Origins of The Ashkenazim

Contrary to what anti-Semites and Anti-Zionists have "sold" you about the Ashkenazim's ORIGINS near the Black Sea there is no evidence to support this.

Please read the following articles and you can follow up all the references from there:

www.jewishhistory.org...

Thanks to efforts from people like Rabbi Chananel and Rabbi Isaac the Jewish community in North Africa became very strong. Jews from that community would move into Spain when the Moors invaded and colonized Spain. At the same time the Sephardic communities were developing in North Africa and Spain, the Ashkenazic Jews were developing in France and the German Rhineland. Even though these two Jewish communities developed at the same time they occupied two completely different worlds, so to speak.

The spiritual founder of Ashkenazic Jewry was Rabbi Gershom ben Judah, known as Rabbeinu Gershom. He was the last of the Geonim. Born in 960 CE in Mainz (he died in 1030 CE), he lived most of his life in the French Rhineland, though he did travel as far as today’s Yugoslavia on the Adriatic. He is the father of Ashkanazic Jewry in the same way that Rabbi Chananel and Rabbi Isaac, the Rif, were the fathers of Sephardic Jewry.

Another decree of Rabbeinu Gershom had to do with apostate Jews. We cannot imagine the pressure Jews were subject to in medieval Europe to convert to Christianity. The pressure was not only economic and social, but came with the threat of death and torture. Many of these Jews recanted on their deathbeds. Others wanted to be accepted back into the Jewish community or at least be buried in a Jewish cemetery. There were many Jews who resented that – especially those who suffered under the same trying circumstances but did not succumb. They harbored an understandable feeling of animosity and bitterness toward those who did give in. Nevertheless, Rabbeinu Gershom defended the right of apostate Jews to return to Judaism. This policy was a milestone in Jewish history. These were only some of Rabbeinu Gershom’s decrees. All told, they helped lay the groundwork for European Jewry until this day. That is why he was considered the father of Ashkenazic Jewry.

en.wikipedia.org...

Ashkenazi Jews, also known as Ashkenazic Jews or simply Ashkenazim (Hebrew: אַשְׁכְּנַזִּים‎, Ashkenazi Hebrew pronunciation: [ˌaʃkəˈnazim], singular: [ˌaʃkəˈnazi], Modern Hebrew: [aʃkenaˈzim, aʃkenaˈzi]; also יְהוּדֵי אַשְׁכֲּנַז‎ Y'hudey Ashkenaz),[16] are a Jewish diaspora population who coalesced as a distinct community in the Holy Roman Empire around the end of the first millennium.[17] The traditional diaspora language of Ashkenazi Jews is Yiddish (which incorporates several dialects), with Hebrew used only as a sacred language until relatively recently. Throughout their time in Europe, Ashkenazim have made many important contributions to philosophy, scholarship, literature, art, music, and science.[18][19][20][21]

Ashkenazim originate from the Jews who settled along the Rhine River, in Western Germany and Northern France.[22] There they became a distinct diaspora community with a unique way of life that adapted traditions from Babylon, The Land of Israel, and the Western Mediterranean to their new environment.[23] The Ashkenazi religious rite developed in cities such as Mainz, Worms, and Troyes. The eminent French Rishon Rabbi Shlomo Itzhaki (Rashi) would have a significant impact on the Jewish religion.

In Jeremiah 51:27, Ashkenaz figures as one of three kingdoms in the far north, the others being Minni and Ararat, perhaps corresponding to Urartu, called on by God to resist Babylon.[38][39]

In the Yoma tractate of the Babylonian Talmud the name Gomer is rendered as Germania, which elsewhere in rabbinical literature was identified with Germanikia in northwestern Syria, but later became associated with Germania. Ashkenaz is linked to Scandza/Scanzia, viewed as the cradle of Germanic tribes, as early as a 6th-century gloss to the Historia Ecclesiastica of Eusebius.[40] In the 10th-century History of Armenia of Yovhannes Drasxanakertc'i (1.15) Ashkenaz was associated with Armenia,[41] as it was occasionally in Jewish usage, where its denotation extended at times to Adiabene, Khazaria, Crimea and areas to the east.[42] His contemporary Saadia Gaon identified Ashkenaz with the Saquliba or Slavic territories,[43] and such usage covered also the lands of tribes neighboring the Slavs, and Eastern and Central Europe.[42] In modern times, Samuel Krauss identified the Biblical "Ashkenaz" with Khazaria.[44]

en.wikipedia.org...

