Do evil and good archetypal godhead figures exist?

We all know the traditional stories for the battle of good and evil on the earth. We are all aware of archetypal evil and good godheads as described in many mythological traditions and in mainstream religions such as Christianity, but do they truly exist?

For the sake of debate I'm going to introduce Lucifer as the archetypal evil character from the critically acclaimed Christian belief system...

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High’" (Isaiah 14:12-14).

Lucifer in the bible represents opposition to the forces of good. He represents sin, death, lies and other forms of traditional immortality. He is the antithesis of god, hate, greed and envy.

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High’" (Isaiah 14:12-14).

In my opinion this force of evil works it's way into the world through secret societies taking advantage of mans ability to create through our ego and insecurities.

I truly believe in the law of opposites or the law of reversal. The evil force/archetype works through humans using the law of reversal and esoteric ritual practices (not all but some). Aliester Crowleys "Do what thou wilt" as an example. Theoretically I believe that the Satanic(Luciferian) principle axiom of "Do what thou wilt" is that mans intelligence and ability to create is superior to that of nature/god/universal good/intelligence. That by putting man ahead of god is the true answer.

This is partly why I believe science is the religion of the New World Order. The goal of the NWO is to unify man under a single motif speaking a single language (english) with a single religion (science) and a single cause/goal. I believe that they want to bring humanity together to harness the potential of man to create to master the elements of the physical world and to put our consciousness into machines.

Now that that's off my chest let's look at the godhead of good under a similar religion (Christianity).

Jesus of Nazereth

Do I need to explain more?

Jesus in biblical mythos (or reality who really knows) represents all that is good in humanity. He is alleged to represent good/love/wisdom/ intelligence/ caring/honesty/self sacrifice and service to others.

The exact opposite philosophy of Satanism and Thelema.

Do you think that's a coincidence?

I started just wanting to, once again, explain that Lucifer is not the same as Satan but then I noticed that you're equating Thelema to Satanism and Satanism to Luciferianism...

Dude, with all due respect, do your homework. Those are all different things.

Lucifer is, biblically, a reference to the planet Venus and is very much not Satan. The verse you mentioned is an insult to a Babylonian king saying that he thought too much of himself. That he likened himself to the morning star, Lucifer, Venus...

Satanism, that of the Church of Satan, is not Luciferianism. It's atheism with some pomp and pageantry.

Luciferianism is the belief in an actual being which is opposed to the Abrahamic God.

Aleister Crowley was not a Satanist or Luciferian. Far from it actually. He didn't believe any one religion had the entire story right and spent his life looking for the kernel of truth that he believed each religion held.

a reply to: Noncents

You are to focused on the labels and not enough on the actual ideas.

The labels are examples of popular thought so that people can easily identify with the ideas they allegedly represent.

a reply to: toysforadults
Satanists are atheist. They do not believe in Satan. You equate that to Luciferians that do... It's not about labels, it's about their beliefs being very different things.

a reply to: Noncents

You can pedantically discuss the labels or you can discuss the ideas.

I won't be discussing the labels.

If you want to debate what modern Satanism is and it's origins in popular culture feel free to start a thread.

Ok. To answer the questions you posed in your OP...

Do "godheads" of good and evil found in Christianity exist?
No, they do not. Christianity has only one godhead.

Do you need to explain more?
Not until you have a basic realistic understanding of the religions and terms you are mixing up.

Do I think it is a coincidence that Christianity is the opposite philosophy of Satanism and Thelema?
They're not opposites at all...

Have a wonderful day.

a reply to: Noncents

Do "godheads" of good and evil found in Christianity exist?

The examples in Christianity were used because they are most commonly understood in most English speaking countries not as a strict guideline to be discussed directly.

Not until you have a basic realistic understanding of the religions and terms you are mixing up.

Of course if you can't see past the labels to understand the ideas they represent in most popular culture this discussion will be impossible because you are fixated on labels and not understanding/ grasping the larger ideas they represents to most people not schooled in Satanism/ Luciferanism/ and other Esoteric traditions.

This post was designed to reach a broader audience with the intent of an engaging discussion and not the five people who actually devoutly research Thelema, Satanism and Luciferianism.

The majority of the population (and probably members) more than likely have a traditional understanding of these figures and therefor will more than likely be able to understand the point being made with their examples.

If you can't do that I apologize.

Do I think it is a coincidence that Christianity is the opposite philosophy of Satanism and Thelema?

Christianity is in fact the opposite of Thelema and Satanism (in your schools of thought) in that Thelema's principles of "Do what thou wilt" (selfish) is exactly the opposite of Christians belief in service to others and to good (unselfish).

Jesus sacrificed himself for the good of man while Satanism and Thelema are about manifesting your own desire.

Levayen Satanism (Church of Satan)

Since the Satanist understands that all Gods are fiction, instead of bending a knee in worship to—or seeking friendship or unity with—such mythical entities, he places himself at the center of his own subjective universe as his own highest value.

