Arkema says workers still on site at foundering chemical plant in Crosby - (Plant has been evacuated

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Just tell me the generators are On A Hill??? I have concerns about water being held back by levees, reservoirs and river embankments for obvious reasons. Glad you are keeping an eye on all these toxic developments. Remember to take care of you this time though, unfortunately! Our thoughts are with you.

a reply to: DancedWithWolves

The Colorado river crested at about 54 feet near La Grange but water levels have been coming down for some time now.
It takes too long to restart a Nuclear power plant after a complete shut down (unless there is a real emergency).

Even the reservoir in Houston that is over topping the levee is now seeing some sunshine.

Here's the lastest article about Arkema.

Residents are reporting unbearable smells like burnt rubber with a hint of metallic.

That doesn't sound good.
www.cbsnews.com...

The chemical company Arkemo CEO says there's no way to prevent its Texas plant from exploding, in a statement being reported by Reuters.

Dear God(ess)

No

Richard Rowe, who is chief executive of the company's North America unit, told reporters the company expects chemicals on site to catch fire or explode within the next six days. He said the company has no way to prevent a fire or potential explosion near the plant that is swamped by about six feet (1.83 m) of water. (Reporting by David Shepardson in Washington)

This clip of another kind of plant, a fertilizer plant, burning in Texas in 2013, reminds us to get away now. Thanks to Rachel Maddow for helping raise the alarm tonight.



Reuters

originally posted by: RickyD
Well well...so another natural disaster and the weak link again appears to be the generators that no one thought would be flooded. Sounds like a certain nuclear plant in Japan. Maybe at some point someone will wake up and start pushing for regulations that ensure that back up generators for hazardous situations like this are able to function in flooding or other disaster scenarios even if it is unheard of to have such disasters. Jesus us humans can be so dumb.

yeah. it makes you wonder how much the guy got paid who decided it was a good idea to put the generators in a place that was susceptible to flooding.
when I worked in a hospital in the late 1980`s I learned that the generators were below ground level, the first thing that I thought was, what happens if there`s a flood, the generators will be rendered useless before the power lines even go out.

it really does make you question whether people with degrees really do know what they are doing. presumably it was people with engineering degrees who decided that placing emergency generators in flood areas was a good idea.

a reply to: Tardacus

Sure does.

The past has proven that the location being discussed doesn't work well in a flood prone area.

a reply to: Tardacus

If it's anything like another occurrence, you would also likely find that lead engineers resigned in protest over design flaws allowed to stay operational in the market, somewhere along the line. There is lots of blame, and greed, to share, in catastrophic events. Too much.

it's my understanding that it's illegal in Texas to enact local fire codes that might keep a chemical plant away from say, senior housing or schools, etc.? Someone more versed might be able to shed more light.

More importantly right now though...I'm not sure what is on the ground in the evacuation radius, so that's very concerning. Are people out? (UPDATE: No, some people are still there. )

What are the monitoring gauge readings in the command post? Is any of it burning already? UPDATE: They can't even monitor it all.

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: Tardacus

Sure does.

The past has proven that the location being discussed doesn't work well in a flood prone area.

Can this be right?
Houston just had its Third 500-Year Flood in Three Years.

Source

*shakes head
Arkemo says it's not releasing their current Tier 2 list of chemicals at the plant. Why? They say they don't see the need?!?!?

Dear ATS Readers, Writers,

Thanks J&C, and no worries about wrong plant.. it got sorted quickly and now we are all the same page, so to speak.

YES, some of these organic compounds are quite volatile.

This shows us that after a storm has blown through, the dangers are far from being over. Lessons noted.

They are so dangerous, they don't allow them on my worksite in Oz.

They require "special handling".

It looks like they evacuated far enough for any explosions, but also read that people are starting to smell smoke, and burning rubber type smells.

IF the plant "goes up in flames", (hopefully it won't), but the longer they can't get in there to "fix it", it will get to a point where it would almost be death wish behaviour to go in there. Wouldn't there be some pretty nasty fumes? They said, other than the smoke not very much danger... I am betting the smoke is pretty darn toxic considering what would be burning, right?

These type of products are heavily used in the plastics and rubber industry. (Maybe the source of the rubber smell people are reporting?) So, depending on market share this affected plant has..... shortages of products that needs these organic peroxides could develop, and subsequent price increases.

