I'd like to point out a few bits of theosophic wisdom that should be obvious

a reply to: Rhaegar7

Annialation well I can observe that working in practice to the degree I can observe, what is beyond, I cannot say.

There is the Sea of Chaos as I call it. I understand that that is the same as Blavatsky's Fohat. But both Blavatsky and I would have to stand together and verify our observation to our terminology to be sure.

But even the Sea of Chaos has Beings who live within. I would think that is because they like it there better then outside the Sea. They do occasionally "build" things out of chaos. Perhaps the term "organise" is better then "build". That is about all I know of a "source".

Of humanity's source, I don't know either. But feminine seems to be the norm out there for Beings. That is to say "male" is something that occurs when the original differentiates into sexes, male and female. Having two sexes vastly speeds up evolution. The alternative is for Beings to divide and we have two or more identical "daughter" Beings which makes for very slow rate of change. Nature and other Beings reproduce like that. The mother "steps back" and the children play.

Biology calls that mitosis and meiosis. The basics are the same except when Nature Beings reproduce the "mother" still exists as herself and the "daughters" are brand new and have all their ancestors memories. The basic hierarchy.

It's just speculation on my part, but if the humans follow natural ways, we were once akin to Nature Beings and other deities and divided as a reproductive process. We would have been feminine then. With the division into male and female, evolution (change) would be vastly sped up. That was probably some ancestor's "good idea" at the time. So she would be the original "goddess". We would have to have a memory of the original in us somewhere.

The world is full of wonders

a reply to: Rhaegar7

I'm at work at the moment, but I think your right.

I will respond tonight.

a reply to: Rhaegar7

A question. Could Ahriman be connected to the mainstream religions? Please, tell me more about him. I suddenly feel great interest in him. I've just realized that he's a missing part of the puzzle. He must be the solution to the problem with the black magicians - they're basically torturing the whole of humanity, while we barely realize what is going on.

Ahriman, well Steiner spoke of him at length, and that is available online at Steiner archive. Zoroasterism, I think, put Ahriman (supreme evil) in opposition to Ahura Mazda (supreme good).

I can't say anything about Ahriman other then he exists and has a sense of humour.

His statement of "I don't like competition." in response to my (admittedly a WTF) moment and question "why are YOU helping ME?" suggests to me that there is more to him then is generally known, and maybe we should keep an open mind rather then think the ancient texts explain the whole story.

Another consideration is why I was attacking the Black Lodges at the time. My reason was that they hurt Nature Spirits. So it was not a matter of "good guys" vs "bad guys", In the past I have attacked the White Lodge's for the same reason.

Perhaps he wanted me to know I was not the only one who cared and that I was not all alone in what I do.

Other then that I can't say anything about Ahriman really. But I have seen enough, and experienced enough to think that there are safe-guards and systems in place to stop absolute evil from growing. I have seen, for myself, what can happen when absolute evil does get beyond control. It consumes everything.

Ahriman as the solution to the Black Magicians, hmmm, maybe a part of the solution. In practice anyway. I don't know the greater world of Ahriman. I'm not a Being of the Shadow, though I know how to disguise myself and go unnoticed in that realm. (I got grilled one day for doing that in the Light, carelessness on my part.)

Tacticly, one would not assume that black Magicians were the whole problem. Assuming can be dangerous.

And "Yes" I also think they are torturing humanity and more. But knowing the Black Lodge, their reasons may be to starve off extinction by feeding off misery.

The law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system is constant; energy can be transformed from one form to another, but can be neither created nor destroyed. - First Law of Thermodynamics.

I think that applies in the occult worlds too. If black Magicians are cut off from the source, as I suspect they are, then they would have to procure energy in some fashion.

And "yes" they go unnoticed . . . .

