Toddler shoots two toddlers at a day care

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: Blaine91555

I have a lot of things about this... But am on way now to police and fire/civic center... Am gonna dig into this with officer friends...... Will advise from the inside.... Thanks

Thanks for the update stranger. Appreciate it.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Diabolical1972

Okay parents, sound off, trying to imagine how a three year old can heft, point and shoot any firearm?

Must have been left in the open, cocked and safety off. Trying to imagine that as well.

The story lacks too many details--a handgun can be a Deringer-style pistol or it can be a .50-caliber Desert Eagle, or a Taurus Judge revolver.

I have a 3.69315-year-old (yes, I did the math to be obnoxious), and she's quite strong, but I see your point--I have a hard time thinking that she could pick up, aim, and squeeze the trigger at one person accurately, let alone two (this is thinking about my single-stack S&W M&P 9mm, fully loaded with one in the chamber).

Of course, with the minimal details in this story, it could have been sitting on a table and was fired that way, instead of holding it and aiming...but again, that sounds very far-fetched.

Dare I say it, but this is looking like an accident caused by the homeowner more than done by a child. Three-year-olds don't tend to lie, so I'll be interested to see if they test people for signs of gunpowder residue. Hopefully there was in-house security cameras as well.

In any event, as a parent of a 3.69315-year-old and a responsible gunowner, this does infuriate me.

a reply to: Diabolical1972

Meh, its Detroit. Get 'em started when they are young!

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: face23785

I still remember the harsh but important lessons from my father in the late 60's just before I was given my first rifle.

Never leave it loaded and always keep it locked away.

It depends on the intended purpose of the weapon--you are speaking about hunting, and that's different than someone who owns a gun for home protection.

When I am awake at home, every gun that is not intended for home protection is in a locked safe, but I have a loaded firearm on my hip in a holster. I guarantee that for the entirety of my life with in-home children, the gun on my hip will be infinitely harder for them to access than the guns in my safe.

If a gun is never loaded and always locked away, having it for home protection is pointless.

I know that this is relatively off-topic, but one person's intended use of firearms is not everyone's, so to act like one way to keep them in a home is the only responsible way doesn't do anyone any favors. Regardless, though, it appears that this firearm was not secured properly at all, so it's really a moot point concerning preferred storage of a weapon.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Actually I think that sounds like a fairly reasonable possibility. If it was sitting on a table sideways with the safety off, depending on how heavy the trigger pull is on that particular gun it wouldn't take much for a toddler just exploring, being curious, to get their fingers inside the trigger guard and discharge a round. And as I said in a previous post, if they had their other hand in front of the muzzle, it's completely feasible for the round to have gone through their hand and struck another child.

This is why children should be taught about guns. There are safety programs that teach them not to touch them if they find them and go tell an adult. If you've never told your child anything about guns, with the arrogant and unrealistic certainty they'll never be around one, if you're wrong (imagine that) and they do see one of course they will want to touch it.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Dare I say it, but this is looking like an accident caused by the homeowner more than done by a child. Three-year-olds don't tend to lie, so I'll be interested to see if they test people for signs of gunpowder residue. Hopefully there was in-house security cameras as well.

In any event, as a parent of a 3.69315-year-old and a responsible gunowner, this does infuriate me.

Thats what I thought too, but hesitated to say it.

Its me...

Further...

More than likely it was one accidental discharge, by the owner, 'showing off' his pistol to the toddlers.

A few more detail on the incident:

The two boys appeared to have been injured from a single bullet Wednesday, police said. One boy was shot in the shoulder and the other boy suffered an injury to the face.

Officials trained in forensic interviewing of children talked to toddlers who witnessed what happened, he said.

Police haven't released information about how the handgun was stored or how the child got access to it.

Detroit Free Press

Dearborn police found several weapons inside the home where Samantha and Tim Eubank operated the day care.

Neighbors said they often saw many children running around at the home, but the Department of Health and Human Services said it never received a complaint or tip that a daycare was operating at the home.

That comment seems to imply that it may have been an unlicensed daycare.

Excobedo said her sister is the mother of six children who took family and friends' children into her unlicensed day care.

And that seems to confirm that they're calling it an unlicensed daycare.

Click On Detroit
This second link is a pretty good one, with interviews with neighbors and family members and much more information than is in the link in the OP.

a reply to: intrptr

Well, it does seem to be one discharge that shot one in the shoulder and probably passed through the shoulder and hit the second one in the face.

This Click On Detroit link has good info, but doesn't specify if they tested anyone for gunshot residue.

a reply to: face23785

check my other links above this one...one child was shot in (and, I assume, through) the shoulder and the same bullet then struck another child in the face

Bad situation.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Ah my mistake, I hadn't read any further details beyond what was reported yesterday. Yes, I agree, no matter how/where they were shot, it's terrible news.

Odds this will get way more news coverage than the last how many black children shot in inner cities?

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: intrptr

Well, it does seem to be one discharge that shot one in the shoulder and probably passed through the shoulder and hit the second one in the face.

This Click On Detroit link has good info, but doesn't specify if they tested anyone for gunshot residue.

I was right, two accidental discharges are unlikely. They will find out who pulled the trigger eventually, if they don't know already. Leave it to the media to omit or fabricate details...

originally posted by: face23785
Odds this will get way more news coverage than the last how many black children shot in inner cities?

Not interested in playing that game.

a reply to: intrptr

I prefer when we agree than when we bicker.

a reply to: intrptr

I can star that post. I mean, god forbid they actually investigate or get details beyond copy/pasting an AP report.

a reply to: Diabolical1972

UPDATE from Dearborn:

I asked at the station. Obviously theres a lot more, but basically....there was known hunting long guns the wife knew about...told the husband NO HANDGUNS. So she supposedly didnt know. They took more than 1 handgun as well.

It was left on a nightstand and it was their kid who knew it was ther, got it and used it. This kinda means the wife KNEW about the handguns so the not wanting them in the house is b.s.

Now...if they WERENT purchased legally....and/or not registered after purchase at the P.D. like its supposed to....it was because he knew they were running an illegal daycare. As well...the Dearborn police and Chief Haddad said they (the P.D.) had previous "contacts" with the family.

She is listed as being "self-employed" and the neighbors complained about her 6+ kids running around with only the older ones watching.

More to follow....Im off till Monday...will cruise thru the P.D. Monday......

MS
EMT/ERT

a reply to: mysterioustranger



ok thanks. that's crazy. Their own kid. ugh.

Wow I read the updates. I wouldn't wish this on anyone no matter how irresponsible they were. I've thought about those babies whoever they are all night. I really hope they will recover fully.

-Alee

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Diabolical1972

Okay parents, sound off, trying to imagine how a three year old can heft, point and shoot any firearm?

Must have been left in the open, cocked and safety off. Trying to imagine that as well.

Agreed. This gun must have been easily reached and ready to fire.
That is gross negligence on the part of a daycare worker.

originally posted by: NerdGoddess
Wow I read the updates. I wouldn't wish this on anyone no matter how irresponsible they were. I've thought about those babies whoever they are all night. I really hope they will recover fully.

-Alee

I wouldn't wish it on anyone either, but the fact remains they caused this and they need to be held accountable.