Would You Trust a Public Defender

a reply to: TobyFlenderson

I get your reasoning but that may prove problematic. We are from the west side of the state and he has been transferred to the east side, about a 3 hour drive on a good day. I've been attorney shopping there as that seems to me the logical approach.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: muzzleflash

Takes a while and you need legit reasons. It's a for real strategy though.

With as screwed up as this system is, and how easy it is for them to really muck things up - you can find legit reasons quickly. You gotta know the law and what your rights are though, which most people don't know hardly at all. It takes years of reading and familiarizing yourself and also experience in actual court is a big deal as well, just to get a decent idea of how it works and what's actually going on.

Most lawyers and judges don't even 'know the law' in any complete sense. In fact none do. They just know how to look it up and read it and they remember a few things here and there but it's a very difficult and slow process to work through overall and things rarely ever turn out the way you'd expect.

There are so many nuances and random things that play into how it all turns out.

Prayer is actually a viable option and shouldn't be overlooked.

a reply to: muzzleflash

There is a mandatory sentence within the statute.......

Perhaps time served but I'm doubtful. The rest of your post makes logical sense and is imperative if you wish to keep out of their system.

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: toysforadults

There are risks to that strategy. If you piss off the judge enough he could end up forcing you to defend yourself or appoint you the worst lawyer he can think of. I think it should only be done in an emergency.

Well you don't have to defend yourself, the SCOTUS ruled that we have a right to attorneys in criminal cases.

If you upset the judge no attorney can save you, lol.
You might as well get ready for post-conviction strategy and appeals processes.

a reply to: muzzleflash

They can make you defend yourself, I've seen it happen in extreme cases. You can always hire your own, but when you're dealing with publicly supplied attorneys and a judge decides you are just firing lawyers to delay the case they can tell you to go it alone.

a reply to: TobyFlenderson

Well that's not totally true.

You can refuse to participate in court functions and stop agreeing to their terms (which will put in contempt more than likely) under the pretense that you are incapable of intelligently defending yourself.

Especially if you can prove you lack competency aka are dumb as a rock and can prove it.

But this will piss them off big time and they will invest in your case whereas if you keep pushing it as close to trial as possible you will get better and better deals and mandatory minimums only matter if the charges stick.

It's not always about proving innocence it's can be about proving that they got you with the wrong charges. In a drug case however unlikely.

a reply to: JinMI

Not in my county i don't. last public "defender" I had tried to push me to plead guilty to a crime I didn't commit.

a reply to: JinMI
I know a couple of pubic defenders who are excellent and will fight long and hard for their clients. But as many have pointed out, it's a mixed bag. I would have him interview a few public defenders to see if he can work with one of them. The state will be wanting a plea bargain and if he is guilty, he may as well plead it out. His discussions with the public defenders should cover the over-charges.

Unless he is willing to spend the next two years studying law---don't even think about letting him defend himself.

A private attorney will most likely want to take it trial---big bucks there so that will be their likely recommendation. A public defender will be more likely to work a plea deal because the good ones have more cases than they can handle.

I have hired attorneys for relatives who were facing charges. The one thing I would urge you is if you do decide to spend the money you make very clear to this person that this is a one time deal. Have a family gathering of everyone who is involved so that everyone understands that there won't be any second chances. If this person is an adult, he needs to understand that he needs to be responsible for his actions. Hopefully, this will be an extreme learning experience for him---to the point of him changing the direction of his life.

Good luck with it and I feel for you and your family.

a reply to: diggindirt

Excellent post and advise. Thanks much.

with my experience with public pretenders is get a lawyer, but shop around for them, and get references for sure. public defenders are looking for the best out in a case knowing full well they can't win most, and usually want to appease the state so someday they can become prosecutor themselves. don't trust them, period.....

a reply to: JinMI

A public defender may be an exception yo the rule of "You get what you pay for." Yes, they are underpaid and overworked, but criminal law is all they do. They know the system intimately. They know the judges and prosecutors, and perhaps most importantly, the clerks and secretaries who really run the system. In my experience, the PDs really care.Because they work long hours for low pay, they don't identify strongly with the legal system and have more empathy for their clients than the high paid criminal law bar.

originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: bknapple32
a reply to: JinMI

Does he deserve the time?

My opinion is that he does not deserve the maximum allotted sentence which I'm well away most likely won't be the case. However they are stacking some charges and I realize they could be served consecutively.