Hope that helps.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

You know the oposition gave me a glimpse of my past life in which i ruled at the supreme ruler and that i created a math system that forever kept my subjects silenced that essentially i gained power by having the most cunning and selfish spirit that i would silence everything else using math and when ny first death in this life came i was asked while dying, " sir is 0 10 a real number " i was for a time tourchered with math anyway i do apologise for the silencing i hope none of you remember it but evidently thats why this life is karma

a reply to: AnathemasEffigy

Be kind to this world and you'll be fine in no time

a reply to: DpatC

Hehe. I'll be sure to check out the thread. I find Manichaeism very appealing, as have many people throughout history. I just suppose that rather than two deities, two opposing principles are at play.

About zero - not only does it signify the Source, it also signifies Limbo, which is super cool. We'll find out what 0 really means eventually. It is cool for sure.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

The sea of chaos seems like Limbo - a place where everything is relative, and thoughts are manifested into form - what we perceive of as 'chaos' should actually be the Source, which is something so beyond us that can easily be mistaken for 'random'.

Nothing is random, there are no coincidences.

I don't trust the ideas of evolutionary theory. For me it's more a question of archetypes. The masculine and feminine beginnings are to me basic archetypes. The feminine seems like an archetype of the Source (Yin), while the masculine as an archetype of the Creator (Yang). The Yang activates the Yin; the Creator activates the Source. The result is Balance.

There are many sub-archetypes and avatars for the basic Yin-Yang archetypes though. For example - I think the Supreme Yang is Justice, the pure Yin - the Goddess, Yin-Yang Balance is The Father/The Sage/The Teacher (Buddha/Christ figures), a fourth Yin dominated archetype should be considered the Mother (a very important archetype to be sure). I recognize these four. I call them the Four Horsemen and I think they are basic to this Universe, and lay underneath many popular religions throughout history.

In actuality the Yin and the Yang are One, and I feel we are part of this oneness of the masculine/feminine, even while we perceive ourselves as separate and genderized.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Thanks.

I've had black magic done to me and It turned my life to ruins. I've since identified who did it and how, and I've gained a lot of experience in the whole area of magic. In my understanding, those driven to do black magic have hearts as black as tar. They like to cause suffering. Black magic is akin to the 'Crucio' curse in Harry Potter. It's mostly about a slow kind of torture, which might not kill the victim, but will surely be incredibly painful and horrific. It's more about ruining lifes, and death is considered as being too kind.

Interestingly - the Goddess (of) Magic seems to respect when someone decides he wants to be chaotic evil and become a force for suffering, ruin and pain. It seems that the balance requires it so that practicing black magic should be easy enough - it should require only a willingness to do wrong and thus follow the 'left hand path' (that's my understanding of the term, but I might make a fool out of myself). By synchronicity such people get the required experience from early childhood and their mind works in a way in which they soon start to realize the magical nature of reality and how to turn it to their own advantage. Black magicians advance very fast - it's like they gain 7-8 levels in a short time, and this is because evil is fundamentally connected with power and dominion. A love of evil and a black heart are the perfect requirements for rapid accumulation of occult power. They're surely going to get help from demons, from all corrupted kinds of people - they will advance in society and have all the right tools to keep advancing. At some point they will stumble upon some lesser known texts on magic and specifically black magic and they will start practicing it - they find they have the knack for it.

So basically - having the black heart makes them manifest and attract all the necessary conditions for rapid advancement in the occult. By the time they reach maturity they are already quite proficient. This is related to the fact that the God of this Creation is evil, and that evil by nature is about dominion.

So - they are super OP at first. We're basically cannon fodder to them. They enjoy causing suffering and that is why the ruling principle of Evil gives them the ability to rapidly advance in all areas. They have super high IQ and Wisdom, are often super charismatic and physically strong. Everything comes easy to them. They feel like winners and the world is their oyster. They could be called 'Children of Satan' or simply.. 'Children of God'.

So.. these guys have always been problematic to me. I barely escaped with my life their machinations and certainly not unscathed.

It's quite obvious that the black magicians have ruled this planet for at least the last 2000 years. The Bible itself and the Church are instruments for the advancement of the black magicians. It makes humanity as a sort of experimental field to practice black magic upon. There is a symbol of a crucified man on top of every Orthodox church. The priests wear black and gold and sing cryptic, mystical incantations. Black magic has been institutionalized on a grand scale.

