My bepuzzlement with the males of this age continues to prove limitless.

a reply to: MysticPearl

Right and from everyone , if you ran and told on someone instead of dealing with it yourself you were a social pariah!

Well what I can say is that there would likely be less of this generation willing to fight in global wars so that cant be a bad thing right ?

Are males losing their aggression over time ?

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

7,000 stars for you.....

The boys are back in town.

originally posted by: c2oden

originally posted by: Kettu
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Well everyone freaks out in and displays their "triggering" in their own ways.

Some write volumes and volumes of text.

And some show their gender intolerance with a few lines of text.

We have doctors who will start telling the TRUTH about all things gender....it could be the libs who are the intolerant ones...or shall we say...CLOSED MINDED.

originally posted by: schuyler
Don't worry. Women want absolute equality, which is part of what has put us in this mess as the wimps have bought off on it, but when it comes to mating they still want the Bad Boys. We shall survive.

Must be fun pretending to be a tough guy on the internet...

...Mr. Retired Librarian lol...

You are the shining example of masculinity even though you probably never developed a callus your whole miserable librarian life.

I remember when I was doing construction, the librarians stole all my women away!

Edit:

Male Librarian?

That's just creepy bro...just saying...

a reply to: sapien82

REMOVED BY STAFF

When I was a university professor yes, but we all knew the male librarians never got any play (not from the females at least).

This is NO LONGER in the Mud Pit!!!

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and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

Wow, what an interesting thread, I've really learnt a lot.

It seems people really are quite confused about what makes a man a man and a woman a woman.

Reading this thread...some odd ideas about what makes a man a man. Should a man be gentle, caring and intellectual or should a man be brutish, tough and strong?

Since where were intelligence and strength mutually exclusive? Can one not be both?


Real men

The real men of history did great things - generals who won battles or scientists and engineers who studied the world and made great advances.

Take a man like Conor McGregor - here we have a man who is very strong, the modern embodiment of classical manliness. He likes to fight, he talks tough, confident.

Is he stupid? I'd say no, not at all..I don't like him much but he's certainly made some great achievments in his life...read about his background. When you learn more about Conor you start to see that he actually has a very human and caring side.

Now take a man like Tesla...strange, small, slight...loved a pigeon. Still a highly intelligent man who gave much to the world. Not the most confident person, not loutish or brutish at all.

In the interests of fairness let's look at someone like Boy George - a chap who dressed like a woman and sang Do you really want to hurt me?. One might argue that he was a big sissy...but it took courage, guts and quite a lot of mental fortitude for him to put himself out there...particularly back then when attitudes were a lot different. Boy Goerge is definitely a man, regardless of his personal characteristics...even the really camp ones.

Still a man.


Confusion

I think this thread is just an extension of a popular, modern narrative...that what makes a man a man can be attributed solely to social constructs.

Intelligence and stupidity are simply two ends of a spectrum...and strength and weakness are two ends of a different spectrum. It's possible to occupy a totally unique place on both spectrums at the same time...this is the essence of individuality. We're all a little or lot of something to some degree.

But in the end none of this makes a man a man...what makes a man a man is a penis. This has and will always be the case.

This is really just another take on the whole trans-confusion nonsense and what we're really arguing in the end is semantics...or how our personal interpretation or definition of a word differs from person to person. To me, a man is a human with a schlong. It really is that simple...he might have a penis and still cry at a chick flick, or laugh like a brute when he sees a child fall over and cut himself. Now, I know someone will come along and tell me I'm wrong...we simply occupy different positions on yet another spectrum and are again arguing semantics...the meaning of the word man as opposed to what the charactersitics of a man actually are. My definition of man is simply human with penis. He might cry when he sees a flower or he might chop the flower down and build something where it once stood...both men.

It's possible for a man to be stupid and weak the same as it's possible for a man to be smart and strong.

In fact, more of the great men through history had intelligence as well as braun. Generals won battles...generals were strong...generals were confident. Some generals were intelligent but were compassionate and caring enough to be kind and considerate off the battlfield.

I vaguely remember a nice quote from Robert W. Smith in the book Chinese boxing (a book that describes many tough real men who were as intelligent and gentle as they were tough) - combine the hardness of a wall with the softness of a butterflies wings.

a reply to: LungFuMoShi

However many would argue that even having a penis you can still live your whole life as a child / boy
without ever maturing into a man because you do not exhibit the qualities of a man

Compassion , Wisdom , Strength of character and physical strength

I'd like to elaborate somewhat on my last post and the book Chinese boxing as I think it's quite pertinent to this thread.

