What keeps a man in the box?

If you knew me like I know me, but were still you, you would criticise me, berate me, leave me and I'd deserve it. But consider this predicament, place yourself in this box, for a time, to see as i do and perhaps help another out of a nasty trap.

You're in a box, that's on fire. Inside this box you are miserable and have only useless comforts like food etc. Outside of this box, is everything you live and desire that is both pure and true. Family, purpose, clarity, love.

You know exactly how to escape this box, you wrote the answer in the walls, you read it every day, sometimes many times. Everything inside the box is bad for you and everything outside of it is good. What would keep a man inside the box?

You'd think, that being the hypothetical man in this scenario I'd be able to tell you the answer. But it really is a paradox, at least as far as I can see, a catch 22.

On the one hand, if he wants to leave, but doesn't, what keeps him there, what keeps him from overcoming himself? But if he doesn't want to leave, why could this be, he has absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain.

The only thing I can think of is that ones tolerance to corruption is equal to that of his motivation to change... One must overcome himself, to overcome himself, to be himself. How is this achieved?

It is a simple matter to think of leaving the box. He wants to leave the box, but not more than he wants to stay in the box. Confronted with conflicting desires he must identify with one or the other... Let's say he identifies with wanting to leave the box.

To actually leave, he must figure out how to lower his tolerance for corruption, increase his desire for purity, in order to actually overcome his resistance, and step outside the box into heaven, so to speak. It is a simple matter to just say to this man "just leave the box!" But is another matter entirely if you are this man.

ATS, I am this man. I could die from the difference between my ideals and actualities, and I do every single day I don't manage to avoid thinking about it. I literally find myself doing things to avoid opening up my box, intentionally remain inside even though I still identify with the desire to be free.

Would you condemn this man? If any man can be said to have blame, it is he. Or would you pity him? I find myself torn between the two, but both are worse than useless. What if YOU were this man? What would you think about yourself? And how would you resolve the situation?

I hope that this message will bring you closer to understanding the pain of those who labour in iniquity alongside you, that we might be of a more forgiving and tenacious mindset with others and ourselves.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

In reading your OP it brought to mind my struggle with addiction and subsequently dealing with others who struggle with theirs. What got me out of my box was first the knowledge of what was preventing me from leaving. It seems you've already passed this phase, you're self-aware of the issue.

The second phase was accepting it. This is what is preventing me from leaving the box, this thing that prevents me from truly becoming what I can be is certainly a weakness, but it does not mean that I am weak. It does not mean that I am corrupt. It simply means that this thing, this one thing must be overcome.

The third phase, for me, was the recognition that I could not overcome the weakness by myself. I needed to ask for help. I needed to stop worrying about what others may think. I needed a power source beyond my own weakened initiative. That reaching out, however tentative, however lacking in faith that it may've been, was all that I needed to be put on the road to recovery.

I'm not sure if any of this applies to you. I'm hopeful that it has been of some assistance and wish you the best of luck.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

Condemn? No. Pity? No.

Fulfilling your potential, to achieve a more stable, persistent, genuine happiness. One of contentment and tranquility. Serenity. That is the path to walk. Knowing is half the battle.

I speak for myself. I presume this applies to you as well.

Is this a mental/emotional box alone... or does it also involve a physical box?

Some people go to prison.

Some people carry around their own.

The Mind Industrial Complex.

Just say no.

I used to work at a call center. awful job. many of my coworkers would sit around and talk about other jobs and resumes and applications but very few actually left. fear of change.
I got an offer and gave notice and during my last week there I felt the biggest urge to ask to stay and turn down the other job, even though I really wanted to leave.
Humans live on what they see and hear, and it's hard to leap into the unknown, no matter the promises. Takes a burning house to get some people to jump.
Don't feel bad, it's human nature. Sure, some people desire constant change; they're the ones the come and go. But I think most of us are reluctant to change, especially as we age.

imho

Change is scary.
That you know is safe, however horrible.

Most of us suffer a sort of Stockholm syndrome where we are frightened of the true nature of freedom.

Once the scales fall from our eyes, the box evaporates and we walk out.

Just my advice from my own experience.
There is no box and there is no outside the box. Is just your own mental construction. The moment you set up some ideals that can or cannot be reached you closed yourself in that box. The more you dream about your ideals and reject reality the smaller and darker the box becomes.

What about accepting yourself just as you are? Ideals are all fine and dandy but they are not real. They are only in your mind. Leave them there and go on with your life. Don't judge yourself so much by some imaginary standards. Nobody is what you imagine they are.
"Everything inside the box is bad for you and everything outside of it is good." Is it everything you are and have so bad? I'm sure not.

Beside that it may surprise you but everything from the outside became "inside" the moment you have it and therefore automatically bad. It seems to me just a habit of super idealizing what you don't have and despising what you do have. We learn from very young to want more, always more and never be satisfied with what we have. We learn very early to compare ourselves with others and to find ourselves unworthy. No wonder we hate ourselves so much.

Accept yourself more; be grateful, even for things you don't consider them pure and clear. Your life is the reality of every day not the ideals in your mind; learn to appreciate it and enjoy it and the box will dissolve by itself.
Just try it for a moment. Accept yourself as you are and be grateful for what you are. Where is the box now? Oh, yes, is coming back right when you start thinking "yes, but..."

Be what you are and forgive yourself for all the things you are not. And soon enough your box will be gone.

I would embrace that man for i to am that man.

Such is my name. Perpetually trapped into wanting brains but never wanting it. Having to need it because it is. That's the way it is. One giant paradox.

