JP Aerospace - Three Stage To Orbit Air Lifter System: Current public status?

Hey guys, I know its been a nice long time since I last posted around these parts... Been a bit busy moving, getting situated, and working.

I ran across an old post that we had discussed in this forum regarding the excessively large (some said a mile wide) V shaped craft, also seen during the Phoenix Lights encounter and decided to look into the different possibilities and came to one ginormous conclusion that hit me directly square in the face. JP Aero has been doing active research and projects with the lifter system, blimps (of a sort) stationary sky transfer points (docking station) and found their PDF right on the JP aero main page that details what they've been actively working on, pictures of their crafts, layouts AND SIZES of their crafts as well as their docking stations and, well, if the shoe fits we shall wear it!

So I present to you, my good fellows(and women) of ATS Aircraft Projects forum, the PDF I've been looking through. Many of you have probably already seen it, some maybe havent.

www.jpaerospace.com...

Keep in mind everything you've heard about the super sized craft, that are completely silent, and the lighting placement reported in the encounters.

From the edge of space to orbit. This 6,000 foot long vehicle never touches the ground. This airship flies from the upper atmospheric station to orbit. It uses hybrid chemical/electric propulsion to slowly accelerate and reach orbit.

Transfer point at the edge of space. A two mile wide station parked at 140,000 feet is the new way station to space. The station acts not only as a port for the orbital airship but also as a research center, construction site and tourist destination

Most importantly, they've been around for "Over 30 years" and what you will see in the PDF is most certainly not as far as they've come. That part will most likely remain hidden until they work out all the kinks in the system.

It is happening now. This is not fanciful speculation. The project is now over three decades in development with over one hundred and sixty real hardware test flights and countless development tests. It is being built completely with existing technology

It’s being built now. JP Aerospace has build the highest flying airships in the world operating at the edge of space. Several Dark Sky Station platforms have been built and flown. Key components have undergone hundreds of laboratory tests. Our ongoing research programs are building, testing and chip away at the remaining challenges.

Hopefully this news will not come as much of a surprise to you. Maybe you've already seen the huge ships around in the dark, maybe you've heard the stories. Just remember there's always more we DON'T see than what we do.

Heads up always,
Drew

It’s being paid for now. This new way to space has not and will not require a massive pile of capital to accomplish. Each component has its own business application and funding source. It is a pay-as-you-go system. For example, funding the atmospheric airship was provided by the Department of Defense for use as a reconnaissance vehicle. The DSS has multiple customers in the telecommunications community. Research flight have been paid for through high altitude advertisement and adventure TV shows.

The website says:

JP Aerospace is a volunteer-based DIY Space Program.

I dunno. Their propulsion system description looks sketchy: rocket engines and some kind of mhd system. And the airship will be able to reach orbital velocity carrying all that stuff plus payload?

originally posted by: moebius
The website says:

JP Aerospace is a volunteer-based DIY Space Program.

I dunno. Their propulsion system description looks sketchy: rocket engines and some kind of mhd system. And the airship will be able to reach orbital velocity carrying all that stuff plus payload?

This question has been raised for a while with regard to the entire system and idea. It basically disregards everything we've learned regarding orbital velocity requirements to date. In theory, the idea has its quirks but its great IMO to see John Powell attempting (quite eagerly) to put his ideas to the test. Another thing I've been thinking about is how DOD has already used JPA for their own needs. So what did they hire them for? Was is for an ISR type system or just a small piece of equipment they happened to figure out how to make cheaper than anyone else?

a reply to: kingofyo1

Excellent thread. I like JPAerospace.

I believe their plan was to do the northrop thing and charge the leading edge and dump a modest ampubt of plasma over the upper surface of the fuselage. The purpose being to 1. Reduce drag on the front end. 2. To add lift by accentuating the upper surface relative to the bottom by using the plasma.

The mhd isnt too hokey at all. Lots of firms are very active looking into or developing mhd. Wouldnt be a bad idea to maybe borrow some of the plasma. And feed it to the mhd. Or maybe pull some of the electrons out of tge plasma and then dump it in the exhaust for added thrust.

I believe it takes 3cdays for the orviter to get up into the altitude range needed to do the exchanfe with the upper atmosphere craft at the dockibg station. So its not miraculous thecnology wise but it can lift heavy stuff into space reliably.

Ever heard an mhd engine do its thing. Its like a shrill shrieking sound. Rough and gravely. Lots of sparks n stuff shooting out the back.

