What is up with the bias in the Debates????????

Why is it that I have to go against Dragonrider on the alien issue???

Did not anyone realize that he seems to be some sort of master at these things???

He takes pride in this issue. I don't. He gets what he wants and I don't. Do you really think I wanted to debate on why the NWO is good????

NO!!!!!!!!!!

What about Dragonrider.

Do you think he wanted to debate on aliens????

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It just figures. He is a moderator on this board and he is getting all the topics he wants. It is obvious someone here wants him to win this debate. Can't he get a challenge for once????

Why not give him a topic that he doesn't agree with????

I think this debate is corrupt. I have thought this from the very beginning. (Some suprise huh???)

Yeah I know what you are going to say. You are going to say, "Calm down, it isn't a conspiracy."

Well that maybe true but it is unfair.

I know what is going on here. I am getting sick and tired of it too.

This whole board is biased.

I doubt I will even contribute to this debate. I am sorry, but I don't think that saying aliens have never visited us is a viable arguement. I have been abducted and I have had aliens in my own house. So I am not going to sit here and lie to the public for the sake of some stupid contest. If you can consider changing the debate we are having then maybe I will contribute, but I am sorry I am not going to lie to myself.

I know that is exactly what you want me to do.

That is something I cannot do.

Sorry.




Please take my concerns with heart.

[Edited on 30-6-2003 by Abraham Virtue]

Dude, I just woke up and havent had any caffine... let me get something and come back to this, hopefully it will make sense then...

Well, AV, what exactly do you want to do then?

I can promise you I am not getting preferential treatment, or if so, Im out of the loop on it.

As far as a challenge, I would say that my debate with Illmatic was quite challenging, esp when you read the comments from other members while voting. Illmatic was a hell of an opponent and kept me on my toes, and I have a great deal of respect for him.

Im sure there are those who are asking if I have some hand behind the scenes since I am the mod for the debate forum. In truth, I have recused myself from any oversight of the debate tournament as long as I am invovled, and William is still runnign the show on that. I have thrown around the idea of additional debate forums (perhaps a "grudge match" forum), but other than that, I havent done too much until I leave or get bumped from the tournament.

As far as the topic, I didnt pick it, hell, I didnt know (and still dont know) what the topics in the pool are, or who is going to get what. I found out about this topic the same time you did.

Now, I am prepared to debate on that topic, simply because I am prepared to do my homework and present facts (which is what some *cough* jarrod *cough* debaters did not do). I am no magic debater, I just do my homework. (I would point out that my team got decimated by TCs team in debate).

Dude, take a drink, sit back and relax.

Topics are chosen from the initial polls and comments when we announced the subject.

The debate brackets were filed by putting names in a bin, and picking them out one by one.

Topics are picked the same way.

The art of debate is not about your passion on topics you enjoy, but your skill in showing the side of a topic you may detest. These were the rules of the debate tournament going in.

Once the tournament is over, DR is taking over duties as Czar of the Debate Forum. Feel free to suggest a grudge match to make up for getting this topic.

But for now, this is simply the luck of the draw.

Subject: Biased debates
From: 29MV29
To: Abraham Virtue
Sent: 30-6-2003 at 04:28 AM
Message: Abe, I cannot post in your debate forum, nobody that debates can. so, please attach this post to the thread you started.


I see what you are saying abouth the debates. Two debates in a row for dragon on the topic of aliens is biased. Instead of appointing the topic to certain members, I think we should hold a poll and let the
ATS members vote on WHO gets which topics.

29MV29

I think we should hold a poll and let the ATS members vote on WHO gets which topics.

That's crazy. No.

Luck of the draw. Debate the topic or forfeit.

How does an victim of alien abduction argue in a debate that aliens have never visited the planet??????

I had alien children jumping on my couch for God's sake. You actually except me to debate that aliens haven't been here on earth????

That is absurd.

The only way I can do that is if I lie.

I am no liar, if you haven't yet noticed this.

I'm sorry... but if I change the topic for one person, it opens the flood gates for future requests.

If you negotiate with DR to switch sides of the debate, I'll be fine with that, in this one situation. But he must agree.

Originally posted by William
I'm sorry... but if I change the topic for one person, it opens the flood gates for future requests.

If you negotiate with DR to switch sides of the debate, I'll be fine with that, in this one situation. But he must agree.

Actually that would help a lot. I don't like the fact that I cannot debate what was given to me. In fact I wish I could. But I know that I can't because I have actually seen aliens. My only arguement would have to be based on the fact that I haven't seen them, nor has any other. I don't like to lie. That leaves me in too much guilt. I just don't see how I could even say that aliens were never here if I know for a fact that they were. It is just too controversal.

Your offer helps me a lot. Then I could argue my position on the matter. A position I know that is true. The other position isn't possible for me to argue without lying to myself and others; something I just won't do.

So I will ask DR. I am sure he will give me his side of the arguement out of good faith. But if he wants to keep to it, then that is okay too. Cause I don't think I could keep up with the 12 hour rule anyway. It is too little time and I have a lot to do in these next few days.


So don't worry about it William, it is taken care of.

Thank you for your help.

They can have my Chemtrails Debate instead.lol

Originally posted by John bull 1
They can have my Chemtrails Debate instead.lol

oh... you don't know how hard I laughed when I saw who got that one!

he he he he he

I'll switch sides on the debate if it'll get things rolling

I wouldn't.
The whole point of debating is to put a point of view across.
It doesn't matter if you believe in it or not.

