Attention ATS - this is the reason we are fundamentally scared of CLOWNS.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. I think clowns
are an admonisher of the Old Gods of laughter and chaos,
Eris, Kek, Comus etc. Primeval entities that take consciousness
and the endless human endeavour of the pursuit of finding and imposing
order onto our perceived reality, and laugh in it's face
and manifest as the physical antithesis of the logos.

I think the modern cult of kek and the gaining popularity
of worshiping old gods of discord and practice of chaos magic
are manifesting in the disorder of the world we see today.

Also, i'm personally afraid of clowns because of John Wayne Gacy,
the thought of having a drink with someone and
being handcuffed, raped, murdered and stuffed in a crawl space
leave me with a more immediate "screw that noise" reaction towards clowns.

(excuse the disjointed stream of consciousness, it's six in the morning here and
I just woke)

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

So, labeling someone as a "Clown" is like the ultimate insult?

It seems the "clown" threads are started a bit earlier this year. Usually it's closer to Halloween.

a reply to: FamCore

PS How did you possibly think of this?

I have a bizarre mind!

But in all seriousness, my mind seems to be good at picking ideas out of thin air. I have a high 'Creative Quotient' IQ apparently (not had it tested), and a reasonable 'normal' IQ of around 145.

My wife doesn't seem to think I'm a genius, though I can't see why as I do make a point of reminding her frequently!

Clowns creep me out because they are creepy, #1 rule don`t trust anyone that goes to such lengths just to get attention or to get close to kids. That`s a creepy hobby, I`m half compelled to say "kick him in his big red stupid nose".

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Clowns are indigenous. They were not invented as late as the OP says. They have been with us since the very beginning.

They have an anthropological purpose (social purpose) at least originally. The Native Americans had their Contraries and other Sacred Performers as African indigenous people had their Trickster performers. They were shamanic and very scary indeed; sacred clowns. The Celts had the Minstrels. Robert Graves writes about these black faced mystics (where the black facing for Morris Dancers originates)in his great work "The White Goddess". I have written about clowns many times here at ATS as elsewhere. Actors originate from the sacred performers who used to enact the behavior of the Heavens, culture heroes and heroines, Gods and Goddesses, animals. Wiccans and other pagans perform spiritually to this very day.

Here's a pic from a thread the other day that I included:


Lady Trickster Clown.

Freddy Kruger, Jason, Mike all come from this archetype. Horror has always been a part of us socially. The Native American Contraries were very scary and even performed acts of a pornographic nature. I think they are here to keep us tough in this life. Too much snowflake does not help us when we are having to keep the balls to go on surviving.

I watch horror to keep me tough psychologically as I have a tendency to be a bit fragile myself. It helps no end. After my breakdown I started watching horror and by Jove it works.

Everything is here for a reason:



Johnny Depp's performance of Tonto is based on the Contrary phenomenon. Johnny knows a lot about their culture:




Miss Mary Quite Contrary


Black facing is ancient. The Minstrels of old would put ember black face paint on.

Look, here in India, the Agori, another manifestation of the sacred Minstrel in another cultural guise. The Agori have real human skull bowls to make their mix for the chillum, to eat from and to drink from. They cover themselves in HUMAN CREMATION ASHES and live in grave yards. They are sacred Hindu Kali Priests.



OP, sorry but there is a little bit more to it than just pareidolia*.

*Pareidolia is a type of apophenia, which is a more generalized term for seeing patterns in random data. Some common examples are seeing a likeness of Jesus in the clouds or an image of a man on the surface of the moon.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

There was a very important thing I learned about the social purpose of clowns that is important to us in this age:

Clowns give us something to laugh at, to ridicule, to treat with contempt. The clown wants us to do this. They want us to be naughty just for a while in their presence.

I think we troll inappropriately because we do not have enough of an outlet. I tell you all the movie stars, famous corporate people, celebrities, politicians would not be treated with contempt so if we had more clearly marked clowns for us to ridicule and make fun of. It is a sacred thing, a sacred duty, worthy of great respect because it is bringing psychological relief to people you see.

Yes, lots more clownery and even some quite controversial performances, too. In our modern life we need it and I think we would not attack the famous people so. You see, it is like these people are sticking out and do tend to have more dramatic physical appearances than the norm; most people are behaving and reacting unconsciously to it. It is like people half perceive them as contraries and act accordingly. Nooo, people. It is not like that. Clowns clearly mark themselves out with all the make up and crazy image.

In an ideal world I would love to have been a clown. That's really what Jim Morrison was up to with you guys. He could be very lewd on stage (like a Contrary). He wanted to bring you some freedom and relief at his shows; a bit of craziness just for a while. He wanted to to take us away from the ordinary and encourage fresh thought in the cradles of our skulls (image borrowed from Bob Dylan).

Now, here is the most "CONTRO"versial thing of all: Christ had to be a clown for you. Christ had to take all the projections of people's guilt and His performance was a literal human sacrifice. He had to act out quite literally the Divine Drama. I wrote a thread about it. Why did you think I called it "The Messiah Drama"?




To keep us healthy we need comedy. Infantile comedy is not enough for an adult. We need performance and sometimes it's good when it is horrifying, pornographic, dark comedy. Humans need relief because their lives have to be very hard and very controlled these days. Clowns are clearly marked out and I hope we pay the Piper for her/his/their performance. Best we do rather than face their DARK SIDE: Trick or treat, my friends???

Bwahhahahahahaha!!!

Well, the OP presents an interesting hypothesis I've never heard before!

I always thought clowns, throughout time, have always been part of societies as a way of commenting on and bringing to awareness our less conscious behaviors and contradictions, as individuals and a collective.

