Trump announces change of heart on Afghanistan

It's our fault why we can't pullout of there in the first place.

We have a huge stake in poppy seeds.

Last week, Afghanistan released new data showing opium production is surging, information that dovetailed with a widely circulated 2016 United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) report that showed similar findings.

The primary problem is a new strain of genetically modified seed that comes from China, which allows poppies to be grown year round. The so-called Chinese seeds began appearing in 2015, according to the UNODC, leading to a massive 43 percent surge in production last year.

According to a separate report from the Institute for War and Peace Reporting, the growth cycle of opium in Afghanistan is now around two months, when it used to take three times as long to grow the crop and process it into heroin.

Link


...the most annoying part?

The opium problem has mushroomed despite the U.S.'s best efforts to eradicate poppy crops. In a January report, the Pentagon's Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR), the U.S. oversight agency for Afghan reconstruction efforts, said the U.S. has committed more than $8.5 billion to counter-narcotics efforts in Afghanistan. Still, Afghanistan remains the world's top opium producer.

originally posted by: Willtell
With all the technology and military power how is it that the US doesn’t crush the Taliban?

Technology is an interesting thing, it works best when countering other technology around the same level of development. Since the Taliban has little in the way of technology, our tech doesn't do much. Lots of our advantages for example are in electronics warfare... something the terrorists completely blank. Air strikes don't matter much either, since they hide in caves and aren't building infrastructure.

The terrain blanks a lot of our advantage, we've also been traditionally weak to suicide attacks.

Lastly, is the economic difference. Every soldier killed or wounded costs us much more money than it costs them. This creates a financial imbalance that will eventually topple the military.

Assault forces don't do well against decentralized armies. They're great at taking fortified positions, but our enemies mostly don't use those against us.

I was doing some reading earlier and it seems that Trump is open to a diplomatic solution with the Taliban. We leave, they regain power, if they curtail terrorism. He only briefly touched on that in his speech, but it seems to be an option on the table. Of course, to make that happen we probably need to appoint an ambassador to Kabul at some point.

a reply to: Willtell

Text With all the technology and military power how is it that the US doesn’t crush the Taliban?

It happens when rules of engagement and war time policies are set by politicians that are not even in the war zone.

It happens when the general's in the field are not allowed to do what is necessary to instill fear and assure victory into the enemy's mindset.

I have several friends that have fought in Afghanistan. They say that the rules of engagement set forth by the previous administration absolutely cost lives and put soldiers in harm's way.

Technology alone does not defeat an enemy. Troops must have the ability to use the technology in a manner that will increase their ability to defeat the enemy and have a clear cut battle plan to any battle.

a reply to: DBCowboy

870 billion and counting. That is a lotta foodstamps. Thanks W!

should just blanket the place with nukes

problem solved

a reply to: Aazadan

If it takes more troops fine, then give them a timeline or a clear list of goals.

On the HRC comment, at least we're not in a hot conflict with Russia at the same time.

So:

We're going to continue to do more of the same.

But this time it's going to be different... because we're no longer nation building, we're just gonna fight.

(I guess up to this point it hasn't been fighting, it's just been nation building ?)




So:

India and Pakistan are going to show us the money AND they're going to play nice together on the same side AND they're going to start killing some Taliban pals.

Or else




So:

We're not going to pull out all 'willy nilly', that would be a very dangerous thing to do.


And maybe this is where the Or else comes into play:

If Pakistan and India don't show these changes to our satisfaction (conditional instead of timeline), we're going to pull out 'willy nilly'.

(Or maybe he didn't mean it that way, maybe he means that if changes are not satisfactory, we go to war with India and Pakistan too ?)




So:

Stay tuned folks.

At some time in the near future enlisted military personnel and all their concerned family members, friends, and neighbours (US and allies alike) will (at some point) find out if we require them to sacrifice 3000 more or 30,000 more or 300,000 more.

How many and for how long ?

Well, we're not telling you that (yet) because... sooper seekrit.






On the plus side ?

For the first time in 2 years, I actually liked how he spoke, how he handled himself, and many of the things he was saying.

So whoever wrote that speech, deserves a big pat on the back because somebody finally knows how to write a proper speech for Trump that actually works.

Two thumbs up for the speech writer and two thumbs up for Trump withholding his self-inflations (okay okay he let a few wee ones slip in but that's forgivable).

