EYE-OPENER..Universal HealthCare In America Would Be Surprisingly Inexpensive.!

One good thing about Universal Health Care, and to a lesser extent, the American Health Care Act passed by the House of Representatives yesterday, is that the GOVERNMENT will bear the cost of those with existing chronic medical conditions.

Treatment of these medical conditions is so insanely expensive, and so few "healthy" people are enrolling in ObamaCare, that premiums are skyrocketing.

One of the first states to publish 2018 premiums is Maryland. Blue Cross Blue Shield is requesting a 50% (HMO) and 58% (PPO) premium increase for 2018. This is the "death-spiral" in process, due to healthier people leaving Blue Cross. Those remaining, need lots of medical care, which causes premiums to skyrocket.

We're seeing the same thing here in Illinois. Healthier people going with no insurance, or getting Short Term Medical plans. (STM plans don't adhere to the rules of ObamaCare. They are 50% to 70% cheaper.) Our Blue Cross went up 52% for 2017, after the company lost $256 million dollars in 2016, due to so many medical expenses being paid.

a reply to: Wildmanimal

You'r worrying too much.

I got this.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: charlyv

As you see in the first article I linked to in the O.P., Canadian doctors make 25% less money than US doctors. Doctors in the United Kingdom make 50% less. Maybe the good pay is why America has the best physicians in the world?

As ATS members have pointed out in other threads, the COST of medical care here is indeed insanely expensive. But, I don't know if the best doctors would be willing to take a 25%-50% pay-cut. They might just resort to seeing cash-only patients. We have an entire medical center on the "Gold Coast" in Chicago where the doctors only see patients that pay cash. They're so good that they don't have to accept "negotiated rates" that insurance demands.

I really get it, but these doctors that make so much money will justify it with the other tremendous cost of malpractice insurance, which is also way out of control in the system. Like I had said, it needs a reset. Perhaps limits on what people could sue for would help, and without those enormouse premiums, they would accept less because it comes right out of their bottom line income.

a reply to: FuggleHop

I hope so.
Second line.

originally posted by: the owlbear

originally posted by: rickymouse
I'm all for this, where could we get decent health insurance for four grand a year. It doesn't need dental, it could be like medicare is, I actually pay about a hundred bucks a month extra for part b and the Part D is covered by the wifes old employer and we pay about seventy bucks each for that..

Remember, if we had universal health care, we would not need health coverage on our auto insurance policies, our workers comp would not be so high, our employers could give us a raise if they paid for health insurance, and our homeowners insurance would be a little cheaper. On top of that, if it went total socialist, the doctors would not need to pay high premiums on their insurance, the government could do what other countries do, have a committee to look at things and limit liability.

We have a really screwed up health system, based on the staffof Hermes not the staff of medicine. I think that we should change this. I am sure a lot of doctors would agree, some are getting stressed out because of all the fibs they have to do to support medical trade jobs

It should include dental. Not fully, but screenings and pulling of teeth that are bad. Some tooth infections cause heart disease, attack, and worse. Knew a girl that had bad teeth, lost both legs under the knee while having a heart attack and almost died at thirty.

Dental..yes indeed. ObamaCare requires that children under age 19 have top-quality dental. Adults can't get the same coverage, because the law doesn't mandate it. We can nip a whole lot of problems in the bud, if a comprehensive Universal Health Care system is implemented.

originally posted by: charlyv

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: charlyv

As you see in the first article I linked to in the O.P., Canadian doctors make 25% less money than US doctors. Doctors in the United Kingdom make 50% less. Maybe the good pay is why America has the best physicians in the world?

As ATS members have pointed out in other threads, the COST of medical care here is indeed insanely expensive. But, I don't know if the best doctors would be willing to take a 25%-50% pay-cut. They might just resort to seeing cash-only patients. We have an entire medical center on the "Gold Coast" in Chicago where the doctors only see patients that pay cash. They're so good that they don't have to accept "negotiated rates" that insurance demands.

I really get it, but these doctors that make so much money will justify it with the other tremendous cost of malpractice insurance, which is also way out of control in the system. Like I had said, it needs a reset. Perhaps limits on what people could sue for would help, and without those enormouse premiums, they would accept less because it comes right out of their bottom line income.

