Debunking the Debunkers??? Help here

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

No, my point is, having noticing how classical skeptical react towards a case, I just pointed out that they are utterly disonest in dealing with the subject, and that is not even controversial, it is a matter of fact.

Again, you can say "but there are 1000's of reports...". However, the volume of reports does not necessarily mean that one or more of those reports are necessarily cases of alien visitation. The 12,000+ Blue Book reports and the hundreds-of-thousands of other reports could all still be NOT proof of alien visitation.

Sure, there are some reports that (as reported) defy terrestrial explanation, but that does not mean a terrestrial explanation does not exist. It is a fallacy to say "we can't find a terrestrial explanation for a sighting; therefore, it MUST have been an alien craft".

OMG, you are seriously spinning stuff here. They already did this distinction, the unknowns are the ones who demonstrated intelligent/artificial behaviour, and they were about 5%, look at the data, and stop spilling generalisations yourself. Socorro case it is either a lie or a real case, with scientific investigation, as so many others. There are just too many of them, so I must assume you have not been doing your homework and reading the literature. You haven't been aware that despite the Government agencies claim they did not study the phenomena , they actually did, and the FOIA just came out to prove that. Why would they lie if it was not a thing?

originally posted by: flamengo

The Drake equation is equally flawed as at this moment in time, we only have irrefutable proof of life on one planet. Any extrapolation based on such a small sample pool has its own inherent risks.

In terms of accepted theory you are right, but if you research anomalies of the Moon and Mars then your proposition is wrong. Could be right for the rest of the galaxy, but if you take the mediocrity principle, then you can elaborate that it may be as occupied or has been occupied but generates a weak signal.

Seriously Moon & Mars anomalies if that's what you base your position on then
Just because science fiction is full of faster than light travel etc etc doesn't mean it's possible or will ever happen also just assuming a race can get far enough advance to solve anything is another FLAWED assumption.

a reply to: wmd_2008

It is one of the bases of my assumptions, and I guess you have not researched none of that, actually haven't researched nothing but is sure it is not a thing. Well done.

Regarding to travel faster than the speed of light, I am not saying it is possible, I am saying a lot of scientist believe it is a thing, the effect of gravity comes 20 times faster than the speed of light, the spooky effect is 20000 faster than the speed of light, that should open up a full avenue for research right there.

The rest of the assumptions is to study the ufo data and how the powers to be react to them, and of course it is very telling.

a reply to: flamengo

You don't know people on here you have been here 5 mins and your the expert I have probably had an interest in space and whats out there for I'll make a guess longer than you have been alive

Many of us on here are involved on this thread Calling All Astrophotgraphers all long time photographers some with good to pro level equipment and THOUSANDS of hours out there on cold dark nights, yet the people with the SKILL & EQUIPMENT to get good images never see Mog from Zog strange don't you think.

Start a thread with your Moon & Mars claims but search on here first because it's be DEBUNKED before.

a reply to: wmd_2008

Fair enough, I will not get involved with an off topic such as Mars and Moon anomalies, if the curiosity photos are real, you just need to study them, don't need to go any further. And no, to my understanding they have not been debunked, as I found stuff myself, and it was really fast in finding it.
Regarding to UFOs, if you want to understand how it works, if it is real or not, I don't know if I can help, because it is a really clever event. I guess at least I am kind of lucky have seen from close range those things, so I don't have any doubt, but for people out there, if you do want to know about it, you got to first to study the data, and second to open your mind, they do not act in the way you expect, it is utterly non sense in believing so, it just demonstrate how non knowledgeable you are.
Also I must point it out, that the data shows that those guys are telepathic, so why not research this part as well?
The downside of it all, is that, if you do get the picture of the thing, the real picture, nothing that the common man believes is actually reliable, you will discover that you have been lied over and over again, so it is very daring indeed.
Good luck out there if you wish to try.
And no, I never stayed late at night with a camera trying to catch it.

a reply to: flamengo

ANYONE seriously into filming ufo's should save up and get one of theses below that would probably end the arguments so maybe that's why they dont

I think one tactic skeptics often use is to cherry pick cases or details of cases that dont easily support their conclusion. Shermer does that a lot, drives me nuts. But to be fair, believers do the same thing though too.

Or the "something similar happened over there, so this explanation applies universally to anything even remotely resembling it" tactic.

Or the "everybody is just mistaken" approach with no real reason to think they are mistaken other than the skeptic thinks the idea of ETs visiting earth is nonsense.

I think it's a worthwhile exercise to point out the flaws in skeptic arguments, while also being worthwhile for skeptics to question sightings and cases. Checks and balances. Keep both sides honest

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: flamengo

ANYONE seriously into filming ufo's should save up and get one of theses below that would probably end the arguments so maybe that's why they dont

You should know by now, if you research as you claim, that you are not in control here ok? Get over it. They are in control, now if that feels bad to you that is too bad. If you don't understand what I am saying that only means you did not read all the cases. You got to study more or leave it to it.

a reply to: flamengo

Yes the images from the Moon & Mars are real it's the claims people make that are FALSE.