Theres a member here who works for JPAerospace. Hes a pretty nice guy and hopefully comes along soon to this thread to help out a bit. He denies any SAP stuff. But hes pretty open about what they can talk abput JPAerospace doing. Id enjoy him joining this thread.

Also OP. I got your PMs. Ill get back to you i promise im not blowing you off. Been spending the last week trying to get everything in order for an australian visa im hoping to obtain. Ill get back to ya.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

haha youre good to go Bass. Thanks for jumping in! and good luck on that visa

Sounds like a lot of hot air to me.

(Thank you I'll get my coat).

originally posted by: Forensick
Sounds like a lot of hot air to me.

(Thank you I'll get my coat).

Doesnt it always?*zing*

a reply to: kingofyo1

It was intended as a long-duration ISR platform.

We originally developed the idea based on an old NASA design for an inflatable "hang-glider" space capsule re-entry system that would allow astronauts to "fly" their ship to a recovery point on land.

We just tweaked the design and reversed the direction of the "flight".

a reply to: BASSPLYR

In regards the MHD system, you left out the additional fact that the LAV would use hydrogen as its primary lifting gas and would be required to vent this gas as it gained altitude (to maintain proper lift-cell pressure/density).

Loss of gas would, of course reduce available lift, so we run the "excess" gas through the MHD's and gain a bit of thrust to counter the loss of lift.

And the MHD's contribute to electrical power production to boot.

a reply to: Bhadhidar

I bet youre right that the mhd might also produce electrical power. Might i sugest taking some of that power and sending it to the exhaust. Blast it with light in quick pulses. Energize those electrons when they absorb the photon. Get em to bunch up in packets and ride the wake. Might add to thrust.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Bhadhidar

I bet youre right that the mhd might also produce electrical power. Might i sugest taking some of that power and sending it to the exhaust. Blast it with light in quick pulses. Energize those electrons when they absorb the photon. Get em to bunch up in packets and ride the wake. Might add to thrust.

You should make that suggestion on their blog.

They're always looking for inventive minds.

They're currently working on a two man mini-sub using a voice-activated control system.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: kingofyo1

Excellent thread. I like JPAerospace.

I believe their plan was to do the northrop thing and charge the leading edge and dump a modest ampubt of plasma over the upper surface of the fuselage. The purpose being to 1. Reduce drag on the front end. 2. To add lift by accentuating the upper surface relative to the bottom by using the plasma.

The mhd isnt too hokey at all. Lots of firms are very active looking into or developing mhd. Wouldnt be a bad idea to maybe borrow some of the plasma. And feed it to the mhd. Or maybe pull some of the electrons out of tge plasma and then dump it in the exhaust for added thrust.
...

So what exactly is your experience with mhd propulsion or lift increase, drag reduction?

What would be the power requirements? Where would the electric power come from? How much thrust/lift would the system generate?

In the end we are talking about orbital speeds: 17000mph. How much good would charging the leading edge do here?

a reply to: moebius

Reducing ever increasing drag by increasing the plasma flow seems the reason and mechanism im guessing. IF JP had the access to the Lighter than air tech they could build even bigger lifters. But the RK's and Black listers are not forthcoming with that info or tech.

a reply to: moebius

17,000mph is the velocity needed to maintain an orbit, it is NOT the velocity needed to achieve an altitude from which orbit may be established.

Most people just don't understand the difference between those two goals.


It does not matter how long it takes for you to get to, 200 miles up, so long as once you are, finally 200 miles high, you can accelerate to 17,000MPH to maintain your orbit.

The advantage here is that you are able to reserve your fuel, whatever it may be, until you actually need it, to push your vehicle to orbital velocity once it is at orbital altitude; instead of burning the vast bulk of your fuel just to get to orbital altitude.

And, because it is easier to accelerate in a vacuum, while in free fall, you will need Less fuel to achieve your desired velocity.

It still surprises us that no one ever thinks of these things.

It is what makes the whole idea of "Floating To Space" so appealing; let the Earth's own atmosphere do most of the work to lift you to an orbital altitude, and expend your fuel only to accelerate to, then maintain orbit. You can then carry more than enough fuel to decelerate while in orbit enough to avoid having to deal with extreme frictional heating due to to high speed re-entry.

Another take using similar ideas:www.newscientist.com...

Check the pdf for a new use to the dense plasma focus.

Not a jet engine by any means..

Although some working prototypes exist, MHD drives remain impractical due to the slow speeds at which they generally propel a vessel and the large amount of energy needed to operate them.