contridictions on if anybody has seen God...

I was thinking about the fact of wether or not anybody has seen God. The Bible contradicts this a number of times. I found a site stateing the contridictions, and then he tries to explain them by saying "God Almighty" and "The Father" or two different beings within the Holy Trinity. Eventhough the Bible doesn't mention the trinity. Anyway, here's the different contridictions.

Has anyone seen God or not?
Exodus 24:9-11, Exodus 33:11; Exodus 6:2-3, John 1:18


Has seen

(Gen. 17:1) – “Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty ; Walk before Me, and be blameless;

(Gen. 18:1) Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.”

(Exodus 6:2-3) – “God spoke further to Moses and said to him, "I am the LORD; 3and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty , but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.”

(Exodus 24:9-11) – “Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank.”

(Num. 12:6-8) – “He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a vision . I shall speak with him in a dream. 7"Not so, with My servant Moses, He is faithful in all My household; 8With him I speak mouth to mouth, Even openly, and not in dark sayings, And he beholds the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant, against Moses ?"

(Acts 7:2), "And he [Stephen] said, "Hear me, brethren and fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran. . . "

Has not seen

(Exodus 33:20) – “But He [God] said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live !"

(John 1:18) – “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”

(John 5:37) – “"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”

(John 6:46) - "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”

(1 Tim. 6:15-16) – “He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion ! Amen.”

There is a conflict with the Old and New Tetaments. The Old says God has appeared before men, and the Nt is promoting the triune theme. Espeacially when Jesus says God is in the bosom of the father. One point he makes that makes since if you believe in the trinity, is that God almighty was Jesus before his incarnation.

well my religion teacher (high school religion) said that if any man saw God he would blow up because our minds cannot process the full glory of God...

i think he is right...

how can a human see God in all His glory???

his mind could not take it...

Originally posted by they see ALL
well my religion teacher (high school religion) said that if any man saw God he would blow up because our minds cannot process the full glory of God...

That is actually a very old statement. I don't recall the source, but it went something like: Those whom view upon the mind of god are irrevocably transformed and become insane. Wish I could remember where that was from.

I am glad someone else has seen the light. Can you see God? Jacob, Moses, Job all did according to the bible. In the cases of Moses and Jacob....face to face as a friend would see a friend. I have posted on this very topic about 5 times already in one way or another. It is a contradiction, even though christians pretend its not and make up excuses as to why. It is one of thousands....some with far more serious consequences. Go look at some of my previous threads over the last year. Most get into that!

Heres what seeing God means.



1. How can Moses contradict himself?


Exodus33:11


"" And the Lord spoke to Moses (face to face), as a man is wont to speak to his friend ""



In the very same chapter, note that this is not NT versus OT, but the same chapter.



Exodus 33:20


"" And again he said: Thou (canst not see my face: for man shall not see and live ""



Exodus 33:23


"" And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face thou canst see ""




he was talking to moses here. He appered to the prophets in a familiar for or different manner, but noone ever has seen his face except Jesus.




peace.

[edit on 3-2-2005 by Truth]

Originally posted by Truth
This is ridiculous. Wha you guys are doing uness the lead poster in here was sincere which I think he was, was taking
sentences here and there and stamping your judgement on them with having knowledge of what tey mean.

Excuse me, but would you mind translating for the English speaking people here? What personal judgement did I overlay on anything that I said?

On the mountain, moses saw a burning bush
in Gen 15:1 we see God appearing to abram in a vision
In 17:1 it does not tell us what manner of appearance it is, but some people want to choose 'personal'.

If thats what works for you.

Gen 18:1 should not even be in the list. This one is a perfect example that the problem is with the presenter of it, and not with the subject matter. Read the next few verses

Exo 6:2-3 see above

Exo 24:9-11 You will note that they saw something akin to what 'Predator' looked like in the arnold swartzinager movie.

, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

So how can I confrim this?

Deu 4:15 Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spoke unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire:
Deu 4:16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,

God didnt show himself because he didnt want them making idols out of him

Num 12 God spoke to moses mouth to mouth, not in a vision. Gods presence is known by his light
Here is when God talked to moses

Exo 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Acts 7:2 was covered when we covered abraham.
Why is it that people think this HAS to mean that they saw the actual form/face of God? I think its because you WANT to see contradictions, and some will continue to do so, even after they are shown otherwise

(John 1:18) – There is a problem with your translation here.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. "

Espeacially when Jesus says God is in the bosom of the father.

You are most certainly a bit confused here. God is in the bosom of God??

You should also checkout the book of Daniel where they had the bonfire to roast he jews. Who was walking in the fire with them?

Dan 3:24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spoke, and said unto his counselors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
Dan 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God

Pretty cool ehh. The OT was presenting the Triune theme too.

For a couple more quick ot Triune themes checkout
Gen 1:26
Gen 11:7
Psa 51:11, 63:10-11

Im sorry, thats why I edited it, only one person seemd insincere. The original poster
seemed sincere. Its just that alot of people truly are not sincere anymore.



peace.

Thanks everybody that posted, your views were very helpful! I want everybody to know that I'm in a very transitional stage in my life. My father is a minister, and I grew up in the penicostal church. As I grow older (29) I find that I believe less and less in the bible. I believe that there's a higher power, but I'm looking for a lot of answers right now.

Jake thanx for this find: and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God
It let's me know that the triune theme was consistant in the OT, and the NT.

But, now I'm stuck with the question as to what were the "Sons of God"? I know the passage says the son, and not son's of God, but, I was wondering if he had more than one son?

God told Moses to come up to the mountain, hid him in the cleft of the rock, and passed before him, placed His Hand over Moses, so that he would only see His 'backside'. To me, this implies that he had physical form.....now, did he not want Moses to see his face because he couldn't handle it, because he would then realize he looks just like everyone else...or because he would look a lot like we picture aliens of today and it would of shocked the you know what out of him in being so different? Hmmmmmmm

God told Moses to come up to the mountain, hid him in the cleft of the rock, and passed before him, placed His Hand over Moses, so that he would only see His 'backside'. To me, this implies that he had physical form.....now, did he not want Moses to see his face because he couldn't handle it, because he would then realize he looks just like everyone else...or because he would look a lot like we picture aliens of today and it would of shocked the you know what out of him in being so different? Hmmmmmmm

I too question the form of God. But, my thing is that if God is an alien, how big are aliens? Especially if he could cover a human with his hand!! He is described to have human characteristics though.