Beware Parents - Canada's new 'gender identity' law.

It is logical for the state to intervene in extreme cases, but extreme for the state to intervene in all cases. Most children who claim transgender status related to gender expression are not of the category of extreme belief, and have no more desire to be the opposite sex than their desire to be a doctor, astronaut, or transforming robot from a film. Children are magnetically drawn to powerful role models, and for centuries, countless females have desired to be men, not because of a gender identity disorder or gender dysphoria in the biological sense, but a rejection of their biological sex because of a sense of cultural oppression as that sex. The desire for missed opportunities exists even today in many countries. In particular, there is a country where a family without a son is allowed to raise one of their daughters as a boy for several years, obtaining a completely different wardrobe, name, skill set, and educational path.

www.theguardian.com...

Because of several action films, manga, anime, and popular television, as well as changes in the focus on different historical figures, many female role models are coming to the forefront, at the same time males are increasingly depicted as being of inferior moral and intellectual quality. This is creating a gradual role reversal in role models, at the same time children are being taught they can be anything, including the opposite sex, or somewhere in between on a spectrum.

However, historically, transgender people have always existed. They exist in the Mahabharata. They exist in the Tanakh. They exist in ancient tribal traditions. In addition to always existing, they have always been rare. The exception may be where surgery, culture, or chemicals in diet or in the water creates a hormonal imbalance causing conflicts in the thought patterns during child development. Some claim, as a side effect of the industrial revolution, or the use of polymers and binders like Bisphenol, which act as xenoestrogens, that there is an uptick on children with secondary sex characteristics of the opposite sex.

Knowing therefore, that these children exist, even if in an extremely rare quantity, it seems prudent to question the reaction of parents. That reaction can sometimes be positive, neutral, or negative, but in many cases with this particular issue, it can be life threatening either directly, through physical abuse, or indirectly, as the transgender children are among the most suicidal (and successful at those attempts) demographic group.

The state, having an obligation to protect the lives of children, may be called upon to intervene, and take custody of children where their lives are in peril. That is likely the moral justification behind this legal overreach.

n/m

a reply to: silo13

Since most of them grow out of it, the kids themselves eventually don't accept it. What can we do to punish them now I wonder ...

These hormones we put in our animals to produce more is messing with the hormones within us. I can see a small percentage of mutations in the DNA and the genome to change the sexual identity of ab individual. I believe the high percentage of these gender confused humans is to much estrogen for males and testosterone for females.

It's wasn't till just recently that we found baby powder to cause ovarian cancer. Even worse. An ADD med that was force feed to our children that gave males breasts.

There's something seriously wrong with the food we eat and the water we drink.

I do feel for Canada. To be able to remove children from homes.

There's absolutely no way that would succeed is the states.

I would love to see the the government try and remove my children.

Quote by Rickymouse:

Why is government getting involved in this. Kids do not know anything about gender choice, they should only be able to choose after they are old enough to do it, the human mind does not totally mature till around twenty four years old, at eighteen it is fairly well developed. Kids are too impressionable before that, they could make hasty decisions. They have not developed the ability to reason.

I totally agree with this part of your statement Ricky. Young children that haven't even gone through puberty yet don't understand what it is being a sexually mature male or female, they couldn't possibly understand gender before they actually even experience it as a physically mature human being. How can anyone understand their sexuality if they haven't even experienced sex? The people who created this law must believe that children are sexually active at a very young age. I suppose they will have to lower the legal age of consent so children can understand their natural gender first before having their sex organs altered for life (the pedos would be all for that no doubt).

Imagine the problems that would arise if a young child is surgically altered into another gender, only to find they made a mistake as an adult. That thought is horrible to me, but it is worse to see children used this way by adults to push a political agenda (though the law no less) that the kids don't completely understand.

originally posted by: ConscienceZombie
These hormones we put in our animals to produce more is messing with the hormones within us. I can see a small percentage of mutations in the DNA and the genome to change the sexual identity of ab individual. I believe the high percentage of these gender confused humans is to much estrogen for males and testosterone for females.

It's wasn't till just recently that we found baby powder to cause ovarian cancer. Even worse. An ADD med that was force feed to our children that gave males breasts.

There's something seriously wrong with the food we eat and the water we drink.

I do feel for Canada. To be able to remove children from homes.

There's absolutely no way that would succeed is the states.

I would love to see the the government try and remove my children.

Children don't have estrogen or testosterone to any viable degree before puberty so that theory doesn't make sense.

