Facing GOP opposition, Senate leaders postpone vote to overhaul Obamacare

originally posted by: Skorpy
a reply to: Willtell

Actually, not all those 22 million will be kicked off, it will be their choice to get it or not. Now at least they will not be unconstitutionally, fined on their taxes now. If they decide to opt out of getting insurance at all.

The problem, as I see it, is that the guy who decides to "opt out" of insurance can't opt out of getting sick or injured. Then he goes to the ER, where they must treat him. He then gets the monstously large bill and can't, or won't, pay it. The hospital then jacks up the bill of everyone who does pay to cover the loss caused by him not paying, so you and I are involuntarily made to act as his insurance company. Except he doesn't pay premiums to you or me. Isn't it fairer to mandate personal responsibility. Or provide for universal coverage with a single payor system.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Trumpamania

Yes. People get sick and this all falls back on to the point that the ACA isn't perfect. It's JUST an improvement. An improvement can be marginal you know?

Or politicians can say its an improvement but in the end the Supreme Court just sees a tax and the average working guy just gets forced to pay for somebody else's insurance when they can barely afford their own.

originally posted by: Trumpamania

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Trumpamania

Yes. People get sick and this all falls back on to the point that the ACA isn't perfect. It's JUST an improvement. An improvement can be marginal you know?

Or politicians can say its an improvement but in the end the Supreme Court just sees a tax.

Politicians aren't just saying this. Data collected surrounding the bill says this too, even if you want to call it a tax (it's not like all taxes are bad anyways... so I'm not sure why this label is supposed be so horrific in the first place)

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Trumpamania

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Trumpamania

Yes. People get sick and this all falls back on to the point that the ACA isn't perfect. It's JUST an improvement. An improvement can be marginal you know?

Or politicians can say its an improvement but in the end the Supreme Court just sees a tax.

Politicians aren't just saying this. Data collected surrounding the bill says this too, even if you want to call it a tax (it's not like all taxes are bad anyways... so I'm not sure why this label is supposed be so horrific in the first place)

You are free to believe what you will and I have learned that you can't change most peoples minds, so good luck with all of that. I will just sit back and enjoy watching the best show on TV. The Republicans will intentionally fail to pass repeal/replace, more of the ACA will go into effect, more people will get screwed and then pissed, the economy will bog down and my man Trump will have a field day driving the final nails in the Democratic coffin as I sit back and lmao.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

lol. Nope. That is why it is called Obama Care. The failure will lay on Obama's and the lefts shoulders.

originally posted by: F4guy

originally posted by: Skorpy
a reply to: Willtell

Actually, not all those 22 million will be kicked off, it will be their choice to get it or not. Now at least they will not be unconstitutionally, fined on their taxes now. If they decide to opt out of getting insurance at all.

The problem, as I see it, is that the guy who decides to "opt out" of insurance can't opt out of getting sick or injured. Then he goes to the ER, where they must treat him. He then gets the monstously large bill and can't, or won't, pay it. The hospital then jacks up the bill of everyone who does pay to cover the loss caused by him not paying, so you and I are involuntarily made to act as his insurance company. Except he doesn't pay premiums to you or me. Isn't it fairer to mandate personal responsibility. Or provide for universal coverage with a single payor system.

This is a deceptive argument.

The problem isn't that people can't pay the huge bill. It's the fact that the bill is huge in the first place. Which was done on purpose to force us into this corner and box us in so that we'd agree to let them sabotage freedom. They chose healthcare specifically because they knew everyone would need it sooner or later. So they rigged the system to price it out of reach for most people so they would be forced to allow a middle man into the mix.

The middle man (obviously) is the insurance company. The insurance company doesn't make healthcare cheaper. It just sells it to you on a payment plan. Like a mortgage. Except you may not ever actually need a fraction of the money you put in. And in fact, they're counting on it. Or were. Which is why they didn't want undesirables (people with preexisting conditions).

But of course the totalitarians saw a golden opportunity there. They knew this could not possibly last. So, they have just been sitting back and waiting for the average fool to beg them to step in and take over the entire healthcare system. Which will (in the end) give the government absolute power over everything in your life.

They will tell you what to eat and how to eat it. They'll tell you how much you can eat. They'll tell you you're not allowed to be overweight and they will punish you if you don't obey. They will send you to a shrink if they deem your ways of thinking to be wrong. The shrink will literally lock you up if you don't cooperate. And they'll keep you locked up until they break you. This is how socialists operate.

If you think about what they're trying to accomplish you will see that totalitarianism is the only thing that can possibly make it work in a sustainable fashion. Therefore, totalitarianism must be their ultimate goal.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I've been attending my House Rep's field office meetings this year. (If people can't attend their House Rep's meetings, check YouTube, as it might have been filmed) It's getting brutal out there on this topic alone. Even longtime Republicans are standing up voicing opposition and calling for single payer, unheard of in my lifetime. At another local meeting before the one here, the field rep arrived with armed security, something else unheard of!

Trump/Ryancare is symbolically important to the Republican Party. The Koch GOP goal is to dismantle and privatize govt except military, police, and courts, leaving We The People in corporate hands w/o rights. The Kochsuckers all along have intended to suck money out of govt ("tax cuts" ex) in order to "make it small enough to drown in a bathtub".

It really is MAGAA!! Make America Gilded Age Again. Backward to the Future!

a reply to: desert

I've been following the Town Hall craziness across the country over this. Expect some good stories to come this weekend when Congress goes home for recess. I really need to get out and participate myself.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yep. People are upset. People taking to the streets, to all their Rep meetings, to the phones to call their Congressional members, to writing and emailing their Congressional members, it's all having an effect. And there are multiple fronts on which to fight, take one's pick, whether it's bills like this one or voter "turnout control" efforts by the GOP or any multiple of other concerns.

In our form of govt, voting is necessary but not sufficient. That is why the Founding Leaders enshrined certain rights. Amendment One, first and foremost. First and foremost.

Congressional members are usually in Washington but have state and local offices, run by staff. Some of the staff are "field reps", who keep busy going out to various outer lying areas of the district, to conduct "field office" or "mobile office" meetings, usually once a month. I live in an outer lying area, so once a month my Rep's field reps show up in my town. They also show up once a month on different days in other towns in my general area.

Citizens are rising up now, which is making our Legislative and Executive branches nervous and fearful. For ex, my field office mtngs were usually attended by only three to six people a month, usually to help people with specific concerns.... since January more people are starting to attend, to where now at least 30 people show up. (I live in a rural area, so that number is good for here ) Meetings used to run one hour, but now the field reps know they need more time.

Yes, the meetings are at a time when many people are working, but now some people are filming and putting meetings online, so it might be possible to at least see what happened. Attend vicariously

People go to either speak or support speakers. My first mting I went to speak up, but there were so many people who spoke up that i was never able to speak, but I listened to very passionate speeches, some short, some longer. Now I go to listen and support. Since January the mtngs have had to move to larger and larger rooms, and, still, at the last one people were standing.

Here is a link to a resource guide that was helpful to get started, read online or print out.

indivisible guide

Americans must remember that voting is necessary but not sufficient. First Amendment, First and Foremost.