Great point about how expensive malpractice insurance premiums are. I had a client (physician) who paid $75,000 a year in malpractice insurance premiums.. and this was way back in the early 1990's!

a reply to: carewemust

Respectfully,
I paid for all of the services
of the dearly departed as well.
We have only one shot at that in life.

Honor thy Father and Mother.
It is done.
Best to You

people>government>companies is how it should be.
you pay taxes, government provides hospitals and services and companies provide equipment, medicine and etc for profit from that tax money. a bit like Canada

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: the owlbear

originally posted by: rickymouse
I'm all for this, where could we get decent health insurance for four grand a year. It doesn't need dental, it could be like medicare is, I actually pay about a hundred bucks a month extra for part b and the Part D is covered by the wifes old employer and we pay about seventy bucks each for that..

Remember, if we had universal health care, we would not need health coverage on our auto insurance policies, our workers comp would not be so high, our employers could give us a raise if they paid for health insurance, and our homeowners insurance would be a little cheaper. On top of that, if it went total socialist, the doctors would not need to pay high premiums on their insurance, the government could do what other countries do, have a committee to look at things and limit liability.

We have a really screwed up health system, based on the staffof Hermes not the staff of medicine. I think that we should change this. I am sure a lot of doctors would agree, some are getting stressed out because of all the fibs they have to do to support medical trade jobs

It should include dental. Not fully, but screenings and pulling of teeth that are bad. Some tooth infections cause heart disease, attack, and worse. Knew a girl that had bad teeth, lost both legs under the knee while having a heart attack and almost died at thirty.

Dental..yes indeed. ObamaCare requires that children under age 19 have top-quality dental. Adults can't get the same coverage, because the law doesn't mandate it. We can nip a whole lot of problems in the bud, if a comprehensive Universal Health Care system is implemented.

Hey, I'm all for it.
Cut out the middleman. Insurance is simply a legal racquet. Especially health insurance. Except not only do you have to place your bet, costing hundreds of dollars per month for NO HEALTH SERVICES OR ANYTHING, but you are given nothing unless you lose $5K ON TOP OF THE BET!!! And now the new Republican plan says if you haven't had health insurance, you will need to pay a penalty to those same raqueteers in order to pay the premiums that you have never been able to afford in the first place before you can get on their rolls for a $5000 deductible...and one rep even had the balls to come shuffling in on his scooter (which probably costs as much as a mortgage payment for a lot of folks) for a pre-existing condition to vote for this bill that the GAO never had the chance to run the numbers for...all glee and smiles while someone's grandma is eating cat food in order to pay for prescriptions...

a reply to: carewemust

In Australia, the country that President Trump referred to as having "excellent healthcare" yesterday, the patient pays $39 per prescription until he/she reaches the "safety-net". Then the per-prescription cost reduces to $6.30 per prescription, if I'm reading this right: en.wikipedia.org...

It is not quite as simple as that . Pensioners the unemployed , low income earners pay the $6.30 . Drugs that are priced way out of reach of most people are priced at $39/6.30 . For instance below .

Cost to government (A$) DDD/1000 pop/day * Prescriptions
1. Adalimumab (autoimmune disease) $311,616,305 0.57 176,062

This works out at $1769.92 per prescription and thats not the most expensive .


Medication Treats Cost to government Prescriptions
1 Ledipasvir and
sofosbuvir Hepatitis C $570,730,056 25,205

That works out at $22,643 per prescription . Not bad for $6.30 eh .
Not sure why things arent lining up above , you will have to take my word on the costs

Health care in Sweden is largely tax-funded, a system that ensures everyone equal access to health care services. Challenges include funding, quality and efficiency of its health care services.

Patient fees.
The fee for a hospital stay is maximum SEK 100 per day. Patient fees for primary care vary between SEK 100 and 300 depending on the county council. For specialist visits, there is a maximum fee of SEK 400.
NOTE: 100 SEK (Swedish Kronor) equals roughly $11.50 (at Today's exchange rate)

High-cost ceiling.
A patient never has to pay more than a total of SEK 1,100 in the course of a year for medical consultations; within 12 months any consultations exceeding the SEK 1,100 are free of charge. There is a similar ceiling for prescription medication, so nobody pays more than SEK 2,200 in a given 12-month period.