So.. many of us are aware of this reality. The black magicians are #ing around with us right now and it's like being under the effect of 'Crucio' for most of the time. A being that forces instant karma on those heartless freaks and sends them into Hell is a being worth worshipping in my book. It's just that they're super OP for us to deal with.

I guess a Paladin, maybe Inquisitor Lawful Good alignment would be efficient in destroying those #ers. They're Chaotic Evil themselves.

P.S. The bible itself is a grand act of black magic that has created the ritual of enslavement upon the whole of mankind. The Qu'ran is no different. In fact, many black magicians seem to come from the Muslim world.

a reply to: AnathemasEffigy

Karma is a big part of this life for sure.

About parallel versions of ourselves.. The pure infinite is bigger than you think. Any sort of formal expression of it is insufficient to represent its absolute infinity. It's like it overflows through itself. Like it can't logically contain itself. It's actually beyond logic.

But this is the 0. In the 1 - Creation - these potentials are activated very carefully by the Supreme Principles. So you can see an astounding number of versions of yourself. An exhaustive number, in fact. There is a kind of sacred mathematics involved, but the total number is not random, the number of variants is chosen by design.

originally posted by: Whatsthisthen
a reply to: Rhaegar7




Ahriman, well Steiner spoke of him at length, and that is available online at Steiner archive. Zoroasterism, I think, put Ahriman (supreme evil) in opposition to Ahura Mazda (supreme good).

I can't say anything about Ahriman other then he exists and has a sense of humour.

His statement of "I don't like competition." in response to my (admittedly a WTF) moment and question "why are YOU helping ME?" suggests to me that there is more to him then is generally known, and maybe we should keep an open mind rather then think the ancient texts explain the whole story.

Another consideration is why I was attacking the Black Lodges at the time. My reason was that they hurt Nature Spirits. So it was not a matter of "good guys" vs "bad guys", In the past I have attacked the White Lodge's for the same reason.

Perhaps he wanted me to know I was not the only one who cared and that I was not all alone in what I do.

Other then that I can't say anything about Ahriman really. But I have seen enough, and experienced enough to think that there are safe-guards and systems in place to stop absolute evil from growing. I have seen, for myself, what can happen when absolute evil does get beyond control. It consumes everything.

Ahriman as the solution to the Black Magicians, hmmm, maybe a part of the solution. In practice anyway. I don't know the greater world of Ahriman. I'm not a Being of the Shadow, though I know how to disguise myself and go unnoticed in that realm. (I got grilled one day for doing that in the Light, carelessness on my part.)

Tacticly, one would not assume that black Magicians were the whole problem. Assuming can be dangerous.

And "Yes" I also think they are torturing humanity and more. But knowing the Black Lodge, their reasons may be to starve off extinction by feeding off misery.

The law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system is constant; energy can be transformed from one form to another, but can be neither created nor destroyed. - First Law of Thermodynamics.

I think that applies in the occult worlds too. If black Magicians are cut off from the source, as I suspect they are, then they would have to procure energy in some fashion.

And "yes" they go unnoticed . . . .

Hope that helps.

I will read up on Ahriman. From my understanding, it's logical to think of two principles - the SPoG and the SPoE, both opposed and harmonizing each other. In a way, Creation is divided into one of Light and one of Darkness (and maybe some shades in between and on top). But all creation is perfect the way it is.

If Ahriman is the Supreme Principle of Evil, or whatever the SPoE is actually called, perhaps it considers the uncontrolled, unenlightened usage of black magic as 'unworthy'. This SPoE will have as its goal to make evil infinitely great, and it would reward creative or dedicated application of evil, while it would punish the mundane and lowly. Similarly to the Bible - God deems it unworthy to do mundane acts of evil, in a way these diminish evil's greatness - to be envious and to give false testimony, to go around as if you're the boss #ing, stealing and doing whatever you want.. This insults the Supreme Principle who would require you, if you want to be part of his Creation to actually advance the agenda of evil - to become 'interesting' to him. All those who indulge in violating the basic commandments of popular religion - they basically bore and insult God. They demean him, and so - their punishment is ultimately severe.