He deserves to be punished for the crimes he has committed which would include some time IMO, yes.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I was arrested and charged with 2nd degree assault on Sept 16th, 2016. I went to arraignment that following Monday plead not guilty. Charges were dropped to 4th degree. Bail was reduced from$ 50,000.00 to $ 2,500.00. I made bail. The Attorney the Court assigned to me did not care if I was guilty or not. (I did not commit this crime..I actually was the one assaulted). Their has been tampering of my evidence, no witnesses, reluctance in hiring a ASL interpreter, lack of communication by my attorney and much more. I've requested a replacement attorney twice and was denied that right. It's been over 9 months now. I finally have another attorney. I have absolutely no faith in our Judicial system here in Kitsap County. I have proof that I am not guilty and that the attorney I had did not represent/defend me to the best of his ability. How do we trust in our system when it works against us? As well, when a police officer lies on a report that is submitted to the courts as evidence, hoping that the defendant will sign a plea bargain for the prosecutor? And or plea guilty!

a reply to: JinMI

You can ask tye court to appoint an attorney, on a pay as you go type of payment plan.
Theyll appoint you a private attorney for an affordable rate.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: JinMI

You actually have to pay for a public defender.
So you might as well choose a good lawyer.

"If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you".

Lawyers who work for the Public Defenders office want to earn a good reputation, and advance in their jobs. They are state employees just like those lawyers on the D.A's office. They are salaried. I personally would trust them to do their best. If your friend is guilty, they will do their best to make a good deal for them.

a reply to: JinMI

Public defenders result in higher prison sentences, and they have a very low success rate. The system essentially works by having PD's set you up on a plea deal.

Money aside, I think it's a bastardization of the process. PD's should be a good thing, but right now they aren't.

I will say first I haven't read everyone's posts so far, but this is a subject I have very recently dealt with personally.

First - the prison system in the US is simply a way to fleece money from people and leave them indebted to the system. Court fees, fees for being incarcerated, fees for phone calls, fees for everything. Fees fees fees. It targets those of us who are not so well to do and makes you a debt slave. Get probation? Well unless you can pay the thousands of dollars that it will eventually cost you, you're right back where you started; incarcerated and accruing more debt.

That said, a public defender deals with so many cases they cannot possibly be expected to care about yours over anyone else's. Are they objectively just bad people? Of course not, but their caseload makes them apathetic and the day to day dealing with case after case where they have no vested interest in a 'victory' leads to apathy. That's just what happens to people.

At the risk of being labelled a 'bad element,' I recently had to deal with all of this; the incarceration, complete cutoff from information so that I could actually make an informed decision (another devious contrivance to keep you in the system and accruing debt), being treated like a degenerate zoo animal by the guards, being screamed at by inmates (who admittedly all have their own personal issues they are having to deal with regarding the system), and just general apathy on the part of the system. They are not interested in rehabilitation, nor are they interested in your well-being - unless they face a lawsuit due to negligence.

Day one I had no clue what was going to happen, nor if we could even afford a lawyer - I was cutoff from the outside until someone could pay 15 dollars so I could use the phone for a few minutes. At first, when I declared I needed a public defender as I was unsure if I could afford an attorney, it was in so many words "Ok, mister, well you're going back to the pod until we can schedule another hearing. In the future." No timetable, no information I could actually work with, just 'You're here now, get used to it."

Once I was finally able to speak to my family and we made arrangements to have a lawyer, the entire attitude of the judge presiding over my case changed. They couldn't get me out fast enough. Granted, I had no felonies or anything egregious on my record, but it was like night and day the way I was spoken to, treated by, and even looked at by the judge. I wasn't just another no-good low-life who made a mistake and deserved to rot for it. Suddenly I was a guy who had someone with a vested interest (monetary compensation) in seeing me free and with the least prohibitive restrictions on said freedom as possible.

My final advice is this: Lawyer up. Pronto. The system wants the poor to run the treadmill of debt, they want them to be so degraded and enraged at their treatment that they re-offend (or, as I witnessed firsthand, guards will provoke you just to get you to offend while incarcerated.) Once the judge sees you have a lawyer who actually cares about winning your case, it is no longer worth their time to keep piling on the punishment. You aren't their prime demographic any longer.

This is entirely anecdotal, and the OPs situation could vary in so many ways, but I felt compelled to respond.