A Boom in Confederate Monuments, on Private Land

a reply to: Asktheanimals

nearly all of them were paid for with private donations,

No offense, but do you have any links for that? You know how it is w/unsourced claims, right? Not to mention, the monuments I'm against are the ones on public lands, as I've previously mentioned. Tax payer dollars go towards the upkeep of that public property, from lawn maintenance to security to clean up to blah blah blah. So I'm not seeing how this refutes my point even if it were true.

Also, there are/were confederate monuments in 31 States. Only 11 states were even in the confederacy so it's not like they were actually honoring their own State history. And alot of the pro-confederate crap happened during the Civil Rights movement and the years leading up to it. This includes things like: 1) the "Mount Rushmore of the Confederacy" at Stone Mountain, which was finished in 1960; 2) Georgia redesigning its state flag in 1956 to include the Confederate battle flag; and 3) South Carolina placing the flag atop its capitol building in 1962 (this article has all of the points from my paragraph).

This reinforces my earlier point about today's conservatives supporting the racist Democrats of the past and their failed country. While the racist Southern Democrats who were pro-KKK, pro-Jim Crow, and pro-Confederacy were fighting against the Civil Rights Movement and to keep segregation with policies like "the Massive Resistance", their politicians and leadership were also putting up more and more pro-confederacy monuments in defiance.

Even former-Democrats like Sen. Strom Thurmond held the longest filibuster in US history (24hrs plus) to oppose the 1957 Civil Rights Act. He and his allies also opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (which ended forced racial segregation here) & the Voting Rights Act of 1965 (which finally allowed African Americans the right to vote). Unsurprisingly, Thurmond was one of the many Democrats who switched over to the Republican Party in 1964, where he stayed until his death as a conservative hero in 2003. (all found at his wikipedia page) Then the "Southern Strategy" was born, which helped solidify the massive swap between disenchanted southern Democrats and liberal & pro-civil rights Republicans.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I have to wonder, if the "democrats became republican and republicans became democrats" was accurate, then there would be a list of all the politicians who switched party, wouldn't there?

Just curious.

So many say it, but I have yet to see a chart or even an excel spreadsheet that followed all southern political figures to see if they switched parties during the Civil Rights era.

You'd think it would be an easy thing to google.

Will have to investigate. . . . .

Everyone gets to choose their own heroes.
Since they already have statues it looks like they were chosen by others long ago.
These statues embody the suffering of millions, not just the guy whose image happens to be on the horse; it stands for a whole half of the country and for 4 short years was a nation.

Black men fought by the thousands for the South, willingly.
It was their home too and they fought for their own reasons.
These symbols represent their sacrifices too.

The Civil War defined our country.
Those were my ancestors.
I won't disclaim my own family any more than I would expect you to disown yours
I can't stand in judgement of those who hearts I never knew.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

So does this mean only Union monuments will be allowed on public property?
I'd bet there are far more Union statues and monuments than Confederate.
They had a lot more money than the South to spend on such things.

en.wikipedia.org...

If it appears there are more Confederate monuments it might be because nobody put together a complete list - there's only 24 sources for this entry. The first entry in Wikipedia or CSA monuments is the SPLC document followed by nearly 500 sources.

I lived in NY for 13 years, nearly every county has one for their men who served.

originally posted by: muzzleflash
This topic seems to bring out the negativity in nearly everyone. Wow...

The Archons got to keep their human livestock stirred up with these controversies so we can provide them with the negative emotional sustenance they crave .........(Just kidding)


Maybe

originally posted by: kyleplatinum

originally posted by: muzzleflash
This topic seems to bring out the negativity in nearly everyone. Wow...

This is because history is important whether folks like it or not, good or bad. It is our history.

History is important, yes, but does that mean Germany should have and pay for statues of Goebbels and Hitler all around the country because history?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

there was this pinhead I talked to the other day who thought that all the Civil war statues that went up in the 1960 were done so to poke at the black man due to civil rights. What a tool. It's like he can't do math. 100 year anniversary of the Civil war. Derp. He felt kind of dumb when I explained that to him. Now he understands that he was used, like a tool, by the MSM.

Pennsylvania has two Confederate monuments outside of the Gettysburg National Cemetery.

Both are located in Fulton County, which is my place of birth.

One is a memorial marker placed on the graves of two Confederate soldiers that were killed there just before the Battle of Gettysburg in 1863. It was dedicated by the Daughters of the Confederacy in the 1920's.
The other is a Pennsylvania State Historical Marker commemorating the last Confederate bivouac north of the Mason Dixon Line.