So this means that true Evil is aristocratic. It values the greatness of evil and serves to advance it. And there is lowly, unenlightened selfishness, which is imperfection in God's eyes and is purged.

That's the logic of evil, but the interesting part is that you can't contest it - you have to agree with it. Evil is the higher octave and it makes the rules.

So a black magician acts as if he himself is the Supreme Principle of Evil - he takes an easy path - he is overly rational, while evil celebrates irrationality. He is deemed unworthy and is therefore made into an offering - he's sacrificed as a punishment and this clears any responsibility from God for allowing injustice and inbalance, and thus - diminishing evil's greatness.

So.. evil is a necessary and very deep part of Creation. God himself is by all likelihood completely evil. It's valuable to understand the darkness, as there is incredible wisdom hidden within. Evil itself does not stimulate people into partaking in it. It values actual contribution and not a lazy consumerist mentality.

In a way - evil itself might value a great force of good more than a mundane greedy dickhead.

And it discourages great people to thread the path of evil. It encourages those who lack greatness to partake in it, and often makes them into burned offerings, accomplishing a lot of different objectives with this strategy. So in a sense, evil defends its own principles. That's what the Lawful Evil alignment is about.

It's funny and also quite enlightening - in the Planescape version of DND, there is a concept of a Blood War. The Blood War is the eternal war between the forces of Lawful Evil and Chaotic Evil. And a big moral of the story is that while they are very mighty when taken individually, they are locked into an eternal war, which takes all of their energy and effort. It's really interesting.

So - the general idea is that the Supreme Principle of Evil actually deals out punishments to those who he considers unworthy or those who seem to 'corrupt' his designs. The SPoG simply provides freedom and opportunities. It defends and guides. It allows all things.

So I guess we might hope for a greater demon to destroy a lesser one. Why not?

On the topic at hand, I've been thinking that the Universe itself, being One, has created this completely supernatural entity we call God - the very soul of the supernatural, creating infinite paradox and division, with a certain intent in mind. The intent is for the One - the Universe - to evolve. And it can't evolve when it's simply One. So it makes 'The Great Other' - God and lets him carve the Universe up. It basically allows infinite Evil and creates the basic division in order for this Supreme Principle of Evil to thoroughly activate the Universe.

And, once activated, the Universe itself becomes the Supreme Principle of Good, and this whole play and all of its elements taken together form the key that unlocks the higher - Supernatural Universe. Creating God is simply the Universe's way to evolve.

a reply to: Rhaegar7

I get your points, and wouldn't disagree.

As for myself I understand that Light, as a first principal, casts a Shadow. That is about the best of my understanding based purely on my personal experience.

But the Shadow World itself knows limits, beyond which there is a potential to derail everything, to destroy everything. The Shadow itself will work to prevent that from happening. It is there, that Light and Shadow have a common interest and can work together.

I wouldn't recommend that idea of cooperation at that level. It is not for anyone who cares for their future.

a reply to: Rhaegar7

Yep I can relate to what your saying having experienced the torture.

My understanding of their rapid advancement and "power" is simply because of the structural setup of the ceremonial magic. Circles within circles within circles and every circle thinking it is in charge. They don't know they are controlled by people behind them.

Best suggestion is simply give no reason to be noticed.

a reply to: Rhaegar7

I guess it is a question of how one interprets the unthinkable.

I have never been to limbo so can't say. But the Sea of Chaos doesn't cast a shadow as far as I can tell, and the Being who showed it to me/ took me there assures me it casts no shadow. My understanding is that as soon as any order is imposed that order casts the shadow. That seems to be how it works to my little 3 dimensional intellect anyway. I don't have a real use for that sort of knowledge so . . . (scratches head)

I wonder about the way human thinking orders deities - the opposites.