I will wait to pass judgement.

If in the next few months, we see US servicemen burning poppy fields, then I will applaud the decision.

If not ........


P

originally posted by: eisegesis
It's our fault why we can't pullout of there in the first place.

We have a huge stake in poppy seeds.

BINGO! and that`s the real reason why we stay there. it`s no coincidence that opium addiction and deaths are at epidemic levels in the U.S. while at the same time opium production in Afghanistan has skyrocketed since the U.S. sent troops to free Afghanistan from the Taliban.
The U.S. doesn`t care about the Taliban or the people in Afghanistan the U.S. is only there to protect the opium.

originally posted by: Tardacus

originally posted by: eisegesis
It's our fault why we can't pullout of there in the first place.

We have a huge stake in poppy seeds.

BINGO! and that`s the real reason why we stay there. it`s no coincidence that opium addiction and deaths are at epidemic levels in the U.S. while at the same time opium production in Afghanistan has skyrocketed since the U.S. sent troops to free Afghanistan from the Taliban.
The U.S. doesn`t care about the Taliban or the people in Afghanistan the U.S. is only there to protect the opium.

We grow poppies right here in the USA, It's the California state flower. . .
Why would we need fields in an unfriendly nation when they grow wild in our own territories?

Yea it really is all about the opium. Otherwise i fully support carpeting afghanistan with nukes. F'em and f this costly war. Level the whole fin country. We obviously dont give a sh@t about innocents as it is and other than opium the country is completely insignificant.

a reply to: Willtell

It does indeed seem like this war is being forced to go on and on. And its being done so quietly, and in the manner of a slow drip so no ones antennae are raised.

Interesting

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: Tardacus

originally posted by: eisegesis
It's our fault why we can't pullout of there in the first place.

We have a huge stake in poppy seeds.

BINGO! and that`s the real reason why we stay there. it`s no coincidence that opium addiction and deaths are at epidemic levels in the U.S. while at the same time opium production in Afghanistan has skyrocketed since the U.S. sent troops to free Afghanistan from the Taliban.
The U.S. doesn`t care about the Taliban or the people in Afghanistan the U.S. is only there to protect the opium.

We grow poppies right here in the USA, It's the California state flower. . .
Why would we need fields in an unfriendly nation when they grow wild in our own territories?

It's a war-torn country. America would receive international scorn for leaving Afghanistan to consume itself, which has forced the US to protect one of the only crops that allows their economy to function. Under humanitarian guise, it's turned into the world's largest heroin plantation, supplying up to 90% of the planet's fix.

This was the original plan:

According to the United Nations, the war-torn nation provides 90 percent of the world's supply of opium poppy, the bright, flowery crop that transforms into one of the most addictive drugs in existence.

And as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention sounds the alarm about a worsening heroin epidemic here in the U.S., opium production in Afghanistan shows no signs of slowing down.

"Afghanistan has roughly 500,000 acres, or about 780 square miles, devoted to growing opium poppy. That's equivalent to more than 400,000 U.S. football fields — including the end zones," John Sopko, Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction, said in a speech in May.

Link

originally posted by: eisegesis

originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: Tardacus

originally posted by: eisegesis
It's our fault why we can't pullout of there in the first place.

We have a huge stake in poppy seeds.

BINGO! and that`s the real reason why we stay there. it`s no coincidence that opium addiction and deaths are at epidemic levels in the U.S. while at the same time opium production in Afghanistan has skyrocketed since the U.S. sent troops to free Afghanistan from the Taliban.
The U.S. doesn`t care about the Taliban or the people in Afghanistan the U.S. is only there to protect the opium.

We grow poppies right here in the USA, It's the California state flower. . .
Why would we need fields in an unfriendly nation when they grow wild in our own territories?

It's a war-torn country. America would receive international scorn for leaving Afghanistan to consume itself, which has forced the US to protect one of the only crops that allows their economy to function. Under humanitarian guise, it turned into the world's largest heroin plantation, supplying up to 90% of the planet's fix.

This was the original plan (or facade):

I also added some information to my first post.

I understand the humanitarian reasons (yes I will use that term), the US is still there. And I have seen the data in regards to opiate production in Afghanistan.
More-so I understand no other country wants to take that burden on.
But really, we give our children 18 years before they are on their own.
Why can we not give a country less time to produce something besides the drugs?
I get with the instability, it may become a haven for extremists.
But it is not for the USA, to play stepdad to this country.