Explore PA History Confederate dead.
Waymarking.com Last Confederate bivouac.

Recently, the US Senator Bob Casey (D-PA) called for these markers to be removed.
Herald Mail

U.S. Sen. Bob Casey, D-Pa., said two monuments in McConnellsburg that commemorate Confederate soldiers don't belong in the state. "If it were up to me, we wouldn't have them. I don't decide that," Casey said, saying he doesn't anticipate national legislation about monuments.

One is basically a grave marker, the other is a historical plaque marking the end of Confederate raids in the North.... hardly glorifying racism.
Locals in Fulton County are against removing the markers, saying that they have historical value.

Ha ha... Instead of seeing 1 or 2 near your local government buildings, they will be everywhere now. Irony.

a reply to: xuenchen

Traitors...

Keep telling yourself that, bucko. 1776 and 1860, not even a 100 years and you have full blown tyranny. Here's a trivia question... name 1 US constition agreement that Lincoln did not strip.

For 1.) US Constition allowed the states, in this case, the South to pull from the government- that's not being a traitor, it's a right.

2.) Abraham arrested 1000s of news reporters in war times to keep dumbing down his union misfits

3.) Abraham sent war ships to SC after they rightfully seceeded in union, doing so without congress.

4.) Abraham sent soldiers to states under martial law.

5.) Union troops illegal seized land own by southerners.

6.) Union troops vandalized and burnt down homes after plundering their food source.

Literally EVERYTHING he said in his inauguration was a lie. He said 1.) would not abolish slavery 2.) believed in states rights 3.) would not send troops into South, which is now a sovereign country. That was his 3 big promises.

His speech: “I have NO PURPOSE, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution OF SLAVERY in the United States WHERE IT EXISTS. I believe I have NO LAWFUL RIGHT TO DO SO, and I have NO INCLINATION TO DO SO. Those who nominated and elected me did so WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE that I had made this and many SIMILAR DECLARATIONS and had NEVER RECANTED THEM..” 1.) no abolition of slavery as it was protected under US Constition. South didn't invent slavery, no ships waving a Battle Flag went to foreign soil, they was purchased by Union at $25,000 a pop.

“That the rights of the States, and ESPECIALLY THE RIGHT OF EACH STATE to ORDER AND CONTROL IT'S OWN DOMESTIC INSTITUTIONS (like.. slavery?) according to its OWN JUDGMENT EXCLUSIVELY, is ESSENTIAL TO THAT BALANCE OF POWER on which the PERFECTION and ENDURANCE of our POLITICAL FABRIC DEPEND.”
2.) Observing States rights. The E.P or free slaves Bill wasn't acknowledged here. Imagine if we passed a bill to end slavery in Africa.. oh we cant, that's a different country. Sounds dumb? South had a President and a Vice President making it a country. Regardless, state rights, STATE RIGHTS!

“and we DENOUNCE the LAWLESS INVASION by ARMED FORCES of the soil of ANY STATE or TERRITORY, NO MATTER WHAT PRETEXT, as among THE GRAVEST CRIMES.” - Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861. 3.) lol Sure. That's why when SC militia at Fort Sumter asked them to leave and fed them for 30 days he sent fleet of ships into harbor before South opened fire. You can still read letters today of how Lincoln told guy in command of Fort to hold it off until backup arrives.



“ The real causes of the dissatisfaction in the South with the North, are in the unjust taxation and expenditure of the taxes by the government of the United States, and in the revolution the North has effected in this government from a confederate republic, to a national sectional despotism.” - Charleston Mercury, Nov.3 1860.

“The North was mad and blind; it would not let us govern ourselves. and so the war came and now it must go on till the last man of this generation falls in his tracks, and his children seize the musket and fight our battle. Unless you acknowledge our right to self government. We are not fighting for slavery. We are fighting for Independence, and that, or extermination.” President Jefferson Davis, C.S.A (tombstone)

“The Tariff question, again enters largely, more largely than is commonly supposed; into the irritated and aggregate feelings of the Southerners. And it cannot be denied that in this matter they have both a serious injury and an unconstitutional injustice to resent… All Northern products are now protected; and the Morrill Tariff is a very masterpiece of folly and injustice.” James Spencer, British Cotton Trader & Trade Adviser, Scottish Journal

“The Northern onslaught upon slavery was no more than a piece of specious humbug designed to conceal its desire for economic control of the Southern states.” Charles Dickens