As for being telepathic also just more claims with NOTHING that would be considered as real proof.

As for your claims that also means nothing it's what you claim that doesn't make it true.

a reply to: jordan77

Yes man, the main factor is lack of honesty, the second is fear, fear that their reality frame cannot accommodate the data is coming through.

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: flamengo

Yes the images from the Moon & Mars are real it's the claims people make that are FALSE.

As for being telepathic also just more claims with NOTHING that would be considered as real proof.

As for your claims that also means nothing it's what you claim that doesn't make it true.

You are not understanding, I am not trying to prove to you anything, you are the one who is demanding proof, I am ok with what I have.
But let me just ask you:
"As for being telepathic also just more claims with NOTHING that would be considered as real proof."
Then you need to consider that in thousands of cases this claim was made, you got to consider that all these people are mental, or perhaps you got a problem in speculating with a different sort of reality. Then that is your personal thing.

"As for your claims that also means nothing it's what you claim that doesn't make it true."
It would be naive of me, to ask you to believe on my experience, I am just telling you, I don;t have your problems, because it was shown to me, not to you. Do you get the difference? That is too bad for you, not for me.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

IF a sighting was of an experimental military aircraft then they would want to obfuscate. UFO .. yes .. alien origin, no.

a reply to: wmd_2008

Just one more tip to you, they work with something all the agencies work with as well, the concept of PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY. Think about that. That was a present to you, make yourself deserving.

a reply to: flamengo

They are in control again more claims with NO real proof I have been hearing the same BS since I can remember from some point in my early childhood almost 50 years ago.

Here's a little thought experiment...

I gather all the alleged UFO sighting cases into a giant pile. I now sort them into 3 boxes - the first box labelled explained, the second labelled unknown, and the third labelled alien. The explained box will contain the vast majority of sightings. The unexplained box will contain a few genuinely interesting head-scratchers. The alien box will be empty.

What does this tell you? To a rational person it suggests there is zero evidence of aliens visiting this planet. To the irrational "I-want-to-believe-no-matter-what-crowd" the second unexplained box proves aliens are visiting - i.e. they have a very poor understanding of what evidence is.

Lest us not forget that a UFO sighting is largely a matter of perspective - what appears strange and unearthly to one observer from one view point may well be boringly normal to another observer from a more favourable view point.



Also, many people on this forum started out believing that alien visitation was a real thing. However, over time, we realised that there is in fact nothing whatsoever to support that hypothesis.

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: flamengo

They are in control again more claims with NO real proof I have been hearing the same BS since I can remember from some point in my early childhood almost 50 years ago.

Sorry, that is just too bad, cannot do anything for you then. As I said to me is the problem with the nature of reality. Perhaps you should delve deeply into quantum and see the oddities they come about, and that is probably just the tip of the iceberg, so don't expect a higher civilisation start acting the way you would expect, because that is not what the data shows. And if you don't believe none of that, that is also too bad for you.

a reply to: MarsIsRed

That is a completely fake and grammar based experiment that has nothing to do with the real ufo data. There are many cases of close encounters with marks on the body of the people who did experiment the thing, there are dog fights and so on, some cases well before 1947. What is unproven is that the other intelligence comes from an other planet, that is not easy to prove, but that there is something else dealing with us is to me a matter of fact, so either you have not read the cases or I don't know, poor you.


"What does this tell you? To a rational person it suggests there is zero evidence of aliens visiting this planet. To the irrational "I-want-to-believe-no-matter-what-crowd" the second unexplained box proves aliens are visiting - i.e. they have a very poor understanding of what evidence is."

Well, to determine that something is ordinary it does not mean been rational, may just mean stupid if the the thing as in fact out of the ordinary, and if you do believe there is no possibility of understanding that this is a possibility it just renders you as unfit to investigate any paradigm breaking subject such as UFO, but perhaps makes you fit to be a school teacher of young teens.

I think youve just discovered your life's task... To write​ "The ultimate guide to debunking the debunkers!”
Now that ive quoted the title ill be happy to license the use of said title for a small percentage.👽👾👌

originally posted by: Brian4real
I think youve just discovered your life's task... To write​ "The ultimate guide to debunking the debunkers!”
Now that ive quoted the title ill be happy to license the use of said title for a small percentage.👽👾👌

lol, I pass that you, no thanks. But some people did give me good tips.
Note that one can only make a good case for the sake of the argument, based with the best data available, applying some sort of rational.

originally posted by: flamengoWhat is unproven is that the other intelligence comes from an other planet

That's actually exactly what he said. the fact that there is zero evidence of any of the unexplained incidents that offworld intelligence is involved is meaningful.