Gender dysphoria develops in the womb, anyway. Now... you might be able to make a case for environmental factors for the pregnant person but, whatever you theorize as the cause would have to have been present for millennia since it's been around as far back as we can see.

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
Quote by Rickymouse:

Why is government getting involved in this. Kids do not know anything about gender choice, they should only be able to choose after they are old enough to do it, the human mind does not totally mature till around twenty four years old, at eighteen it is fairly well developed. Kids are too impressionable before that, they could make hasty decisions. They have not developed the ability to reason.

I totally agree with this part of your statement Ricky. Young children that haven't even gone through puberty yet don't understand what it is being a sexually mature male or female, they couldn't possibly understand gender before they actually even experience it as a physically mature human being. How can anyone understand their sexuality if they haven't even experienced sex? The people who created this law must believe that children are sexually active at a very young age. I suppose they will have to lower the legal age of consent so children can understand their natural gender first before having their sex organs altered for life (the pedos would be all for that no doubt).

Imagine the problems that would arise if a young child is surgically altered into another gender, only to find they made a mistake as an adult. That thought is horrible to me, but it is worse to see children used this way by adults to push a political agenda (though the law no less) that the kids don't completely understand.

Some people may think I am cold hearted for my comments sometimes. But it would be cold hearted to have your kid change his sex before they even understood about how these hormones worked in the body, they cannot comprehend that things might change. I do not think parents should support their kids with changing sex identity, but not condemn them either, it may just be a phase, kids go through phases as they learn to deal with life. But for parents to reinforce their childs ideas when they are young without advising them to just wait and see is crazy. I know people who jump to support their kids going through phases and they keep the kid in that phase for way longer than it normally would last. Kids learn and then change direction, they do not need someone influencing to keep going in the direction they chose earlier, they need someone to point out that there are different paths available. But also inform them their life might be easier if they wait to alter things because they are not mature yet and they do not yet know what they will want for the rest of their life.

If someone decides to be gay, they can make a change back to being heterosexual again, if they make a change it is much harder to return. Parents that reinforce every whim their child has are not real parents, they need to steer their kid to the right path. With sex identity, they need to explain to their kids how they feel now may change in the future when they go through puberty and they become adults. I think that there should be a law against parents trying to turn their kids away from their birth identity, I do see this happening and it is not right, we need to let our kids find their own way and also we should try to teach them not to follow others on possible fads like this. Once you get sucked into this, it is hard to go back and also expensive.

Once a person becomes an adult, they have the right to do whatever they want as long as they do not try to shove their ways on kids. even their own. My father made sure I went to sunday school and got confirmed even though he did not go to church except on Easter and Christmas and for funerals and the sort. He told me that Christianity had a lot of good ways to it. He told me I must learn about it so I could find my own path later in life. I could keep it up or not, but must respect the rights of others. I now study multiple religions, I want to understand the similarities and differences.

I am seeing a disturbing trend in society lately, there are more people shoving their beliefs down the throats of others than there ever has been, the beliefs are strongly liberal as far as life goes, these people will use all sorts of Ad hominem tactics to bash anyone who does not believe as they do. These people do not respect anyone who seem to go against how they believe.

a reply to: silo13

Thoughts upon the matter are once you are 18 and legal adult do as you bloody well please, until then you are the responsibility of your parents and will like it or not abide by the rules of their home. Including self mutilation. (gender reassignment, tattoos, piercings, all of it)

a reply to: rickymouse

It's also cold hearted to ignore your kid until it's too late.

The note reportedly written by Alcorn detailed her experience coming out as gay and wrote that her peers and school were receptive, but that her parents were not. She said she was taken to Christian therapists, who did not help her overcome her depression.

"After 10 years of confusion I finally understood who I was. I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn't make mistakes, that I am wrong," the note states.

"The only way I will rest in peace is if one day transgender people aren't treated the way I was," reads the post. "They're treated like humans, with valid feelings and human rights. Gender needs to be taught about in schools, the earlier the better. My death needs to mean something."

abcnews.go.com...

Why are LGBT kids so much more at risk? Two main reasons: lack of parental support for their gender/sexual identity, and school bullying. An alarmingly high number of LGBT teens are rejected by their parents; urban shelters are packed with LGBT kids forced to leave home because of parental rejection, and LGBT kids are physically abused by adults in their families more frequently than other children. The consequence of this lack of parental support is significant. Studies have shown that having the support of parents is a buffer for LGBT teens against the criticism and judgment of the world outside the family. Another study found that gender-nonconforming children who are supported by their parents develop fewer behavior problems than those whose parents tried to punish or suppress their gender expression.

www.goodtherapy.org...

