Coroner report on Otto Warmbier shows no evidence indicating torture

originally posted by: Nyiah
Everybody seems hung up on & confused by something I understood plain as day here. Let me break it down again (because the OP already did, but seems folks missed it)

former allegedly USA

Try reading it as this instead:

former allegedly United States of America

All he did was call out the social division here. We're not exactly very "united", so the name fits as a "former", because "united" no longer reflects the citizens.

Thank you!

a reply to: DerBeobachter

I'm glad this thread was reopened, it is very interesting and strange, grief does strange things to people, not sure about causing hallucinations though as another member has speculated.

I'm not sure we will ever see or hear the truth of the matter.

He was a healthy young adult when he was arrested in NK for attempting to steal a poster. Within a year, he had become emaciated, fallen into a coma, and died shortly after. It’s safe to say he was tortured.

a reply to: Health

Its not safe to say or assume ANY such thing.

First of all, you must have meant emaciated, since emancipated would have been a very positive outcome.

Second, there are many ways by which a person may end up in a coma, none of which have anything to do with being maltreated. Although there are many ways a person might end up in a coma through mistreatment, it is not necessarily the case, and to assume it is the case without any particular and specific evidence to back it up, is entirely presumptive and unsupportable. The fellow could have caught a virus, had an aneurysm, had a stroke (unusual at his age, but not unheard of), or any one of a huge array of possible causes, having nothing to do with physical violence having been enacted upon him.

Now, we all know that North Korea has a bad reputation for human rights violations toward its own people, and that does play into what is POSSIBLY the case... but there is, as of yet, no reason to ASSUME anything, least of all, a reason to assume something, but state it as fact, as you have above.

I think we have to agree on the definition of torture.. I don’t think he was water boarded or beaten daily.. I think we can agree Otto felt like he was being tortured, especially since he became so sick and clearly didn’t have good healthcare. It’s very unlikely that a healthy young adult would die so quickly from a natural cause without terrible conditions, which is what I’m considering as torture.

a reply to: Health

I cannot agree on a definition of torture which contains none.

Look, if the lad was actually tortured, you know, beaten, had his teeth torn out, was waterboarded, or electrocuted, or was placed in stress positions for weeks on end, or what have you, there would be physical markers of that torture, either on the body itself in the form of scars, broken bones, contusions, missing teeth and the like, or markers in the blood that the body was under significant and prolonged stress.

If those markers are present, they should be reported. If they are not, that too should be reported, and an investigation into how any discrepancies between the parents story and the coroners story came about. But torture is only what it is, not what it is not.

a reply to: DerBeobachter

Here's the key Dr. Sammarco’s examination did not find signs of torture but could not rule out the possibility. But when they looked at CT scans they could see his brain was starved of oxygen and large tracts of his brain had died.

Now could thus happen by accident sure it could he could have been drowning in a swimming pool or alternative someone held a pillow to his face. And their is the problem they cant determine the cause.

So because we can't get alone on the Internet means that we are not "united" when if you take your eyes off the screen and actually look up. We get along quite well. Except for the few that are completely insane.

Former allegedly USA....coming from a foreigner...lol