“Everyone still professes to the disapproval of slavery. Of course, so in the can't of the day runs, slavery is a very dreadful thing, and everybody the South above all, would be glad to see it abolished; but slavery has nothing to do with the present war.” - British Correspondent “The Outlook of the War”

“As a rule, the great mass of the public expenditures were made from the North, not in the South, so that Southerners found themselves doubly taxed; taxed first for the benefit of the Northern manufacturers, and then in disbursement of the public funds, denied an equal participation in the benefits accruing therefrom.” The Weekly Athenaeum, May 1865

“Since therefore, the abolition of slavery never appeared in the platform of any great political party, since the only appeal ever made to the electorate on that issue was scornfully repulsed, since the spokesman of the Republicans empathetically declared that his party never intended to interfere with slavery in any shape or form, it seems reasonable to assume that the institution of slavery was not fundamental issue during the epoch preceding the bombardment of Fort Sumter.” - Charles Beard

Nathan B. Forrest after hearing Robert E. Lee's surrendered he follows pursuit. He gives in my opinion the best speech ever to his own men that show great detail what war was about.

Civil war, such as you have just passed through naturally engenders feelings of animosity, hatred, and revenge. It is our duty to divest ourselves of all such feelings; and as far as it is in our power to do so, to cultivate friendly feelings towards those with whom we have so long contended, and heretofore so widely, but honestly, differed. Neighborhood feuds, personal animosities, and private differences should be blotted out; and, when you return home, a manly, straightforward course of conduct will secure the respect of your enemies. Whatever your responsibilities may be to Government, to society, or to individuals meet them like men.

The attempt made to establish a separate and independent Confederation has failed;
but the consciousness of having done your duty faithfully, and to the end, will, in some measure, repay for the hardships you have undergone. In bidding you farewell, rest assured that you carry with you my best wishes for your future welfare and happiness. Without, in any way, referring to the merits of the Cause in which we have been engaged, your courage and determination, as exhibited on many hard-fought fields, has elicited the respect and admiration of friend and foe. And I now cheerfully and gratefully acknowledge my indebtedness to the officers and men of my command whose zeal, fidelity and unflinching bravery have been the great source of my past success in arms.

I have never, on the field of battle, sent you where I was unwilling to go myself; nor would I now advise you to a course which I felt myself unwilling to pursue. You have been good soldiers, you can be good citizens. Obey the laws, preserve your honor, and the Government to which you have surrendered can afford to be, and will be, magnanimous.
— N.B. Forrest, Lieut.-General
Headquarters, Forrest's Cavalry Corps
Gainesville, Alabama
May 9, 1865.

We are not traitors, we exercised our rights to seceed. We did not agree to a 40-48% income tax. And after the war we sucked it up and accepted defeat like men against a radical government and a tyrant. We didn't do anything our founders fathers would have done.

a reply to: Iostsheep

Well as for me, I'm kinda "neutral" on the Civil War thing.

I had ancestors on both sides.

One was killed in a battle (he was a Union soldier).

The other was an officer in a Confederate Cherokee regiment in the Oklahoma Territory.

Cool info in your post just the same.

a reply to: Iostsheep

"History is written by the victor"

a reply to: xuenchen

Thank you. I also had a torn family over the war. That's why we commemorate it, it was "the brother war. neighbor against neighbor, brother against brother, the war that nobody one." -Johnny Cash "God bless Robert E. Lee"

I think most want to buy into crap without own research. As post above me stating victors wrote history. It's very true.. even when victors declassified things it's still not facts in school. School loves sugar coating history; like Vietnam attacked first, was no knowledge Japan would attack pearl harbor, and God had something to do with Titanic sinking. Even news push myths like it's going out of style such as "blacks never fought for confederates". Wrong. Google Black Confederate Soldiers and most will say its a myth regardless of it being a recording saying they'd pick gun back up and rejoin. lol

Obama is reasoning behind this race war clash. I can pull up Clinton's using rebel flag, Jimmy Carter, John F Kennedy, Al Gore.. wasn't until Obama it became an issue. Battle Flag is actually a symbol of "anti fascism" in most countries such as South America, Central America.. town in Brazil has a National celebration to South and saw them some of greatest, kindest people ever lived.. The Confederatos! ichef-1.bbci.co.uk... (so racist to marry black and brown women! argh! those rascist!)

Christian Ethiopian Freedom Fighters; budswebs.homeip.net...

Germans during fall of Berlin Wall;
micmovement.com...

