Time Travel and the Mandela Effect

a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw

A friend of mine and me experienced a similar "time glitch".

Ages ago I worked shifts with a friend of mine where we "produced" parts for cars ...if I remeber correctly we had to manufacture 800 parts on one shift in 8 hours to fullfill the daily demand of our employer e.g. 100 parts in one hour.

After you do a job some month you can pretty much say how many you you will manufacture ...if you talk much and do not bother it´s below the average and if you really focus you can do better then the average 800.

On one night shift we didn´t talk much and really "focused" yet we did only 700 that night and both of us were like ...WTF - where is that one hour we somehow missed.

It´s rather trivial but nevertheless none of us could explain why this did happen.

originally posted by: DupontDeux

1. x = 0.999...
2. 10 x = 9.999...
3. 10 x = 9 + 0.999...
4. 10 x = 9 + x
5. 9 x = 9
6. x=1
7. 0.999... = 1

I beg to differ.

Why do you assume in step 4. that x = 0,999... you just put in another variable and named it the same so you can substract it from the other X. You do not know X yet so you can not just transform 0,999 into X ...it should be Y (or whatever you want to name it) and then you can not substract it.

4. would be 10x = 9 + y
and then you can not solve the equation like you did.

I hate it, too ... but you are wrong

P.S.: OK DAMN, you might be right ...what I said may be wrong. Let me contemplate on it a bit and see if I can come up with something usefull to refute your argument :p

P.P.S. Ok ...got it. I think you are still wrong because the premise you started with is that x = 0,999... then X can´t be = 1 in the end.

Lets try to spin this and let´s say

1. x = 5
2. 10x = 50
3. 10x = 45 + 5
4. 10x = 45 + x
5. 9x = 45
6. x = 5

See ...same as what you started with. X has to be the same in 1. and in 6.

originally posted by: Whatever08152

originally posted by: DupontDeux

1. x = 0.999...
2. 10 x = 9.999...
3. 10 x = 9 + 0.999...
4. 10 x = 9 + x
5. 9 x = 9
6. x=1
7. 0.999... = 1

I beg to differ.

Why do you assume in step 4. that x = 0,999... you just put in another variable and named it the same so you can substract it from the other X. You do not know X yet so you can not just transform 0,999 into X ...it should be Y (or whatever you want to name it) and then you can not substract it.

4. would be 10x = 9 + y
and then you can not solve the equation like you did.

I hate it, too ... but you are wrong

P.S.: OK DAMN, you might be right ...what I said is wrong. Let me contemplate on it a bit and see if I can come up with something usefull to refute your argument :p

I believe I am right. (I do not assume x to be anything - i let it be 0.999... to start with.) It is a recognized proof.

Anyway, you are welcome to pm me, but I think that a lengthy back and forth here will be disruptive for the thread - this being somewhat off topic and all.

pls look at my edit

And I do not want to prove you wrong ...like I said I hate math and a discussion about math is the last I want on ATS.

a reply to: Whatever08152

I just realised that there is no formatting in pm's so .. sorry .. here I go


"P.P.S. Ok ...got it. I think you are stilll wrong because the premise you started with is that x = 0,999... then X can´t be = 1 in the end. "

Yeah, you would think so, right? But this is actually what the proof is about - it is. In math at least.

In real life, not so much (but then in real life there is no such thing as "zero point nine nine nine forever" - it exists purely in math).

The 'flaw' is that you cannot actually do the calculation. There is no way to actually, say, subtract 0.9999... from a number, because it goes on forever, so you would never be done with the subtraction - so in math we just assume that we can do it. And then we do it.

It is these pesky axioms that allow it.

I would, though, argue that it should be thought of as a limit - like when doing differential calculus.

Anyway, let me go through the proof step by step explaining what I do instead of just going from step to step. It might make more sense then.

1)
First I just define x.
I am saying that x is 0.999...

x = 0.999...

