? Nope, not fair at all.

a reply to: matafuchs

The cost of electric vehicles (mostly battery costs) has been declining.
The credit was, by law, set to sunset.

This tax credit will be available until 200,000 qualified EVs have been sold in the United States by each manufacturer, at which point the credit begins to phase out for that manufacturer. Currently, no manufacturers have been phased out yet.

energy.gov...

Tesla was double dipping with Federal money and then a 'rebtae' on the cars?

Tesla did not get a rebate. People who buy electric vehicles (from Ford, Chevy, Honda...) get a tax credit. Better that Trump gets his taxes cut, right? Bigly.

Why should they be so special,I didn't get any government subsidies when I started a buisness,if he can't produce a product and turn a profit,then he has failed,quit using taxpayers money to get rich off of

a reply to: seasonal

Loss of the tax credit's effect on tesla is way overblown.

If you really think that credit is going to stop someone from buying a 100k on avg model s because it now will be 107k it won't.

As far as model 3, there was like less than 50 k people per year at best that we're going to get that credit anyway since it is capped at 200k a year.

Also, Tesla is in the process of becoming more of a battery company than a car company. And the market for batteries outside of autos is gigantic.

Battery cost and quality is 90 percent of the reason electric vehicles are not cheaper to own. Electrics are superior in every way other than cost and time to refuel.