I would put Light as first principal out of Chaos, which casts a shadow. So the creation of the shadow would be a consequence of creating Light

Just my home-grown understanding.

Four horseman and other similar. Hope I don't meet them, I actually like a quiet life and the company of Nature Beings.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Oh i love you all so very much and am blessed to see and experience each one i do e
, and am learning to love and forgive myself -this realities main purpose teaching forgiveness of ones self and others preparing us for the cosmic end to loneliness; the introduction of the true outside other our eternal partner. Anyway i do warn all reading to be careful what you think and definitely what you write, because even if for a moment the absolute truth of everything is experienced and conceptualized the seperation will collapse and back to 0 we will become and again another experince in some other reality will unfold driven by the creative energy of the source. I warn to be careful only in suggesting that before realizing such knowledge one is prepared and all debts are paid so that the next production isnt one with a karmatic accountant restoring and correcting the last productions failures and with that a song lets jam!

a reply to: Rhaegar7

It is one thing considering evil in terms of light and darkness as a duality that balances for instance.

There is another way to think of evil.

And that is in terms of cause and effect. How something affects the whole.

Perhaps the word threatens is better then evil in a practical sense.

One can deduce that the "black lodge" (for want of a better term) is polarising itself towards the shadow world. One can also deduce that there is probably the desire for independence to be a power in one's own right as opposed to working with others as a part of a system or a whole.

Ergo, the Black Lodge probably has a goal along the lines of absolute power and independence in its own right.

The mechanism for this objective may very well lay in the alchemy of the Fires of Uranium.

To explain. In the days of old, kings were buried in dolmens located over uranium deposits. The fires of uranium have the effect of causing a separation of the subtle (inner) anatomy.

With a separation of the subtle anatomy and the ability to focus oneself in say; the mental plain, the discarding of emotions, astral and certain higher aspects such as what is called monad, a certain independence can be (theoretically) achieved.

Theoretically, independence from karma and the wheel of reincarnation can also result. I also suggest an immortality in the sense of growing in intelligence without limit, balance or accountability.

Such a scenario would require long term developement and cultivation, a civilisation that "discovers" the secrets of uranium. A civilisation that will, or can be caused to, bathe the world in the fires of uranium. Perhaps the fires of uranium are what could be called a crisis in (a civilisation's) developement.. If so, then other civilisations may have survived out there in the cosmos. The light at the end of the tunnel may well be manifesting after we overcome the misuse of modern alchemy (physics). If that is.

That this has been done before here might not be far-fetched. We have had threads before here on ATS about ancient atomic war . . .

Not a nice scenario to contemplate.

But there is no reason to assume that this would be limited to just one side of the duality of light and darkness. The people in opposition to darkness could, conceivably, meet the challenge also. A certain thinking is required . . .

Remember, everyone stands in the realm between, or perhaps one might say the realm of both light and shadow.

If this has happened before then there are unaccountable people out there already. Ultimately unaccountable people can do anything. That is what I would call true evil.

a reply to: Rhaegar7

If there was a god of Good do you think it would punish wrong doers at all? How harsh would it be? What would it expect? What would it let slide? Religion has attempted to, in times and places carried out its, answers (to) these.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Light and darkness are for me one and the same. 'The Shadow' usually refers to what is concealed or hidden, like for example - in Astrology the Shadow is the Descendant. It is there and it affects reality, but one is unaware of its presence - it is unseen.

Light and darkness are basically the result of the Universe attempting to know itself, and so structuring itself into a basic polarity. Light is not 'good' and darkness is not 'bad'. Actually, we've been brainwashed to accept the light as 'good' and the darkness as 'bad', which creates a dis-balance of light. We're all relying too much on 'light' archetypes, and when they are taken out of 'context' - that is - out of light-dark Balance, they serve to blind us. This unbalanced light basically blinds us.