This box is all I know. It's my space that has been there where no others were. A space to be my true self without ridicule or pain. So much pain, you open your box to few and even less remain.

You spoke so true from the heart. You let us peer in. Most will turn. Others, mean for they can. Your words may have well increased my life expectancy. To know ones not alone makes all the difference in the world.

Thank you LucidWarrior. Live long and prosper.

What you described seems to me to be a description of someone who just doesn't want to leave their comfort zone. Probably about a quarter of the world's populace is that way in regards to many things. You're certainly not the only one.

By the book psychological labels have no place in society. You say you know the human psyche. Isn't ignorance just bliss. Breath it in. Take a wiff. Almost a fruity flavor I would say.

Having to be different in order to fit in, is an alone then one could ever be. Being who you are and being alone even more. There are very few words one can use to describe such a feeling. If you do not know. Then you do not know.

I have a belief. People do not change. No matter how hard you try. Who you become when your between the ages on 9-11 is who you are and who you'll ever be. Its foundation to the rest of your life. Those who claim to have a changed only had the illusion of a problem to begin with. Weather self manifested or purely attention seeking.

I can go on. But for those who know. Don't mind the ones that dont. It's part of fitting in.

When you have spent so much of your time/life memorizing statics and 'facts' belonging to a certain ideology, it is almost impossible to root up your core foundation and rebuild. All of that time lost. All of those 'facts', useless.

For a lot of people, enduring the pain is a much simpler path than the mental battle required to overcome those past ideologies. The ability to admit that they are wrong is a very steep and difficult path.

a reply to: LucidWarrior

welding the lid shut ?

a reply to: LucidWarrior

I came across this quote from F Scott Fitzgerald the other day.

“For what it's worth... it's never too late, or in my case too early, to be whoever you want to be. There's no time limit. Start whenever you want. You can change or stay the same. There are no rules to this thing. We can make the best or the worst of it. I hope you make the best of it. I hope you see things that startle you. I hope you feel things you've never felt before. I hope you meet people who have a different point of view. I hope you live a life you're proud of, and if you're not, I hope you have the courage to start over again.”

I liked it, thought of it as I read your OP.

All the best.

Fear of someone being mad at me is what keeps me in the box. The cure is to allow conflict.

a reply to: ConscienceZombie

Hello conscious zombie, I am sorry that you know this box so well, but it warms my heart immensely that I could have brought you some measure of comfort by describing the plight i percieve myself to be in. I sincerely hope my words can be of use to you, that they do increase your life expectancy but also help you to live.

If i may ask, did you have a nonception of this box as a box before my thread? If not, what was your mode of describing the plight? I have seen and heard from many different people that waxing poetic on pain, that focusing n the problem, when its mental, only makes things worse, which is true at first because now you have the pain of realizing excatly your situation and despai of not being able to change it, but by describing you give yourself the tools to get out.

This box is all I know. It's my space that has been there where no others were. A space to be my true self without ridicule or pain. So much pain, you open your box to few and even less remain.

I know exactly this, but yet, can you see, that that is itself the problem? We are comfortable, in our boxes, we are free in our boxes and that only makes us all the more likely to stay in the box and not leave it. but its not truly either comfort or freedom we experience there, its complacency, security in the known and the easy, no matter how debilitating, and fear of change and effort, no matter how much positivity it means.

I love you brother, we will make it through this.

Generally agree with the OP's feelings...

If the box is your 'self' - then the box is the self and its various attachments, yes? In psychological terms, different objects in the external environment possess a structural significance within our brains. Through all sorts of associations, suppositions, and transformations, early "good objects" transform from concrete to less concrete, more abstract forms, until finally a political belief, philosophical position, or metaphysical conviction, can function in exactly the same way as a teddy bear does for a 4 year old: as something which gives one comfort.

But were not happy if were disconnected from the whole. It's a simple law of physics: a mind which fails to represent - through its consciousness - the reality of its dynamical relatedness to other people and the natural phenomena around it - comes to process energy through its system in less than ideal - optimal - ways, and so what we experience is negative affects like anxiety, anger, frustration and depression. All of these, in fact, are interlinked, snaking their way back to the 'original' issue: shame, and the inability to process shame without the support of Other's in the environment.

So that is the number one issue: Shame. Your shame - and my sensitivity to your shame. If I fail to recognize it, I provoke you into anger and/or a general stress response, because as a Human being, you have a natural and normal formative need (species typical) to hope that you will be heard and understood.

Therefore, understanding is necessary. Helping you - and even helping myself - leaves me no choice - a limitation that I personally celebrate, because it speaks to a bizarre paradox: no matter how horrible you have been, I want to help you - and not mythologize a narrative about you being the paragon of evil. That $hit, the myth - the falsity of the narrative because it defines a meaning with no relation to empirical/physical processes/laws - is ubiquitous in todays minds and cultures, simply because we fail to recognize that conversation define what happens within our minds and so what we feel safe to talk about.

The reality is this: you are what your environment makes of you. All of the sciences show this. There is no ontological division between 'inside' (mind) and outside (world). There is just atoms, and the way energy is transformed, converted, and reconciled (i.e. attraction/repulsion dynamics). There is light, there is water, and there is the laws of electrodynamics in the self-organization process of a physical organism.

Sorry if any of this seems cocky or know-it-all. My intention is to defend the rightness of your cause: I want to enforce this feeling you have of wanting to get outside of your box, which you recognize entails going 'outside' i.e. appealing to others, to let them know that how we respond affects how powerful you feel vis-à-vis your issues.