2)
Now I multiply on both sides (on both sides of the' =')
I multiply x by 10 and I multiply 0.999... by 10

10 x = 9.999...

3)
In step three I say, "right, 9.999... is of course the same as 0.999... plus 9" and write is at such. I do that so that I can rewrite the term in step 4.

10 x = 9 + 0.999...

4)
This is the clever part. Remember that in the start I defined x as 0.999.... This mean that I now have a term that contains x. 9 + 0.999... is the same as 9 + x.

10 x = 9 + x

5)
Here I do a simple subtraction. I subtract 1x from both sides, and that leaves me with a nice whole number on the right side, with which I can actually do some normal math.

9 x = 9

6)
This is just a simple division. If 9 x is 9 then 1 x is 1. I divide by 9 on both sides.

x=1

7)
I have proven that x = 1 and since that followed from the definition of x as 0.999... math says that they must be the same.

Or more simply put:

if
x = 0.999...
and
x = 1

then
0.999... = 1


Does that make sense?

In real life we might say that it is virtually the same as 1, but math sort of says that since the nines goes on forever, there is never a last decimal where they are *not* the same, so there is no actual difference and is thus *actually* the same.


This of course is where I argue that if there no last decimal, then it should be treated as "lim 1"; as if it approaches 1 but never does. Because it does not ... dammit!

(sometimes I just hate math...)

Anyway .. I hope this was helpful in understanding how in the weird world of math 0.999... and 1 are the same.

a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw


I bet you felt as befuddled as I did with them looking at you like youre the one who had lost their mind. I know I did. It was a big conversation over dinner. When youre are used to seeing something on your neck all your life and then it just disappears you certainly notice it.


Even more surprising to me was that my wife of 10 years at the point in time had no recollection of me ever having the mole to begin with, much less my conversation about missing it.


Some of my glitches out on the road when I'm driving are things like this. Some place the time it should take me to get there should be 6 minutes or so and Ive discovered I did it in 2, or something that should have only taken me probably 10 seconds has taken me 5 minutes. It is very weird.


Ive been listening to old Art Bell podcast while Ive been driving around. He actually had a guest that had built a "time machine." I believe this was back in 96. They called him Mad Mike? I know he spent some time in jail for some things he stole to get enough power up, but he was rebuilding and I know he had people willing to back him this time. I wonder what ever happened to him and his machine. I cant imagine the government letting someone get too close to getting it right.


My point though is if this guy was trying to do it, he probably isn't the only one that is a civilian trying to achieve it. Perhaps someone has been able to keep it quiet and did manage to jump. I imagine all kinds of things could go wrong if one managed to surprise themselves and it worked. Who knows where they may have ended up or what they accidently changed.

originally posted by: DupontDeux
Does that make sense?

Yes ...but you did not have to explain what you did in each step, thats 10th grade math (or 8th or 9th ...I don´t remember xD) that I was still able to follow in shool :p (and without understanding your equation how could I extend it to x = 5)

originally posted by: DupontDeux
The 'flaw' is that you cannot actually do the calculation. There is no way to actually, say, subtract 0.9999... from a number, because it goes on forever, so you would never be done with the subtraction - so in math we just assume that we can do it.

It is these pesky axioms that allow it.

This makes perfect sense and explains what you tried to tell me.

a reply to: Whatever08152

Sorry, I did not mean to come off as condescending, it is just that, you know .. math - it is better explained too much than too little .

originally posted by: onehuman
a reply to: AkontaDarkpaw


I bet you felt as befuddled as I did with them looking at you like youre the one who had lost their mind. I know I did. It was a big conversation over dinner. When youre are used to seeing something on your neck all your life and then it just disappears you certainly notice it.


Even more surprising to me was that my wife of 10 years at the point in time had no recollection of me ever having the mole to begin with, much less my conversation about missing it.


Some of my glitches out on the road when I'm driving are things like this. Some place the time it should take me to get there should be 6 minutes or so and Ive discovered I did it in 2, or something that should have only taken me probably 10 seconds has taken me 5 minutes. It is very weird.