You can read more Here.

originally posted by: FuggleHop
a reply to: carewemust

Yes it would be a huge shift.

A huge shift toward communism.

And I dont see why my tax dollars should be wasted on others peoples health.

So to answer your questions: 1 No and 2 At least 30$.

No one would be a Communist if every red blooded flag waving American put their gun to their head and blew themselves patriotically away.

It would solve the health insurance issue, too.

The problem with many/most people is their unwillingness to share a little bit of what they have by contributing to a fund that will benefit everyone in their society without discrimination. None of us can survive on our own, we all survive by contributing to a society that doesn't only make everyone's life better, but our own lives too.

Your taxes buys and maintains infrastructure that benefits all of society not just yourself. You didn't hear anyone telling you to acquire and maintain your own personal sewer system because they don't see why their water bill should be used to maintain the whole of society's sewers.

Just consider healthcare as a necessary societal infrastructure that is a benefit for all. Healthy people are able to work and that means more will contribute.

It is only right that big business/corporations/employers contribute to the fund too, they need a healthy workforce and they need a healthy society to fleece and profit from.

Everyone benefits from universal healthcare. It puts health before profits because there is no-one there to profit. The universal healthcare system belongs to the taxpayers. Every dollar you contribute is spent on providing care and equipment, instead of some insurance company giving half of everything you pay to its CEO, very bad value for your money.

And with universal healthcare all medical conditions are covered at first point of contact without question, at any time of night or day, instead of imminent bankruptcy when your insurance provider starts wriggling out of its obligations once it's got your money.

Universal healthcare doesn't mean individuals lose out, no-one loses out, everyone benefits. How is that a bad thing?

a reply to: FuggleHop

Communism?? You mean like communist Britain, Australia, France etc?? With attitudes like yours I can see why Americans are so loved by their fellow man.

The cannibal capitalists will never let this happen. It makes total sense and is working elsewhere but there is too much money to leech to allow it here. The US can't reconcile what is common sense investment in the future versus pure profit taking, our companies have been having this problem for decades. Short term money making is all anyone cares about and Universal Healthcare is a long term investment.

I'm so happy to see you folks supportive of this idea FINALLY.

Finally! Took a while, but delighted that you've come around to realizing how much better it would be.

@FuggleHop: no, you don't "got this."

originally posted by: kosmicjack
The cannibal capitalists will never let this happen. It makes total sense and is working elsewhere but there is too much money to leech to allow it here. The US can't reconcile what is common sense investment in the future versus pure profit taking, our companies have been having this problem for decades. Short term money making is all anyone cares about and Universal Healthcare is a long term investment.

Yes, Corporate America will be the stumbling block.

There is another thread on here about how Medicare works in Australia. Other countries use very similar systems too. It's neither socialist nor communist to have free public healthcare. It's simply altruistic.

The USA spends 3.3% GDP on defense, when the world average is 2.3%

data.worldbank.org...

BUT GET THIS;

The way you Americans pay for healthcare now costs a whopping 17.1% of GDP compared to Australia's State funded system that costs 9.1%

data.worldbank.org...

Quite simply, corporations are robbing you guys blind.

a reply to: rickymouse

are you kidding? your auto insurance/home insurance would skyrocket. the greedy insurance companys would have to make up the loss somewhere. i would imagine it would be near the same as health insurance is now.

a reply to: carewemust

My one major concern is that nagging scar on my ass from the last time I was assured that this new plan would cost me less and be better. It didn't, and it wasn't. Now this new plan also sucks.

But, if we did have a government run Universal Healthcare system, would the doctors want to participate? Would GOOD doctors want to be part of this?

I'm not saying I'm against it, but we would need much, much more in-depth understanding of what this would mean and more importantly, cost per individual.

a reply to: FuggleHop

Yet your tax dollars go to subsidize giant corporations in the form of tax breaks and subsidies.

No outrage there?

I'd rather my money go to people that need help. Not rich guys getting another lambo.