The storm did seem to zero in on a heavily industrialised area. Almost all of the oil refineries are in the general area down there too. Kind of an Achilles Heel I reckon.. Need to spread them out so one disaster doesn't take out an entire industry the nation needs desperately to function.

When these products burn they supply their own oxygen, so they can burn very hot and rapidly, so rapidly, it can be like an explosion.

Thanks for this heads up, and we will be watching this story for further developments.

Pravdaseeker




a reply to: jadedANDcynical

WATCH: Texas reporter says state is lying about likelihood of massive ‘shock wave’ chemical plant explosion



Source

Dear ATS Readers, Writers,

You were thinking the same as I was... I was thinking of the exact same event in Texas, but you found it first...

Yeah, now that was quite a campfire wasn't it?

Depending on how much organic peroxides this plant has laying around.... low stock or high stockpiles ready for order and shipment...would determine the severity...

These kind of places can go up in a big bang pretty easy if conditions are right.

Pravdaseeker


a reply to: DancedWithWolves

This plant is only 25 miles from downtown Houston. Less than 20 miles from Kingwood on Houston's east side. A mere 8 miles from Sheldon a small working class community on the outskirts of Houston.

Throw in flood waters, a major nearby incapacitated metropolitan city... This has the potential catastrophic. One to keep an eye on.

Any updates?

Is it under control or has it gotten worse?

a reply to: Kuroodo

It's going to burn and or explode in the next six days. They have lost containment. Details above.

Trying to find out more on local social media. Found some posts from former employees who say it's bad. Have sent messages to some of these folks, hoping to hear back. Will share if I learn anything pertinent.

Found this training vid that discusses organic peroxides:

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Jaded, the Houston Chronicle reporter Matt Dempsy has this...

It would be surprising if Arkema had not considered a scenario like this, said Sam Mannan of Texas A&M University's Mary Kay O'Connor Process Safety Center. Companies can typically quench organic peroxides in situations like this with another chemical, to eliminate the danger.

"You'll lose the feedstock, but it's safer than letting it go into runaway mode," Mannan said.

That compound is standard operating procedure that would have ended this before it became irreversible.

Why didn't they use this compound?

Expletive!

People are still in the evacuation radius.

Source

edit on 30-8-2017 by DancedWithWolves because: (no reason given)

a reply to: DancedWithWolves

Yep, I saw that. I am thinking a plant manager who is trying to maintain margins and doesn't want to burn off feedstock. If he had followed standard procedures with the storm approaching this should have been burnt off and would not be an issue.

One of the sets of social media posts that I saw regarding this incident was from a family member of someone who lives within a half-mile of plant and had refused to evacuate. That is they refused until their daughter drove through the high water to get them and make them evacuate.

A very bad situation only complicated and exacerbated all around.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

“The fire will happen. It will resemble a gasoline fire. It will be explosive and intense in nature,” spokeswoman Janet Smith told The Associated Press.

There was “no way to prevent” the explosion , chief executive Rich Rowe said earlier Wednesday.

In its most recently available submission from 2014, Arkema said potentially 1.1 million residents could be impacted over a distance of 23 miles in a worse case, according to information compiled by a nonprofit group and posted on a website hosted by the Houston Chronicle.

Source

a reply to: DancedWithWolves
So let's all send cooling thoughts to the area! And lift up a few prayers if you do that sort of thing.

I would be quite surprised if they don't have a disaster plan for this. (In all fairness, this has been called a thousand year storm, breaking all records for rainfall. How does one plan for something that has never happened before?) Whether that plan was followed is the big question. Let's hope and pray that the water goes down and they are able to establish a stable power source.

I've been hearing of National Guard units being dispatched from all over the country. I'll bet more than one of those units is dragging a few truckloads of generators with them. Those guys and gals regularly save the day in all sorts of disasters. Perhaps with their assistance, added disaster can be avoided.

Keep those cooling thoughts going folks!

a reply to: diggindirt

I love the idea, unfortunately that ship has sailed it sounds like. I hope they are all wrong but, as it stands, it wouldn't matter if they could get in now even. It's too late to stop it, by all reports. It's going to explode. The question is when, not if, now.

ETA The FAA has banned all flights over the plant.