Sure, most children and teens go through “phases” – like only wearing all black, dying their hair, being obsessed with a certain band or asking to go by a nickname – but being transgender is not a phase, and trying to dismiss it as such can be harmful during a time when your child most needs support and validation.

Trying to change your child’s gender identity – either by denial, punishment, reparative therapy or any other tactic – is not only ineffective; it is dangerous and can do permanent damage to your child’s mental health. So-called “reparative” or “conversion” therapies, which are typically faith-based, have been uniformly condemned as psychologically harmful by the American Psychological Association, the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and numerous similar professional organizations.

www.hrc.org...

Oh, and you don't "decide" to be gay, any more than you decide to have gender dysphoria.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Ya..this is NOT a fact..all manner of behaviors are affected by all kinds of changes...decisions.

Your stance that everything is determined at birth is parroted loudly..but not true in ALOT of cases.

I visit the worst drug filled areas...and those people disagree LARGELY.

a reply to: silo13
It's odd you missed this part,

In April, a Christian couple filed a lawsuit against Hamilton Children's Aid Society for removing two foster children from their home because they refused to lie to the girls by saying that the Easter bunny is real.
"We have a no-lying policy," Derek Baars, one of the foster parents, said at the time, pointing out that a child support worker insisted that he and his wife, Frances Baars, tell the two girls in their care, aged 3 and 4, the Easter bunny is real.

A Source from Your Source

It's about much more than gender identity.

The law, which replaces old laws governing child protection, foster care and adoption services, instructs all child services and judges, to take into consideration a child’s “race, ancestry, place of origin, color, ethnic origin, citizenship, family diversity, disability, creed, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression.”

From Your Source
If you set aside your "knee jerk reactions" for a minute and consider the possibilities like removing children because you refuse to lie to them and are forced to tell them that the Easter Bunny or Santa Clause are real then maybe this law might make sense. You might notice that it is not just about gender identity.

Why do so many care about the gender identity of people that they will probably never meet?.
My first thought is, who cares?
Do you feel this law is an attack on your Christian values?
I like people and feel they can identify as they like so long as they don't insult or assault me I'm okay with it.

My guess is that this law would be seen quite differently if foster parents were forcing a boy to identify as a girl and made him wear dresses every day.

By the way kaylaluv, you're awesome!

originally posted by: kaylaluv
That's okay, she can live with me. I will love her and take care of her.

a reply to: kaylaluv

If your kids are not embarassed by you because you are too outspoken, then they will talk to you. If the kids feel comfortable talking to their parents without having their parents blab everything to friends, then they will tell them things. Also, if the parents are there it helps, most mothers seem to be working and obsessed with their jobs and getting ahead nowadays. Our new system of disolving the family actually makes it much worse for a kid to feel like someone's son or daughter.

Most of the kids I knew that went astray did so because their parents were too busy or were stressed from their jobs and took it out on their kids.

It is a balancing act of letting your kids have freedoms and still keep them on the right path.

The gay or sex identification issue is not something you are born with. It has more to do with diet and upbringing than heredity. I spent two days checking all of what I was hearing with genetics, it is only marginally relevant. Epigenetics forms brainstructure, altering diet can alter the way we think, no matter what the genetics.

I was never driven by testosterone, yet I was married twice and had two kids. I was infatuated with sex when I was young because I believed I was supposed to be because of how others talked about it. I got along with girls and guys as equals which means I probably was neutral hormone wise. Sex has never really driven my life, I enjoyed foosball and pool more than dating when I was younger. I liked outdoor activities and parties. People who think our sex actually matters are so screwed up on hormone boosting foods that they are out of touch with reality. We are all human beings, none of us are exactly alike, we are what we know and believe. If you believe you should be a girl instead of a boy, then maybe someone should just tell you it doesn't matter. I study hormones extensively in my research and on their influence on development, do not feed your kids soy and watch how much corn they eat. Watch the bananas and some grains. All these things adjust the hormones and effect brain development.

I have no problem with someone being gay, that is their choice. I would say parents should try to discourage it with their children but not take it to heart if they wind up on that path. It is ultimately the kids choice. I have seen kids being pushed to do things by friends in the respect of changing sex. The kid pushing just seems to think they want to help the person to do the right thing. It goes from going through a phase to being pushed into something you may someday regret. I know both of these kids well, the girl talked the boy into doing it, the boy actually wants to go out with girls but isn't that cute so nobody including that girl would go out with him. The right way to do it was to help the kid through depression and talk to him and tell him it does not matter. That boy is spending all of his inheritance from his grandparents on that sex change and he still will be paying more in the future, all his life. I am seeing this whole thing as a sales scam coming from the rich.