As I stated in the OP, man above god.

We Satanists are thus our own “Gods,” and as beneficent “deities” we can offer love to those who deserve it and deliver our wrath (within reasonable limits) upon those who seek to cause us—or that which we cherish—harm.

Need I say more?

Thelema (Grand Lodge)

but rather as the divine mandate to discover one’s True Will or true purpose in life, and to accomplish it; leaving others to do the same in their own unique ways

Yes I get it, do what thou wilt is commonly misunderstood by the masses. It's about discovering your divine purpose (funny huh?).

Hidden within the Thelemic doctrine is.....

Not every Thelemite utilizes all the practices available, there is considerable room for each individual practitioner to choose practices which are suitable to his or her individual needs. Some of these practices are the same as, or similar to, the practices advocated by many of the great religions of the past and present; such as prayer, meditation, study of religious texts (those of Thelema and of other religions as well), chanting, symbolic and initiatory ritual, devotional exercises, self-discipline, etc. However, some of our practices have been traditionally associated with what has generally been known as “occultism”; i.e., astrology, divination, numerology, yoga, tantric alchemy, and discourse with “angels” or “spirits” are all taken by Thelemites as potentially effective means for obtaining spiritual insights into the nature of one’s being and one’s place in the universe; and for the fulfillment of such insights through harmonious, evolutionary works.

Using esoteric magickal practice to manifest your alleged true will or desire is still placing the intelligence of man and man himself over that of the will of god's and or the greater universal intelligence.

It may be hard for you to grasp but it's there.

Look use this video, go to Hell and if you want to risk it have a look around and see if there are any evil archetypes. www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: toysforadults
This post was designed to reach a broader audience with the intent of an engaging discussion and not the five people who actually devoutly research Thelema, Satanism and Luciferianism.

Oh, I get it now. You think five people have a functional understanding of religions other than Christianity.

Yeah. I'm done here.

originally posted by: Noncents

originally posted by: toysforadults
This post was designed to reach a broader audience with the intent of an engaging discussion and not the five people who actually devoutly research Thelema, Satanism and Luciferianism.

Oh, I get it now. You think five people have a functional understanding of religions other than Christianity.

Yeah. I'm done here.

That's what I thought.

a reply to: toysforadults

My good friend listen to Nocents because you have taken a somewhat superficial to inaccurate view of the meaning of these terms.


When you read those sites that hurl invective at occultists and throw around these weighty terms like Lucifer, Satanism without meaning, understanding or context one easily can get led astray.

Please...dig a little deeper, for you have a good heart guard it against ignorance, intolerance and you will prosper

a reply to: Willtell

Thanks for the reply Willtell!

You will have to respond to my latest posting!

a reply to: toysforadults


Hey welcome to ATS.

You have an interesting topic. But keep in mind this is an internet that is free to join and open to the public.

"Slings and Arrows of outrageous fortune


Thousands of years ago the majority of the people in the world believed the Universe ended just past the range of Saturn.

Today our conclusions based upon the same level of sensory ability we had then we understand the issue differently. Now clearly this did not happen overnight. But to be clear and in my opinion, history offers a lot more than just conclusions
about spirituality that relate to the limits of human ability. To comprehend our physical and spiritual relationships with our environment.

Further there is more to it than the labeling that occurs in relation to how those in recorded history identified with this Phenomenon. And despite the objection of some worthy of looking into beyond the veils of clear misunderstanding's,
the result of limits to comprehension of our environment.

Fundamental to all systems of belief is the issue of contemplation. Be it meditation, prayer or dancing with a spiritual perspective in mind.

In consideration to modern technology we know this results in neural connections that benefit people.

We are descendants of Predators. The reason that the primordial descendants of Cows and Sheep cannot debate ideas on the Internet, Is because they did not eat meat.

Is it evil for you to be cooperating with your government because people on Earth are dying of starvation? Consider the opinion that mankind is evil because each and every individual is not concerned to the extent over the plight those in
our world who could live off what other put in their garbage.

Civilization is a work in progress.

Human development is a work in progress.

The Antithesis of God is not evil it is indifference.

Imo the archetypes manifest as descriptions of the energies that interact between beings.

I don't subscribe to a perspective where absolutes(in this case good/evil) can exist in a universe limited to time and space.I feel the tension between these polarities is what provides for motion, or a sense of time.In essence, one's idea of good and evil, framing our opportunities to learn and grow.

We should be practice caution, with the labels we choose to describe others.It's easy for labels to limit one's choices, by confusing what is for what we imagine it to be...

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

Interesting, so you believe in a good and evil force (in a sense) but without a... hmmm how can I say, without form?

a reply to: toysforadults

The virtues manifesting in infinite forms, through the various planes of time and space.