That's what happens when we fall too much for religious and spiritual modes of thinking - we become judgemental and see ourselves as 'righteous'. We become warriors of the light and we make darkness the enemy. And then we feel justified to continue our spiritual crusade, as the darkness won't relent and gives us back exactly what we put out. If light paradigms cause you to act against your basic instincts, you've basically let yourself become enslaved by the shining allure of what's 'holy', 'divine', 'righteous', etc.. When we associate the light completely with 'right' and 'good', and the darkness with 'wrong' and 'evil', we fall under the light spell.

And this is what happens on our planet - many people see themselves as 'righteous' and fighting for the light. They do not realize that when light is taken out of Balance, it is an especially scary form of evil. It forces conformism, it demands obedience and subservience, and it produces only stagnation and illusion.

The whole of politics is an exercise in luring people in with 'light' ideas and archetypes, which becomes a pretext for basically all sorts of 'evil' and 'wrong'. Once you assume that the 'light' is good, you start to accept all forms of actual evil, disguised in 'light' clothing, as right and justified.

Think about it - the light basically destroys the darkness, while the darkness allows the light to spread. The darkness seems to be the lower octave,while the light - the higher. And we noticed that with good and evil - good is the lower octave, and evil - the higher. And it makes sense that people would fall for worshipping evil, thinking it is good. Evil is very, very powerful.

I'm not saying that light is evil, but I am saying that this kind of 'light' that is intolerant of darkness, and rather than shine through the darkness, attempts to demonize and destroy it.. This is a false light. The light of Christianity is an especially good example of 'false light'. This is the real evil.

So, with this kind of dis-balance already in place, it makes more sense to seek wisdom in the darkness. That's why I think about topics like how would we be actually able to escape from God by going to Limbo - how doing the 'wrong' thing is actually good, how to disown all commandments and adopt all sorts of vices willingly.. The soul needs this liberating experience, and will find it one way or another.

A friend of mine commented on these thoughts of mine, saying 'You've become dark. A normal and expected progression.'

So, right now in this world - the light is evil, and the darkness is good. In other times and worlds it might be different, but here and now it is the way it is.

The light can be connected to Lucifer, who sees himself as divinely perfect and glorious in his light. He is 'the Light bearer'.

This habitual worship of 'the light' is kind of absurd. I mean - did no one ever ask himself why he should glorify the light as being 'righteous' and fight against the darkness and consider it 'evil'? It's really idiotic when you think about it.

a reply to: DanielKoenig

A god of Good seems to me almost like an oxymoron. When I think of a Supreme Principle of Good.. well I can think of some kind of Transcendent entity that we could call a 'God', but it would be a kind of 'Sleeping God'. Being completely transcendent to everything, from this perspective we are basically exploring his subconscious and being part of his body and mind. In this mode of thinking God is the whole, the container and the one in which everything takes place.

So this sort of God is the God of Deism - impersonal, non-interfering. He does not need to interfere, because he sort of 'got it right the first time'. This God has created the Universe perfect and need not change a thing. Any kind of change would be evil. That is why I consider 'change' to be generally a dark concept, as it indicates applying force and destruction to the primordial design.

So, this sleeping God, who does not interfere, he has done his job perfectly before the beginning of Time. He has designed logic itself to be perfect, he has designed everything to be perfect. He now sleeps and can only be encountered occasionally - usually when we seek him out, or seek some sort of higher truth or meaning to life.

Calling him 'The One Infinite Creator' might be more apt, but 'The Transcendent God' or 'The Sleeping God' will do as well. This is more or less the Supreme Principle of Good. It is not omnipotent, it does not measure degrees of 'perfection' so it does not consider itself any more perfect than anything else, it is non-interfering and impersonal, it does not pass judgement, it does not take sides, it has created the Universe perfect, and now it sleeps and is encountered only at the right moments.

The actual active God is Lucifer - completely free, supernatural, aggressive and domineering, interfering, basking in his glory, possessing an actual soul and monad, the one true personal God, judging and correcting, applying force.

He is the true God in the sense that it is he who wields omnipotence and applies it to Creation, while the Transcendent/Sleeping God is more like the foundation of all things, it's like he allows Lucifer to play with his perfect creations. Lucifer is like the divine child.

So.. the evil God will judge you and will punish you for his own amusement, among other things.