Khazar state: culture and institutions Royal Diarchy with sacral Qağanate Khazaria developed a Dual kingship governance structure,[64] typical among Turkic nomads, consisting of a shad/bäk and a qağan.[65] The emergence of this system may be deeply entwined with the conversion to Judaism.[66] According to Arabic sources, the lesser king was called îšâ and the greater king Khazar xâqân; the former managed and commanded the military, while the greater king's role was primarily sacral, less concerned with daily affairs. The greater king was recruited from the Khazar house of notables (ahl bait ma'rûfīn) and, in an initiation ritual, was nearly strangled until he declared the number of years he wished to reign, on the expiration of which he would be killed by the nobles.[67][68][69][70] The deputy ruler would enter the presence of the reclusive greater king only with great ceremony, approaching him barefoot to prostrate himself in the dust and then light a piece of wood as a purifying fire, while waiting humbly and calmly to be summoned.[71] Particularly elaborate rituals accompanied a royal burial. At one period, travellers had to dismount, bow before the ruler's tomb, and then walk away on foot.[72] Subsequently, the charismatic sovereign's burial place was hidden from view, with a palatial structure ('Paradise') constructed and then hidden under rerouted river water to avoid disturbance by evil spirits and later generations. Such a royal burial ground (qoruq) is typical of inner Asian peoples.[73] Both the îšâ and the xâqân converted to Judaism sometime in the 8th century, while the rest, according to the Persian traveller Ahmad ibn Rustah, probably followed the old Tūrkic religion.[74][75]

Above I have tried to give you a quick history via quotes of the Ashkenazim. It is a fascinating history. Of course, we know that in Germany the biggest loss to Jews was the Ashkenazim. Hitler really meant business and had a good old go at them, but their might prevailed.

Those articles that call the Rothschilds and others "imposters" really are wrong. The Ashkenazim began before Christ in Israel's north. If you look at modern Kazakhstan people they are oriental looking which the Rothschilds and the Western Jews are not.

The Rothschilds came from the German/French Ashkenazim. They seem to have their roots going right back to the Babylon Jewish communities, after Christ. How these Jews got to Babylon must relate either to being refugees there after the Roman sacking 66-70 AD era or they could be a remnant from the Babylonian exile who remained after the Jews returned earlier.

Sorry about all the quotes. When writing about history we have to try and be as factual as possible, else we end up believing ludicrous lies.

Are you composing a middle eastern song?

files.abovetopsecret.com...





Damn curries!

Who stars and flags a nonexistent OP?

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
Who stars and flags a nonexistent OP?

The same type of people who dislike great youtube videos, people who want to see the world burn

Still it's better the OP is composing rather than decomposing

a reply to: Revolution9

I have to wonder, why would a regular member do that?
(We are to wait with bated breath, or to give us a chance to write up some replies even before the meat of the thread comes? )

Curious, just plain curious.

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: Revolution9

I have to wonder, why would a regular member do that?
(We are to wait with bated breath, or to give us a chance to write up some replies even before the meat of the thread comes? )

Curious, just plain curious.

Nothing as lavish; the mouse hit the publish button after I made the title. So I had to compose the whole thing after the title had been published.

I don't know all the history. I am looking into it. These are just snippets and I wanted to encourage people to look for the actual history rather than believe all the crap that anti Semites write.

a reply to: Revolution9

From what I have read the Ashkenazim began as mainly Jewish refugee migrant's migrating to an empire which had adopted Jewish as it's state religion but these migrant's were definitely of Jewish Origin, many probably from Europe were diaspora had retained there religion and cultural identity in the face of unspeakable persecution, there are many that use the argument claiming wrongly that the Ashkenazim are Not Jew's because of this empire which was founded by Eurasian Conqueror's but the Genetic evidence proves that to be wrong as there is definite Beni Cohen genetic markers and other definite Semitic markers found among a very high percentage of Ashkenazim Jewry to this day, this Beni Cohen gene is found as far south as the Lemba people of south africa whom have always believed themselves to be Jewish and proves a definite male genetic lineage linking these people to the great diaspora of people's with Jewish tradition's and shared culture in many part's of the world.

Ultimately I would answer it like this, the The arguement that they are descendant's of the Khazars was simply to sell a book and it was a very good ploy to manage that but was used as Anti Jewish propeganda and has remained such and New research by another Equally qualified Jewish professor has proven it to be wrong and based on what is probably a historical lie.
forward.com...

Even if it was proven to be true the Jew's would have flocked to such a kingdom in order to escape the constant persecution the faced elsewhere, so Real Jew's fleeing persecution and not only from europe but from Persia, from Islamic country's and from Europe as well, this would have funneled tens' of thousand's of these refugees into what would have been a short lived safe haven but when that haven fell and they once again became refugee's they would have retained there faith and tradition's as they always' had while the supposed converts whom probably only part converted would likely have lost there new faith especially seeing the probably ethnic differences to these real jew's that had come to live under there protection.