Just as comedians today do (George Carlin, for example...), the jester had the ability to show a king his own mistakes and foolishness in a way that could "get in the backdoor" as I tend to consider it - humor, poetry, music, dance and body language can sometimes bypass the conscious awareness, allowing messages to be stimulated to arise from the unconscious.

We laugh at a silly behavior or joke, but later it slowly dawns on us that it is ourselves who are the fools.
The jester is a mirror of our shadow.

Seeing our faults and follies is sometimes hard, terrifying even. Imagine if you suddenly became aware one day that you had caused someone intense anguish and trauma for the rest of ther lives... perhaps a loved one, your child, your parent, a lover. Many go through their whole lives not even knowing they have done such a thing.
The day they find out they are the monster is a bad day indeed.
The clown that silently holds that up with a dance and a stumble, a gesture and a horn, can make you giggle at first, until the message sinks in ....

Ultimately growth, healing and change isn't possible without such realizations. We need clowns - as individuals and as a society. We need the artists that find indirect ways to bring our shadows back to us.

When you mature, you sometimes become more adept at owning your weaknesses and faults, facing them and dealing with them, so the clown seems like less of a threat.

I think that was also the point Stephen King meant to bring about in the ending of his book, IT, which I found distasteful when I read it (did they include that in the movie this time???) . If you know what I am talking about, I think he meant to illustrate the transformation from child to adult, the integration and bringing together of YIn and Yang (darkness and light, shadow and the ego...).

While at the same time, poking at our cultures foolish taboos about sex .... I am painfully aware of that when I realize how much it troubled me and how I am not even writing clearly what that scene was!
What a clown, that Stephen!

a reply to: Bluesma

That came through loud and clear. Very well written. Makes total sense. Hope you are happy. Good to see you are still around.

I have a tank of helium and red balloons and fortunately a wife with no sense of humor. So I brought them to work early this morning. I work with a lot of people with no sense of humor like my wife.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment


LOKI..... the Trickster god..... the modern 'clown' grease-paint/Kabuki stereotype evolved later




LOKI - the Norse Trickster God (Norse mythology)
www.godchecker.com › Norse mythology › Norse Gods list

One of the world’s major Trickster Gods, in his early days LOKI was a rascal; crafty, sneaky, silly and malicious — a Loki The Lad. The son of two giants, LAUFEY and FARBAUTI, he was so outrageously mischievous that he even sneaked his way into becoming a God.


Loki was not the prototype trickster, the Egyptians, Sumerians had such an entity passed down from even earlier cultures (pre ice age Atlantis ?)

just my 2 cents, but your OP was a

It's the only way...

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

I think we're scared of them because we can't see their faces, just like I'm scared of the masked guy standing in the bank with me... oh wait...

I'll tell you why clowns creep us out.

They are outdated.

For example. Anyone that goes around dressed like a , hhhhmmmmmmmmmmm, let's see..like Tom Cruise in Interview with the Vampire. Now try and throw really crappy humor on top of that. It's cringy. And sooner or later, it becomes creepy.


It's just not funny anymore.


That is it.

a reply to: RazorV66

Never seen Clownhouse...I looked for it on Netflix and Amazon Video....nothing but the full movie is on YouTube lol
I will check it out.

Definitely do. There's a pretty #d up back story to that film, too.

Funny thing about Arachnophobia...I saw it years ago but after I watched it, I didn't seem to have as much fear of spiders as before I watched it.

As a kid, I was terrified of spiders, and with good reason. When Arachnophobia came out I saw it in the theaters, and it freaked me out. I also watched it again years later and it didn't have the same effect on me; of course, I was no longer as afraid of spiders anymore either, but the movie was creepy simply by how the spiders moved in the closeups.

a reply to: Sahabi

Fear is likely inherited. Clowns do not bother me, neither do snakes, heights, or other common fears.

What does scare me to the point of revulsion is spiders, bugs, swarms of bugs and repeating holes. I bet one of my ancestors survived something insect related

When I asked a friend why she was afraid of clowns, she said they are unnatural and explained why.
Clowns, with their dark, large painted on eyes, red big nose and lips, pale skin and swollen feet, look like someone who could be diseased.
Perhaps her ancestors survived a horrible plague that left the victims swollen.

Very cool OP.

I always saw clowns as wearing a kind of death mask. The extended bellies are the corpse bloating. The white makeup the lack of blood.

originally posted by: collietta
a reply to: Sahabi

Fear is likely inherited. Clowns do not bother me, neither do snakes, heights, or other common fears.

What does scare me to the point of revulsion is spiders, bugs, swarms of bugs and repeating holes. I bet one of my ancestors survived something insect related

What about a big spider wearing a clown suit?

I do not remember where I read this but I do not have access to my library to go digging around so this synopsis will have to do.

The Bubonic Plague hit in waves across Europe during the middle ages. Since most citizens were illiterate there had to be a method of communicating "Stay away from this neighborhood! Here be The Black Death!"

Not knowing what was causing The Plague, the doctors took to fumigating houses. First, they would drape a red and white striped cloth over the infected dwelling sealing it off (like the barber pole). They would then burn various things including cinnabar and mercury in attempts to kill any rodents present. To keep people away, a mime was put at the corner dressed as to mimic a Plague victim. The polka dots represent the bulbous on the victim's body. The face painted white like a skull. The red nose indicating blood.

The clown was a billboard indicating a section of town where Plague had appeared for those that could not read letters.

There is a deep, ingrained fear of clowns because there is a deep, ingrained fear of The Plague and death.

Clowns ain't funny! Neither is a circus if you look at it this way.

eta: I think it was Xeroxed from a book about the plague for Literature of The Middle Ages class that the info came from.