The good God will not judge you, he would consider all sort of psychological perversions in people as his own responsibility to fix, and not their inherent imperfection. To him both a Christ and a Lucifer are primordially equal, and he would give the whole Universe to Lucifer, because he feels it is Lucifer who deserves the most kindness, being farthest away from the good by the predestination paradox that creates him. Lucifer is not guilty of being 'evil', he is *necessary evil*.

So the good God will not judge you, he would rather encourage your free will and growth and will *always* take your side. He will *never* take the side of an accuser, he will always be your lawyer.

In his eyes there are no criminals and no 'corrupted' people.

But his goodness is manifest in that he allows people to receive the consequences of their actions. The God of Deism has set us free and he values our freedom most of all. He will never interfere with our free will, so he will *never* punish us for exercising it.

But here you see why many consider Lucifer to be the true God, being the highest active, personal God. Lucifer WILL Punish you. He is 'necessary evil', and this makes him sort of 'righteous'.. 'righteous evil' that is. It's a little strange, but logical. You can escape from Lucifer's sight, and you can also fall under his dominion one way or another. Keep in mind that he will judge you as 'unworthy' almost by default. That's why the popular religions idolize the complete submission and idolatry of 'God'. It encourages us to fear him. The Bible says 'it is a scary thing to fall into the hands of the *living* God.' Lucifer is the living God and he will judge you. But he won't judge you fairly.

Lucifer won't give you Justice. He'll make you work for it. He doesn't give anything to anyone freely. He demands adoration and is kind to those who adore him. He considers himself the one true God, and enjoys being one. He values submission and piety.

So.. yeah.. if you feel like worshipping a Deity - you can, and there are many true Deities - not only Lucifer. But if you are drawn towards truth, you'll eventually encounter the One Infinite Creator as the Supreme Principle of Good. But he's not a Deity.

I hope I have answered your question.

P.S. Lucifer is an integral part of Creation, because he is the universal activator. That's the purpose of his existence and he accomplishes it. So in this sense, he is the originally perfect angel, who 'fell'. Our job should be to reverse this, so that he can abandon the role of Satan, and reclaim his original angelic form. Right now he is 'necessary evil', and he provides 'the enemy' to fight against, which provides unique opportunities for growth and experience. Once we have graduated from this game of polarities and conflict, Lucifer will become a pure guardian angel for the next chapters of the play. We basically have to beat him first.

One way to win this game is to 'beat the Devil' (the living God). This is difficult to accomplish, because at first you lack any understanding of his existence, you don't known what he is and can't quite put him down as 'the enemy'. He is hidden. Even after you encounter him, he'll try to convince you he's the good guy. It's not easy at all. There are other ways to win the game, as well. I don't know all of them. It's an interesting exercise to think of as many ways to graduate from this dimension as you can. The basic principle is that you have to unite the archetypes back into the primordial Oneness. Beating the Devil is one way to do this, but it's not the only one.

a reply to: Rhaegar7

Light and darkness are for me one and the same. . . . .

This seems to be so from my view as well, our world has both aspects of something more. Maybe there are more aspects we don't know about at this "level". I like to think so, it would mean new discoveries ahead.

Light is not 'good' and darkness is not 'bad'. Actually, we've been brainwashed to accept the light as 'good' and the darkness as 'bad', which creates a dis-balance of light.

. . . and unbalanced one might think? I wonder.

That's what happens when we fall too much for religious and spiritual modes of thinking - we become judgemental and see ourselves as 'righteous'. We become warriors of the light and we make darkness the enemy. And then we feel justified to continue our spiritual crusade, as the darkness won't relent and gives us back exactly what we put out. If light paradigms cause you to act against your basic instincts, you've basically let yourself become enslaved by the shining allure of what's 'holy', 'divine', 'righteous', etc.. When we associate the light completely with 'right' and 'good', and the darkness with 'wrong' and 'evil', we fall under the light spell.