The fact of the matter is, that AV will have to research his topic.

He will get to see the other side of the coin.

AV, dude, I hate to break it to you, but whenever something doesnt go your direction or to your liking, its not necessarily a conspiracy against you.

I dont know if you think that I hold some sway over who is going to win what debate, but I have done NOTHING with the debate forum (because I am still involved in the tournament) other than make a couple suggestions for new debate forums in the future. I have made quite clear to all admin that I dont intend to take any actions in the debate forum until the end of the tournament, or at least until I am eliminated.

Do you believe that admin for some reason wants me to win the tournament? If so, I would love to hear your reasoning... I get along with most of admin, but no better or worse than anyone else. Indeed, I have had various disagreements with most admin members at one time or another (hell, Ive had disagreements with most everyone on ATS at one time or another!) In fact, I know I have pissed off William a time or two (and I seem to remember you were involved with at least one of those incidents...), so I fail to believe he is holding me up as some kind of prodigy.

I personally cannot see any great advantage to making ANYONE a pushed champion (ask Banshee what that means) for any reason.

Anyway, if you really want to swap sides, fine... I am waiting for your opening statements.

Originally posted by dragonrider
Do you believe that admin for some reason wants me to win the tournament?

No dude. AV isn't like that.
He just doesn't like debating on something he doesn't believe in.

This whole board is biased.

AV, All of us are biased toward our own views, aren't we? I know I am! Now, DR has agreed to switch sides per your request, so go into that thread and duke it out!!!!!!

Sorry that this has gone this far. I don't like this crap anymore than you do, but this is my life. This is the way I am. I am out spoken. I have been this way my whole life. When I see it, I call it. If you no what I mean????

Look, this is my position:

I want to have fun. I could care less about winning. I had a lot of fun in the first debate with Gyrffen about the NWO issue. I only wish it had lasted longer. She could have ripped my arguement in half and I knew it. Did I freak out and say it isn't fair???

No!!!!

I played along. But this situation is different.

I know what is going on here. I know that Dragonrider is going to win this debate. I have known this from day one. Why do I think this???

Because he is the only one that the high staff likes. Except for David. But we all know that David couldn't debate his way out of a kindergarden class. Anyway.

The point is this:

I am not having fun.

I care little about any thing else. I want to enjoy myself. I can't do that in this situation. Why????

Here is why:

I won't argue that this world hasn't seen alien life. Why?

Because I know it isn't true. I am true. I don't lie. Lying is the worse of all guilts. Nothing eats at me more than lying, and or liars. So there is no way I can argue the point I was given.

I won't accept the other side of the topic because I don't think it is fair for everyone else. I don't want to be the baby who cries when he doesn't get what he wants. That is not me. I can swallow my pride when it comes down to that. Why???

Cause I try not to put myself over others. I have learned that sacrifice is more rewarding than consumption.

So no matter which debate arguement I decide to go with I will be in misery. Basically the only thing that will free me from this misery is to just give up. I would rather spend my time else where. I want to enjoy myself. Trying to prove this issue on one side or the other isn't going to get me that. Besides I would be forcing myself to do this. Something I don't want to do. I don't want to force myself into something I would rather ignore. When it comes down to it I just want to have fun. Continuing this rigged debate is not going to let me have fun.

Why do I say rigged????

Oh I don't know, you give me a reason. You are always able to supply one. Here is one you always use:

"It isn't a conspiracy against you"

I hear that one a lot.

It isn't a conspiracy. I know that. But you think that I do.

You think that I think that is so.

Well it may not be a conspiracy, but it is a bias. Dragonrider is going to win this debate no matter what. Why????

Cause he can get away with writers hijacking. He doesn't even write 70% of his posts on this board. He just copies and pastes. We all know that. What do you think that Illumatic's comment was all about???

He isn't dumb and either am I. But you know who is???

Those that ignore his crimes. You know that activity of his is illegal. People go to jail for that. So should he. Why should he be an exceptions???

I know why.

Because he is someone's little pet. That is why.

And that is why this is a biased debate.

That is why I quit.

That is all.

Enjoy the debate. Now Dragonrider can stop hiding behind his clan. Now he can speak for himself. Now he can show us his true person. Now he can go on a crusade. Now he can cut off my head. Cause it is obvious that he will be given the go ahead from his master.

Now I can finally get the warning that William has been waiting to dish on me. Go ahead, ban me. We all know the truth. We all know that you hate me William. You don't have to hide it anymore. Now I can join Ycon and Freemason and become another martyr of William's crusade against the radicals.

That is what I am. I am a radical. I am an outcast. I have been this ever since I took sides with Nans DESMICHELS. Ever since then I have been hated by everyone. And for what???

For speaking my mind. For being true to myself, and for being there for others. Others that get treated like hell. ATS is going down hill. Down hill fast. One of these days "THEY" are going to pull the plug, and all the criminals in the staff are going to go to jail. They are criminals, and they know it. The only reason ATS is still here is because it is an asset. It is politics. The plug will be pulled when the politicans in Washington and London learn to live by the law. Unfortonately they wouldn't know the law if it fu*ked them up the a**.(Sorry ladies, that was necassary. It is politics. I am sure you understand.)


Goodbye


Love,
Abraham Virtue

You should have realised that there was a possibility that you would have to debate something you were opposed to or even had direct experience of. The debate topics have been there for sometime now, why have you only just raised this issue??????