Ireland used it to inspire the North to seceed from UK Union. Wave it as a Battle Flag to UK oppressors

Italy or Spain, I forget which one, flys it to represent their own civil war from North. You go anywhere and wave a US flag someone will identify it as a big bully oppressive nation, you can wave the Confederate flag and they love you. lol They see it as completely opposite..

Strange how Russia had to send ships to keep France, Germany, and England from helping the South. Most of world was appalled at the time. Canada was so worried about North being so aggressive they considered building a wall fearing they was next. Maryland's state song identifies Abraham as a Tyrant. The slaves in south hated North more than slave masters. "Hang ol Abe on Sour Apple Tree!" It's insane!

If South would had won, slavery would have gone anyway. It wasn't Lincoln, it was the time. You look at census you see only 5-6% owned slaves in South, 3000 of which was black men lol you look previously it was actually way higher. It was dying out.

“I never did care much for politics, but I've always been for the south.I love the southland”
-Former slave Sam Ward Arkansas Slave Narratives

“Yes mam, de days on de plantation wuz de happy days..he hated de yankees for killing massa Tom. In fact we all hated de yankees”
-Former slave David Blunt North Carolina Slave narratives

“Us was confederates all de while...but de yankees,dey diden't know dat we was confederates”
-Former slave James Gill Arkansas Slave Narratives

It is undoubtedly true that, notwithstanding the strenuous efforts of abolitionist, the Negroes bear the yoke (slavery) cheerfully and heartily join their fortunes to those of their master's in the struggle in which they are engaged.” Greensborough NCs PATRIOT (Feb.6,1862)


“No indication has been given of any desire to accept liberty as a permanency. Their attachment to their master's and families to which they belong do not seem to diminish and there are large numbers of them if not thousands of them in the neighborhood who have not come into the fort at all.” New Bern Weekly Progress Sept.7, 1861 and in Winston Salems Daily Press Jan 3,1862.


“..at the awful conditions of the Negroes.. and justice is outraged by sending them away from their homes. They huddle together in very foul places, suffering and dying from exposure and disease” [1] “they all want to go home.. and if the government would allow it, they would all go back.” [2]
Quoted Boston Courier Greensboro, NC Patriot April 16th, 1863
Quoted the Asheville News, April 16th, 1863.


The emancipated slaves, in the coming North, left old associations behind them, and the love for the past was so strong that they could find little beauty in the new life so suddenly opened to them. Thousands of the disappointed huddled together in camps, fretted and pinned like children for the “good ole times”. In visiting them… they would crowd around me with pitiful stories of distress. Often I heard them declare that they would rather go back to slavery in the south and be with their old masters than to enjoy freedom in the North. I believe they were sincere in their declarations.” - Behind the Scenes: 30 years a slave and 4 years in the White House

They had to literally stop allowing slaves to come to North because half would run back and tell Confederates or would lead Unionist into traps. Take wild guess how many blacks were charged with war crimes. There was never a war, to me, that was so interesting..

One more fun fact; Nathan B. Forrest had minimal of 20-25% slaves. 18 mo before war ended he was satisfied war would favor the North. He feared his 45 slaves would be captured and not be allowed freedom, signed their papers and told em to go home. 20-25 of them stayed including the great decorated black confederate, former slave Wreight Withlow.

I love America, I love the south.. but boy do I hate ignorant people who won't accept basic facts that civil war only ended it in south and presidents like Grant had slaves in WH after Lincoln. lol

a reply to: Iostsheep

See that is a lot of words to justify people owning other people. Want to know how I know you are wrong? Every single article of succession says you are wrong. Each state. Every one of them. Sorry.

To stay on topic, good on them. If they want to remember their slave owning heritage, that's on them. We don't need that crap in public. It allows the issues to become obfuscated into states rights/economic disparity/etc (like above) when the simple matter is a bunch of cretinous, treasonous, dbags wanted to own people so bad they went to war for it. To quote another poster in this thread "These statues embody the suffering of millions" of black people (fixed that for you).

My favorite part about this is how everyone calls the South losers, like losing a war somehow equates to you being wrong or right. America herself would have lost the war against Britain if not for a good bit of luck and the French.

I'll throw out one of my favorite quotes; "May have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Proceed to call me a Rebel sympathizer.

Not wanting to stray off topic eh

Again, If you want to erect or house a statue of someone I find morally repulsive that is 100% your right to do so. No doubt you may find I do things that you may not agree with. I will support your right to do so 100%. Just like its my right to not associate / do business / or acknowledge your business / home / person etc.

Its really that simple.