Ive been listening to old Art Bell podcast while Ive been driving around. He actually had a guest that had built a "time machine." I believe this was back in 96. They called him Mad Mike? I know he spent some time in jail for some things he stole to get enough power up, but he was rebuilding and I know he had people willing to back him this time. I wonder what ever happened to him and his machine. I cant imagine the government letting someone get too close to getting it right.


My point though is if this guy was trying to do it, he probably isn't the only one that is a civilian trying to achieve it. Perhaps someone has been able to keep it quiet and did manage to jump. I imagine all kinds of things could go wrong if one managed to surprise themselves and it worked. Who knows where they may have ended up or what they accidently changed.

I have had drives that normally take 4hrs take 2 without speeding. I used cruise control but attempted to control how fast i arrived where i was going. Mainly because i was excited about getting there and kept glancing at the clock and watching everyone around me getting passed with very few exceptions.

I'm not saying i can control time or anything... though there are occultists and various practices that allegedly allow you to do such things. It's not something i have personally attempted to experiment with.

You're probably quite right about others attempting to create time machines and such.

I am not sure they're needed though. Humans are multidimensional beings to begin with, so time travel should be an innate ability. No one uses it though nor attempts it because reality says it can't be done.

That may be a different topic though

a reply to: onehuman

I don't have much to add yet, but just wanted to point out that it isn't "oddly enough" that Mandela is known to have died, he is the namesake of the phenomena after all. It would be kind of odd to call it that but not have an Effect related to him.

In any case I think your hypothesis is as good as anything, and better than most. I believe there is even evidence to prove that this is most likely the case, and will provide it in a separate thread next week hopefully.

Time travel to either prevent so called WW3 or cause WW3. Choose your pick. I have to say cause WW3 as US doesn't seem to be bringing out space tech for everyone. Even Hollywood was predicting US to hit space age.

I just came across an interesting post on an unrelated forum and thought i'd place the comment here...

Someone said that there could be matrix like implants...

Well here's a question.. supposing the ME exists and abductions which have affected a large number of the human population...

What if the point wasn't a hybrid program at all but an implantation program? What if the people who are affected by the ME either a) have such an implant but those unaffected don't or b) the implant is malfunctioning in those experiencing the ME?

Not saying the ME is real... just proposing an alternative theory.

a reply to: onehuman

Except time travel would cause catastrophic consequences. Not could, would. Simply stopping for 1 second for the time traveler who should not be there would change the entire world.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: onehuman

Except time travel would cause catastrophic consequences. Not could, would. Simply stopping for 1 second for the time traveler who should not be there would change the entire world.

That's not necessarily true at least not in any observable sense.

I don't change the world by my presence alone and neither does the average Joe.

If i go to walmart on a given day, i'm not going to change the world simply by not going... unless you're doing something to make history, or changing a fixed point there is no reason to believe the world would change on account of the presence of one individual.

I think that's a bit arrogant. No one is that important unless they're changing something major.

If someone is supposed to die in a car accident and a time traveler saves them, unless you're saving someone's life who was required to die in order for an event to occur then it would have about as much impact on history as stepping on an ant.

originally posted by: AkontaDarkpaw

That's not necessarily true at least not in any observable sense.

Of course you do. the man going home to make love to his wife who stops for 1 second due to your presence can be the difference between which sperm impregnates her. That will determine who their child is, their daughter is now their son .. because of a 1 second stop you caused.

The person whose life you saved in that car goes on to have a family .. people who never would have existed. the woman he marries marries HIM, not the other person who she had a child with in the original reality. The entire world is now permanently altered.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: AkontaDarkpaw

That's not necessarily true at least not in any observable sense.

Of course you do. the man going home to make love to his wife who stops for 1 second due to your presence can be the difference between which sperm impregnates her. That will determine who their child is, their daughter is now their son .. because of a 1 second stop you caused.