They need to get by on their own merits, or cede their land to a neighbor.

The NATO occupation of Afghanistan will last an eternity apparently.

No Empire since the Persians have ever conquered Afghanistan. It's called the graveyard of Empires for a reason.

It's no secret the US-European Empire is on the decline. This is just another sign of it.

a reply to: JinMI
Hey we need to stay in Afghanistan. That vast mineral wealth is our key to confronting China in the manufacturing of consumer electronics by securing their rare earth metals. However, I am not at all happy with the Taliban being considered for political legitimacy.In fact, I dare say it is unacceptable. Move on to plan G, whatever it is. We have an alphabet to exhaust, and shall go double leers if need be. Access to those minerals can bring the American electronics industry back to the global market.

The sacrifices of our past are for the success of the future. Afghanistan shall be South Africa'd! .... Australia'd! ... domesticated!

Our technology and logistics industry and infrastructure has the capacity to mine and develop those fine, sweet sweet REM's and deliver them to the global market, our own included of course. With our Israeli and Pacific friends, we will introduce autonomous platforms to the lands to provide security for the local labor, bringing jobs and prosperity to their communities, and ours as well.

This land has been invaded by savages who are holding the innocent and genuine peoples of the region hostage from realizing their future as a commerce and technology hub with massive industrial growth potential. It is our duty to ourselves as a civilization, and to those needing aid to make these goals a reality. Lets not forget we are going to manage to get about 18% or so of Syria that our guys our holding now. The Turks may hold a no man's land nearby as well, so lets keep an eye out on that. That is more mineral and energy potential right there. The deserts are also prime for solar mega farm generation for gigawatts distribution to a developing energy grid.

Germany and Japan were not rebuilt in a day. We can do this, Afghanistan could even take us to mars!

originally posted by: Ohanka
The NATO occupation of Afghanistan will last an eternity apparently.

No Empire since the Persians have ever conquered Afghanistan. It's called the graveyard of Empires for a reason.

It's no secret the US-European Empire is on the decline. This is just another sign of it.

I suggest you watch Trump's speech he said he's willing to help as long as the Afghan got takes steps toward self determination. And advised them this time is not unlimited. Do you want to know what went wrong in Afagistan having fought there. We knew were the terrorists were we knew who was growing opium and what the money was being used for. We even knew the shipments of opium was making Chinese money. They would help ship it through oil contacts they have on Afghanistan. Yes somehow China got control of oil fields there. Well the reason it's taken 16 years us restrictions were placed by Obama that didn't allow us to attack known basses. All we could do was advise afgab fighters who were Ill equipped to attack these areas. The Afghan military is at best mediocre. I've seen them with a 3 to one advantage over the enemy and they would turn tail and run.

The only thing that seemed effective was embedding US troops with them. It gave them the confidence they need to push forward. This stopped under Obama luckily I only had 1 tour under these policies but I remember how different it was compared to my previous two.

The other thing is Pakistan it was no secret that they harbored enemy commanders. Think about this they openly live in Pakistan but feel safe. Obama sometimes would send in a drone but reality it's only marginally effective.

Now I seen people asking what 4000 people could do if embedded within afghan troops with fire restriction's removed a hell of a lot. Even putting 20 special forces with a unit makes a huge difference we were able to call in air support set up battle plans and give them the one thing they lacked leadership. Afghans could be amazing fighters as long as they had the leadership without it well they were pathetic because they lacked the ability to plan even a basic assault.

a reply to: Ohanka

Russia knew when to cut their losses and get out of Dodge.

Guess the rest of us are just going to have to learn the hard way.



Afghan with their aiding and abetting terrorists brought this on themselves, time to fix it themselves too.

Afterall, the US now claims to no longer be "nation building" as per Trumps speech tonight, thus there's no need to continue 'training" these Afghanis... since 'training' and 'aiding' and 'guiding' indicates "nation building".

They've been getting 'trained' (aka nation building) for how many years now ?

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: DBCowboy

Then we get to fall back on that idea that we can defeat an ideology.

Cultural experts told Cheney/Bush - - you can't fight an ideology.

They thought they could.

a reply to: Annee

They beat communism...that's an ideology


They beat Nazism...that's an ideology