I first read the book about 15 years agow hen I was, ironically...into boxing and martial arts. I was the proverbial alpha-male....or at least trying to be back then. Ihad some interests, skills and talents that perhaps were seen as less manly...I was still drawing comic strips in my 20's...covertly, because I had this idea that it was childish and not a very manly pursuit. But the desire to do it still existed...what a quandry!

But there was always a gentler side to me, and try as I did to suppress it, it always won and would shine through.

I learned a lot from that book, but probably the most important lesson was to combine the hard and the soft, the internal and external.

T'ai Chi is a strange art that emphasises the importance of both the hard and soft. Many noted martial artists augmented the physical practises with more gentle activities.

Like calligraphy, painting, poetry. In China, a man who can recite peotry fluently is highly regarded. What we're taking about is the wests perception of manliness and it doesn't quite sit well the world over.

I learned to give in to myself...I like boxing, I like to train. I also enjoy programming, web development, art...I'm an illustrator. I play guitar...music is another area of study that requires at times harshness and even anger...on other occasionas demands one be gentle and more considerate. The point is I'mno longer trying to fit or occupy a pre-determined role...I'm neither alpha nor beta but somewhere in between. I exhibit characteristics from both sides and am a lot more comfortable with that now, it's the way to be.

It's the hardness of the wall combined with the softness of a butterflies wings.

My own...western view of what a man is, as well as being a human with a penis -- in social terms a man will provide security as well as companionship. A man will provide humor as well as know when to get the head down and take care of business. A man can be approachable, understanding, caring, witty or can be loud, aggressive and callous when necessary...and it can be necesary!

The real clincher is this - I expect the same from a woman. I don't expect her to cry at a chick flick but she can if she likes. Nor do I expect her to cook...but she might want to. Shemight be strong, athletic and at the same time considerate and intelligent. We all have different needs and tolerances.

There is no absolute set of attributes or characteristics that makes a man a man or a woman a woman apart from their physical bodies - physical attributes are set in stone but the jury's out on all else.

Highly recommend the book, by the way.

That is all.

a reply to: sapien82

I get you...

Still..who said those were the qualities of a man? The minute someone else honestly refutes that and offers a differing opinion it's back to square one.

We all have a different idea of what makes a man a man.

a reply to: schuyler

Giggiddy! hehe, kinda funny and ironic? or...?

a reply to: LungFuMoShi

well human history tells us that is the case , when we look at the stories of great people in our history they have all those qualities .

physical strength from when we were hunter gatherers , the ability to orate and pass on oral history, using wisdom and compassion are the hallmarks of humanity.

I thought that was set in stone , like literally set in stone

Cool I'll check out the book

a reply to: sapien82

Definitely, in western culture.

I think even if a man grows old and still acts and behaves like a boy, he is still a man. A boy is a male with a young body, a man is a male with an aged body. A boyis just a small man.

How they behave is really irrelevant...but it's still semantics. We're basically arguing over the meaning of the word man or our individual perception of it. None of us will win the debate.

It comes down to one simple question...is a man aman because he's surpassed a specific age or is a man a man because of how he behaves and carries himself? I'd go with the former but it really is just my opinion in the end.

I just can never get over the idea that what consitutes a man in the west might not necessarily constitute a man elsewhere. 15 years ago if one of my male friends told me they'd been writing poetry I'd have scoffed and probably mocked them.

Now I'd ask if I could read some of it. I don't see it as a masculine pursuit or a feminine one...I just see it as something that some people like to do. On the flip sideI don't expect all men will have the same interests as me...very few of my friends will sit and draw in their spare time, or even read a book or comic. Very few of them will train or even try tokeep fit..they're still dudes. Some of them are very childish and insecure but no less a man than me.

Anyway, enjoyed this thread, very insightful and worthy of a star and flag.

Thanks, OP.

You don't even know.

a reply to: LungFuMoShi

I thought that the Buddha was a measure of how a man or woman should be , also that lao tze recorded the qualities of men and women
and sun tzu , alot of the western ideals of humanity are derived directly from eastern esoteric teachings.

I still think the difference lies in the mental faculties rather than the physical , however age and wisdom go hand in hand so I can see that as you age you would mature into it and would become a man or woman.

but again I can see where you are right because take someone who is mentally disabled , they wouldnt be classed as a man or woman by these standards simply because they dont have the ability to display these qualities which society has set as the bar but thats not right in any sense to deny someone of manhood or womanhood simply because they lack the mental capacity.
Again with the physical a girl simply becomes a woman by virtue of menstruation and by growing breasts , and boys become men through the descent of their testicles and deepening of their voices.

it really does come down to what societal norms we humans have set for ourselves

originally posted by: ParasuvO
You don't even know.

However they know they dont know so therefore are wise