The person whose life you saved in that car goes on to have a family .. people who never would have existed. the woman he marries marries HIM, not the other person who she had a child with in the original reality. The entire world is now permanently altered.

Ridiculous.

originally posted by: AkontaDarkpaw

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: AkontaDarkpaw

That's not necessarily true at least not in any observable sense.

Of course you do. the man going home to make love to his wife who stops for 1 second due to your presence can be the difference between which sperm impregnates her. That will determine who their child is, their daughter is now their son .. because of a 1 second stop you caused.

The person whose life you saved in that car goes on to have a family .. people who never would have existed. the woman he marries marries HIM, not the other person who she had a child with in the original reality. The entire world is now permanently altered.

Ridiculous.

If by ridiculous you mean factual then yes. Don't blame me if your mind is incapable of seeing what is right in front of you.

You really think that of all the sperm released the exact same one will find it's mark under completely different circumstances? THAT is what is ridiculous.

In 250 million sperm cells you really think the exact same one will be the lucky winner no matter how the scenario changes? Ridiculous is right.

a reply to: onehuman

If time travel was somehow possible the probable implication is that we live in a multiverse where travel through time would place you in an alternate reality/timeline rather than your own.

Nature would have to implement such a rule so as to prevent paradox form possibly collapsing the timeline.

As to this supposed "Mandela Effect" well i imagine any change that occurred in our timeline would simply be imperceivable to us given the fact that we are part of said timeline.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: onehuman

If time travel was somehow possible the probable implication is that we live in a multiverse where travel through time would place you in an alternate reality/timeline rather than your own.

Nature would have to implement such a rule so as to prevent paradox form possibly collapsing the timeline.

As to this supposed "Mandela Effect" well i imagine any change that occurred in our timeline would simply be imperceivable to us given the fact that we are part of said timeline.

I respectfully disagree with the premise that time travel must involve any kind of multi-verse or parallel world. We (for a long while myself included) are stuck on the idea that our physical bodies and all the matter involved must traverse time in order to call it a success. I however would like to argue that this is too narrow of a perspective and we are completely missing the opportunity to investigate or discuss the possibility of consciousness without form or matter doing the traveling instead.

Not only is non-local consciousness better equipped to time travel it eliminates many of the paradoxes as well as mitigating some of the physical and theoretical danger. I personally think that it has most likely already been going on for a long, long time using tools provided by mother nature, but I think it can be done without psychoactive substances through meditation etc, as well as some other ways I am not even aware of. We could even be doing it every night when we go to sleep, and few ever suspect that they are anything but silly dreams. Who knows?

originally posted by: sputniksteve

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: onehuman

If time travel was somehow possible the probable implication is that we live in a multiverse where travel through time would place you in an alternate reality/timeline rather than your own.

Nature would have to implement such a rule so as to prevent paradox form possibly collapsing the timeline.

As to this supposed "Mandela Effect" well i imagine any change that occurred in our timeline would simply be imperceivable to us given the fact that we are part of said timeline.

I respectfully disagree with the premise that time travel must involve any kind of multi-verse or parallel world. We (for a long while myself included) are stuck on the idea that our physical bodies and all the matter involved must traverse time in order to call it a success. I however would like to argue that this is too narrow of a perspective and we are completely missing the opportunity to investigate or discuss the possibility of consciousness without form or matter doing the traveling instead.

Not only is non-local consciousness better equipped to time travel it eliminates many of the paradoxes as well as mitigating some of the physical and theoretical danger. I personally think that it has most likely already been going on for a long, long time using tools provided by mother nature, but I think it can be done without psychoactive substances through meditation etc, as well as some other ways I am not even aware of. We could even be doing it every night when we go to sleep, and few ever suspect that they are anything but silly dreams. Who knows?

Interesting perspective. Though i would call this astral travel or projection as you're not limited to time travel nor a single dimension.