So like the Sephardic Jew's, the Black Ethiopian Jew's (the Ethiopian orthodox Church was probably originally a Jewish sect that Accepted Jesus as the Messiah as evidenced by teh sacrificial alters for jewish ceremonys on the island of Elephantine on lake Tana) and the Black Lemba of South Africa (whom are mainly Christian today) the Ashkenazim are therefore Genuine Jew's.

The only real argument against them has been based on a deep seated hatred of Jewry and a wish to deny them the land of Jacob claiming it was never there's when in fact archaeological evidence proves that the Jew's did live there, it is there ancestral homeland denied to them by the Roman's, then the Christian's and finally the Arab's.

Not to go too off topic but many Islamic believer's claim that Jerusalem is a holy city to the Muslim's but to quote a Christian TV show hosted by Messianic Jew's whom accept Jesus Jerusalem is never actually mentioned even once in the Koran, the Arab occupation of the Temple mount therefore is nothing but that, an occupation.

I am a Zionist and will remain one till I die and beyond that so I do have a bias in favor of the state of Isreal and hope to see the temple rebuilt in my lifetime but I have not lied in what I have said here.

www.cohen-levi.org...
www.latimes.com...

Important note, many of the Palestinian's alive to day and indeed many Arab's have Jewish ancestry as well, in the case of the Arab's Muhammad was rejected by Jewish tribe's and ordered them wiped out, there unmarried woman taken as sex slaves, many Christian's are also descended from Jewish ancestry and the study of Haplogroup's only show's direct descent it does not show mixed lineage that skip's direct descent which of course would be the bulk of these descendant's.

So what really make's a Jew a Jew therefore apart from any genetic markers which ARE important is there cultural identity, there family belief's and there family tradition's.

If they had not been Jew's would they have so stubbornly stuck to there belief's when facing such dire persecution's over the century's.


Ultimately they do have a definite claim to there homeland but it is muddied by the fact that many of those they are in conflict with though having lost there tradition's and not identifying themselves as Jew's may also have the same ancestral claim and so too may many of us, from a religious point of view though they are undeniably right in there claim and may God Grant peace and an end to that conflict.

Anyway God bless Zion and grant peace there AND only peace there can prevent the potential for WW3 to really start there as indeed if peace is not found it may very well do so, Isreal is Nuclear armed, Saudi Arabia is Nuclear armed and perhaps soo too are several of the other involved nation's.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Revolution9

Anyway God bless Zion and grant peace there AND only peace there can prevent the potential for WW3 to really start there as indeed if peace is not found it may very well do so, Isreal is Nuclear armed, Saudi Arabia is Nuclear armed and perhaps soo too are several of the other involved nation's.

I take it you mean Israel. As for Zionist seeking peace, I do hope the days of blowing up hotels and killing foreigners while dressed as Arabs are over. Nukes don't impress me much as they will kill everybody, however chemical weapons are a bit more selective..let's hope they won't be used either.

originally posted by: Revolution9
Sorry about all the quotes. When writing about history we have to try and be as factual as possible, else we end up believing ludicrous lies.

originally posted by: Revolution9
Hitler really meant business and had a good old go at them, but their might prevailed.

You mention using quotes to retain factual accuracy, which is great. But then you add commentary that has no basis in reality. "Their might prevailed"? Really? World War II was evidence of the might of the Ashkenazim? Let's compare the might of the major Allies and their contribution to the resolution of conflict to that of the Ashkenazim.

I don't have a hand in the game; I have no sentiments regarding the history of the Ashkenazim. I'm just aghast at the inference that they somehow "prevailed" by "might". It's ludicrous.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
Who stars and flags a nonexistent OP?

People who don't take things like that so seriously?
People who just feel like it for some reason?

I didn't, not this thread anyway, but, I'm pretty sure I've done something similar before. As for why I would do it? Well, I just wanted to make people go "Who stars and flags a nonexistent OP?" because it's healthy for us to have these kinds of philosophical conversations, with ourselves or others.

a reply to: rickymouse

I could compose it, I'm told i have a really nice voice. I can even sing in hebrew.

Middle eastern music is one of my favorite sounds. It's all in the rhythm.

originally posted by: Neith
a reply to: rickymouse

I could compose it, I'm told i have a really nice voice. I can even sing in hebrew.

Middle eastern music is one of my favorite sounds. It's all in the rhythm.

I was listening to a girl from India sing one day on the internet, the words and tune was really soothing. It was so relaxing even though I did not understand a word of it.

a reply to: rickymouse

It's beautiful music i agree, thank you for adding that.