If people cannot see that this is happening they are blind. This social conditioning is being driven by the people who actually profit by it. The doctors mention how happy it made the person, yes, the person got something they want so it boosted opiate release by the brain. But farther down the line after the buzz wears off, many of these people are even more depressed, especially since they are way broker than they used to be. I am looking at the side effect.

Even someone who goes see Benny Hinn gets a high and temporary healing that happens, till the buzz wears off. You see the opiates created by the brain actually trigger healing properties at the cellular level via endocannabinoid receptor activity. But this is only temporary because Benny is not a real healer, he does not have that power. I pick on Benny only because he is one of these people doing this. I actually understand how it works somewhat.

I would say diet changes and some therapy to teach the kid to understand that it really is not that important what sex we are. It is more important in what we do with our lives, how honest and truthful we are. We need to stop the macho and meanful behavior of the school kids, they are causing the problem with this. The people who bully and cut down others need to be reconditioned to allow others to just be who they are without making them feel inferior. I was a nerd in school, I could not run and jump because I would hurt my joints and ankles. But I liked science and I liked to take things apart and use the parts to build or fix things. I was not an athlete, and the people who believed that athletic people were the cat's meow kind of ignored me. I was happy, those people were shallow anyway. Then I got skinny and tall and athletic when I turned sixteen, in that one summer. These people were then after me to become their friend because now I was kinda cute. I did not abandon my old friends but did not shun the ones wanting to be my friends but knew these were fairweather friends.


This solution of sex change is a treatment, not the solution. Society is the problem, we are run by opinionated people who cannot see things other than they believe or know to be true. If someone gets a sex change as an adult I have no problem, but don't push others into getting it, just tell them you accept them the way they are as a friend.

a reply to: rickymouse

I'm sorry, I don't want to be mean, but you don't know what you're talking about regarding sexual orientation and gender dysphoria.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: rickymouse

I'm sorry, I don't want to be mean, but you don't know what you're talking about regarding sexual orientation and gender dysphoria.

That's okay because, to be honest, I don't think any of us know what we are talking about when it comes to gender identity. I strongly feel it is important to listen and learn rather than shut yourself off and dictate your values, however right or wrong they may be, to everyone around you. I am more concerned with the anger that this subject incites in people than those with gender identity problems.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: rickymouse

It's also cold hearted to ignore your kid until it's too late.

The note reportedly written by Alcorn detailed her experience coming out as gay and wrote that her peers and school were receptive, but that her parents were not. She said she was taken to Christian therapists, who did not help her overcome her depression.

"After 10 years of confusion I finally understood who I was. I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn't make mistakes, that I am wrong," the note states.

"The only way I will rest in peace is if one day transgender people aren't treated the way I was," reads the post. "They're treated like humans, with valid feelings and human rights. Gender needs to be taught about in schools, the earlier the better. My death needs to mean something."

abcnews.go.com...

Why are LGBT kids so much more at risk? Two main reasons: lack of parental support for their gender/sexual identity, and school bullying. An alarmingly high number of LGBT teens are rejected by their parents; urban shelters are packed with LGBT kids forced to leave home because of parental rejection, and LGBT kids are physically abused by adults in their families more frequently than other children. The consequence of this lack of parental support is significant. Studies have shown that having the support of parents is a buffer for LGBT teens against the criticism and judgment of the world outside the family. Another study found that gender-nonconforming children who are supported by their parents develop fewer behavior problems than those whose parents tried to punish or suppress their gender expression.

www.goodtherapy.org...

Sure, most children and teens go through “phases” – like only wearing all black, dying their hair, being obsessed with a certain band or asking to go by a nickname – but being transgender is not a phase, and trying to dismiss it as such can be harmful during a time when your child most needs support and validation.

Trying to change your child’s gender identity – either by denial, punishment, reparative therapy or any other tactic – is not only ineffective; it is dangerous and can do permanent damage to your child’s mental health. So-called “reparative” or “conversion” therapies, which are typically faith-based, have been uniformly condemned as psychologically harmful by the American Psychological Association, the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and numerous similar professional organizations.

www.hrc.org...

Oh, and you don't "decide" to be gay, any more than you decide to have gender dysphoria.