And this is what happens on our planet - many people see themselves as 'righteous' and fighting for the light. They do not realize that when light is taken out of Balance, it is an especially scary form of evil. It forces conformism, it demands obedience and subservience, and it produces only stagnation and illusion.

Certainly does, just from observing the world of religious conflict around us . . .

Think about it - the light basically destroys the darkness, while the darkness allows the light to spread. The darkness seems to be the lower octave,while the light - the higher. And we noticed that with good and evil - good is the lower octave, and evil - the higher. And it makes sense that people would fall for worshipping evil, thinking it is good. Evil is very, very powerful.

I'm not saying that light is evil, but I am saying that this kind of 'light' that is intolerant of darkness, and rather than shine through the darkness, attempts to demonize and destroy it.. This is a false light. The light of Christianity is an especially good example of 'false light'. This is the real evil.

So, with this kind of dis-balance already in place, it makes more sense to seek wisdom in the darkness. That's why I think about topics like how would we be actually able to escape from God by going to Limbo - how doing the 'wrong' thing is actually good, how to disown all commandments and adopt all sorts of vices willingly.. The soul needs this liberating experience, and will find it one way or another.

One of the practical problems of a living being (myself included) who is trying to understand the world around him as a duality is that he is looking at things from the perspective of being both light and darkness.

If we stand between light and darkness, one could say we are shades of grey. If we try and polarise, or move towards either, we are moving to one of the two extremes of the duality.

It doesn't help when occult teachings add to this the concept of "higher" and "lower" - higher being "good" and lower being "bad". We see this everywhere. Underworlds are supposed to be bad. Heavens are supposed to be good.

My own view of this higher/lower good/bad is that it shifts us towards more extremes of dualities. My cynical nature sees this duality thinking taken advantage of by the various teachings. Especially when there are masters or priests standing between the neophyte's and what is beyond.

But that is just humans keeping secrets

So, right now in this world - the light is evil, and the darkness is good. In other times and worlds it might be different, but here and now it is the way it is.

The light can be connected to Lucifer, who sees himself as divinely perfect and glorious in his light. He is 'the Light bearer'.

This habitual worship of 'the light' is kind of absurd. I mean - did no one ever ask himself why he should glorify the light' as being 'righteous' and fight against the darkness and consider it 'evil'? It's really idiotic when you think about it.

Ever thought that the various schools are simply creating worlds arranged to a set of rules? Within which members, "initiates" might be a better word, see an imposed world-view?

That which Theosophy or bhudism, or Judaism teaches being everything. That which is daemonised or termed illusion or said to be evil is a way of excluding from their world?

One could say that a religion or "school" is a closed space within which initiates work and live according to defined laws.

One thing I have learned is that things are not what they seem to be. One personal experience was to cross paths esoterically with the so-called "black rabbis" who have a reputation as being dark.

Some checking of their history revealed that they were once ordinary rabbis who objected to a change in their "school" and were consequently cursed. They were actually "good guys" in a way, or at least not evil. One tends to become wary of the "good guys" and "bad guys" in case the are not what their reputation says they are.

Realising that "light" does not necessarily mean "good" has a tramatic effect on people. It did me, so very very pissed and angry for a year or two. But nowadays I just look at how Beings treat others rather then listen to what is said about them. One of the nicest ones was a Nagi (female cobra deity or snake daemon depending on who is talking) from below a temple in India. After doing her a kindness we became friends. She offered to bite me as a reward which would make me immortal she said. After declining immortality, it turned out she would bite me, I would die and then live in her world forever.

She genuinely liked me, but she has a wicked sense of humour. Also very aware that humans can be easily fooled especially when it comes to desires. She is very intelligent and has the most unique smile I have ever seen. Nagi discussed in this thread.

So basically what I am trying to say is; outside what humans regard as "good" is a vast world that is both dangerous and wonderous at the same time. That said, a city such as London or New York is also both dangerous and wonderous too. One just has to be street-wise.

"There are more wonders between heaven and earth Horatio, then dreamt of in your philosophies." -- Hamlet.

This is a nice world really, well, it could be . . .