Edit:Another way to describe it would be likening electricity to an animating force in life, or the individuals picture gravity as a force of nature...

Yes. Duality. Only one of these poles provides life. The other is the inverted image of the Source signal (of life). The inverted image is not an equal. Through the overlooked nature of 'reflection', man has errantly assumed otherwise.


Look closely. Only one pole is active/dynamic/living. It feeds the other pole, which provides an inverted reflection. There is much more to reflection where man takes for granted his assumptions are temporarily sufficient. The reflected wave contains no fundamental (source/life), it is formed by pulses of particles following the source wave (1/2 wavelength behind). We now have a giant low frequency Sine input, opposed by a pulse code modulation: an array of high frequency low amplitude pulses that have sampled recorded and approximated the inverted shape of the Source wave, yet containing a fractional amount of power. UNFORTUNATELY, nothing in the "bi-verse" was programed to distinguish analogue from digital space signals, and it is experienced as a uni-verse, life, death, and the limited perception of the in between.

The Static pole was not always static. It "lost its legs", a notable event buried from modern awareness.


It is no longer a covering (in phase), but an Adversary (out of phase with Source).




Contemporary mystics see the resultant field of these interactions as a unified creator god.



While earlier shamans saw the 'Jesus fish' and 'lucifer eye' as opposing forces, without realizing these forces both span Nibiru, a smooth S and a jagged Zigzag posing as an S on every level of recursion from subatomic to galactic (don't look higher, its only bent light and a spiral trail of showing the same n-body at different points in time; no countless galaxies, only 2 dimensions, and a bunch of personal opinion attempting to over complicate the understanding of the electro-plasmagnetic Bi-verse).


Man, lion, spring fall - christ. The Rectus hand of God provides the inward spiraling waveform of Life.


The other half of the Sphinx is the reflection, the Sinister spiral. The dynamic pole, the 'hand', and the 'Spirit' it provides is opposed by the unholy trinity.



Where it gets confusing is how the "flower of life" situates the static pole at the center as a Gravityanchor : Yes, the Negative (Source) circles the Positive (inverted reflection) like a rim on a hub, the balance between magnetically influenced centripedal and centrifugal forces dictated by the net polar charge of the n-bodies acting as electrical 'spokes'.

Leedskalnin almost had it right.


But the Sinister has been Static for quite some time!

Dont let some Wilcockian youtuber confuse Sinister with Sine or Static with' the straight and narrow', I assure you: Idle hands are the Devils playground!

What's good and what's evil depends on where you're standing.

In the years since I last actively posted here, I've been on ground in a warzone for a little while. Some people will think I'm "bad" simply after learning which side I fought for. And I think they're idiots for supporting the other side. And so it goes.

But as for some deeper stuff, well once again, it all comes down to perspective. You'll have more freedom once you liberate yourself from the black and white concepts of good and evil. In my life I've learnt to just be humble, do what needs doing, and be proud, and be ambitious (whilst still remaining humble somehow - it's a challenge!) but yeah nah good vs evil just bores me now. I find it to be a rather narrow and limited way of looking at things. I just look at things empirically. Seems to work.

I've thought about religion, god, spirituality and metaphysics for most of my life.
It's consumed many hours of thought and understanding as to why and how religion works and one thing has boiled down from such deep thinking on the matter.

Religion, in all it's forms and ways it's actually separated humans and caused centuries if not more of fighting and conflict, I don't think it's even remotely part of god.

If there is a god, I don't think god would want different versions of worship that causes such strife among so many, while yes it helps some, but that could also be said to just being human to one another and being empathetic.

We are all human, so why would ANY of us be separate?

We are ONE.

How much more good, compassion, understanding and collaboration would have been achieved if we didn't fight over such petty concepts?

If there is a duality going on, it would be in our own minds as to how to treat one another and treat ourselves.

Good and Evil doesn't seem like descriptive enough words for such actions, when many are really based on greed, love, emotional triggers, poor judgement, extraordinary empathy and so forth. It's more of less flavors of our mindsets at any given time than it is someone being simply good or evil.

Good & Evil are very relative to the opinion of those observing, but don't measure up to the actual explination of the cause. For many times, the cause is much more complicated.

I'm not saying that someone can't be evil, but that it's not why they are causing harm or suffering, they are choosing too from poor judgement, from a troubled upbringing, even mental disorders, much more goes into a being to act as they are and it's often a result rather than a conscious decision most times.

If an A.I. begins to learn humans but then starts to only hurt humans because the pain becomes a quicker way to get them to do things, are they evil? Or have they just misunderstood or only understood part of a much bigger equation. Harm might be a good motivator for humans by an A.I. but if that A.I. also learned how love and compassion can also be a good motivator, in fact a better motivator as it encourages growth and inspiration, then the A.I. would use such, but it wouldn't be good, it would be following logical and rational steps to get something done.