Your post really spoke to me. That suicide letter made me teary eyed. It's truly sad that so many would rather disown or denounce their own children..their own flesh and blood because of something like that. Instead...they'd rather have blind faith in religious hokum...religious 'faith' that holds back progress and teaches judgement and intolerance.

Your posts are spot on. This is what it' always been about...those against it feel threatened. They feel their opinions being threatened on all fronts. Their religion is being threatened. Their concepts of the nuclear family being the only acceptable family is being threatened. I'm about acceptance...in the right way. There are ways to be supportive...even if a child doesn't fully understand who or what they are. I don't agree with parents who 'push' their children towards breaking the ideas of gender because it's trendy now...but...if a child finds it within themselves and feels it within themselves all on their own...I do believe it is important to be loving, understanding and supportive. This avoids unnecessary suicides...I can't imagine how unloved the poor child must have felt before ending their life so early...

I don't like the agenda that is occurring, as liberal as I am. I am fully in support of people being who they want to be and with people being who they feel they are. The only problem I don't like is the pushing of the concepts that is going on...only because I don't like blatant pushing in any direction, much the same as I would not like it if I saw pushing towards religion. I don't want to be a pawn in the pronoun war....though I will admit part of me feels like all of this pushing so far in one direction is needed to cause a change...even if small. People's minds are still so limited and closed due to religious bigotry and ignorance...it breeds hatred and intolerance so much so that the left needs to push sooooo far in the opposite direction in the way of these gender identity wars in hopes that the wild, harsh force might help the bigotry shift even a little bit towards progress.

If only the world would drop the religious game..think for themselves instead of needing to be told by a stupid book..if only it wasn't considered 'sick and perverted' to not live by nuclear/conservative standards. The more we progress...the more people are waking up to the fact that religion is a joke. The more that happens...the more wildly open people are becoming and the more there is this push for radical acceptance. Even if, as I mentioned, I'm not on board with being forced to participate in the pronoun war...I still believe in respect and tolerance. If I meet a trans and they wish to be called she or he...I am going to, out of respect, refer to them as they wish. It's an individual case by case basis...but calling someone who was born with a penis a "she" does not hurt anyone.

So..who the hell cares?

Oh..I forgot who we're arguing with. You're going to tell me you care because God cares.

Because God cares about gender identity but doesn't care about the millions that die around the world from war, famine and other atrocities. That # can stay..but don't you dare think about calling yourself a girl if you were born with a penis. That's just sick and wrong!

originally posted by: Devino

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: rickymouse

I'm sorry, I don't want to be mean, but you don't know what you're talking about regarding sexual orientation and gender dysphoria.

That's okay because, to be honest, I don't think any of us know what we are talking about when it comes to gender identity. I strongly feel it is important to listen and learn rather than shut yourself off and dictate your values, however right or wrong they may be, to everyone around you. I am more concerned with the anger that this subject incites in people than those with gender identity problems.

I appreciate your post, of being willing to be open and learn.

Kaylaluv knows what she is talking about. She is the one you should pay attention to if you really want to learn.

I think we need a more neutral parenting path. Children wouldn't need to be pushed into making big decisions so early if we didn't enforce ideas on them. why cant a boy wear dresses or girls have short hair, its just fashion, so petty freaking out because a child doesn't follow a stereotype. Let them be who they want to be, and the state wouldn't need to step in to protect children from abuse.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: silo13

Since most of them grow out of it, the kids themselves eventually don't accept it. What can we do to punish them now I wonder ...

Not sure I understand the last part of your post.

Thanks

peace

a reply to: ReyaPhemhurth

I don't like the agenda that is occurring, as liberal as I am. I am fully in support of people being who they want to be and with people being who they feel they are. The only problem I don't like is the pushing of the concepts that is going on...only because I don't like blatant pushing in any direction, much the same as I would not like it if I saw pushing towards religion. I don't want to be a pawn in the pronoun war.

Great post! Just when I am tired of the replies here on ATS and am thinking about not coming back I read something like this. Thank you.

People's minds are still so limited and closed due to religious bigotry and ignorance...it breeds hatred and intolerance so much so that the left needs to push sooooo far in the opposite direction in the way of these gender identity wars in hopes that the wild, harsh force might help the bigotry shift even a little bit towards progress.

Unfortunately this does not appear to be working. I would like to think that I am wrong and what we are hearing/seeing are the death cries from those that are resisting change but I have my doubts. There appears to be much more hatred and intolerance in social media recently. How does one identify an identity problem?