How North Korea could kill 90 percent of Americans

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: crazyewok

There will be a lot of military left in the US. And they're not going to just sit there while people die and cities burn. Yes, a lot of people will die, but not even remotely close to 90%.

I think you have more trust in your government than I would.

I can see some States coming out quite well.

But others? I see the urban states with very high mortality rates.

As for the military? It all depends on how the government responds......the federal governments record in disaster relief and help leaves much to be desired.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: crazyewok

There will be a lot of military left in the US. And they're not going to just sit there while people die and cities burn. Yes, a lot of people will die, but not even remotely close to 90%.

I think you have more trust in your government than I would.

I can see some States coming out quite well.

But others? I see the urban states with very high mortality rates.

As for the military? It all depends on how the government responds......the federal governments record in disaster relief and help leaves much to be desired.

Agreed, the cities will have the most casualties but you'll find that in the burbs and countryside, people are much more self reliant and will find a way to survive. And yes, most (or all) of them are armed.

a reply to: whywhynot

Initially yes, but then what happens when no fuel for any equipment, no fertilizer, no seed, no pharma for livestock etc. No nothing except your labor.

1880's is great but extremely labor intensive and time consuming - daylight to dark and more everyday.

Now consider that most urban dwellers common solution once they figure out government will not save them is to go out and ravage the country side.

Most will fail and die in that endeavor - it's the ones who do survive that will be huge problem as they will be hardened, determined and very dangerous, especially in groups. I have no doubt that's how will go down if societal controls cease completely.

Government, what's left, will be to busy defending it's backup sites to help you or anyone in remote areas, if any area for that matter.

Once defending against the horde you might have time to save a few livestock and possibly subsistence farm - maybe.

Eventually they will arrive no matter how remote you think you are.

I think it'd be back to 10th century myself and hope for protections feudal system might provide however fleeting that may be if can be organized in time and leaders are not complete despots.

I share the problem and it's one gives most grief in preparation.

a reply to: crazyewok

I'm not talking about a government response. Most, if not all of those units will head out on their own if they have to, and the National Guard guys are under state control until they're federalized.

NK hasn't ever managed more than a fizzle yield. 6kT doesn't make for a big EMP. Even if he knew how to optimize for it, which he doesn't.

He doesn't have thermonuclear weapons. He hasn't managed a decent yield for a simple nuclear weapon yet. Part of that is that he doesn't have very useful plutonium, and his current crop of warhead engineers don't know how to make a mixed design, and he doesn't have enough uranium to make an AQ Khan weapon.

He lost his last batch of somewhat competent weapons engineers. It's taken him years to almost get back to where he was. Time, maybe, for another mysterious happenstance.

a reply to: mobiusmale


The cia also said sadam had weapons of masd destruction

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: crazyewok

I'm not talking about a government response. Most, if not all of those units will head out on their own if they have to, and the National Guard guys are under state control until they're federalized.

Lets just hope we wont ever have to find out

originally posted by: Bedlam
NK hasn't ever managed more than a fizzle yield. 6kT doesn't make for a big EMP. Even if he knew how to optimize for it, which he doesn't.

He doesn't have thermonuclear weapons. He hasn't managed a decent yield for a simple nuclear weapon yet. Part of that is that he doesn't have very useful plutonium, and his current crop of warhead engineers don't know how to make a mixed design, and he doesn't have enough uranium to make an AQ Khan weapon.

He lost his last batch of somewhat competent weapons engineers. It's taken him years to almost get back to where he was. Time, maybe, for another mysterious happenstance.

How dare you insinuate the spooks did something good for the USofA. The fake news meme is that they are incompetent and not to be trusted and it is disseminated liberally across ATS far and wide.

a reply to: mobiusmale

www.israelnationalnews.com...

(I'm not up on posting links, but the above is my source).

The prospect is scary, and I think very real.

As per the above, the scenario has been portrayed in the docudrama "American Blackout". It is a scary scene, and one that could apply in Europe also.

The defence against EMP impact on the isn"t military, but industrial.

The power industry needs to make the investment in well understood techniques to minimise EMP impacts. The cost, per the source above quoting the FERC would be 20 cents on average for the average electricity rate payer.

Seems a small price to pay, and it makes me wonder what all G7 members are doing.

originally posted by: TonyS

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: hutch622

For sure it would be ugly.

An emp over the northeast would be really really bad.

YEah and instantly you have millions of volunteers wanting pay back just itching to be given a gun to enact some revenge.

Hilarious. Yea, I can see all the wealthy leftist types in New York and Boston volonteering to go fight NK! They'd probably be more inclined to surrender and pay up big bucks to NK to insure it doesn't happen again.

No. The leftist would welcome their new overlords. I should had been specific to just say certain people and not the old,rich,and cowardly. Point is there would be no shortage of volunteers for the army,air force,and marines,and navy afterwards. As also those would be the only places to get food and water to go defend the US from further aggression.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: crazyewok

All that assumes the military and people that CAN help just sit around with their thumb up their ass doing nothing.

Rock and a hard place for sure.

In full on situation let's say Commander of Guard Unit located just outside an urban area decides to attempt restoration of order after first few days.

What's he got to work with?

Food - not near enough
Potable water - not near enough
Fuel - not near enough
Medicine - not near enough

That leaves,

Firepower - not near enough either, in fact it may attract those willing to do anything to possess it.

There's just to many of "them"

No matter the good motives a Commander would squander his valuable resources in men and resources in a vain attempt doomed to failure because it'll go straight to violence quickly even with good intentions.

I know this sounds bad, but in bad situation, it'd be smart Commander that regrouped in AO that is resource rich and defendable and wait out initial chaos in order to preserve command for potential rebuilding later.

Doing something in or around major or even medium urban area under extreme circumstances is pissing unit away IMHO.

The situation described in OP is magnitudes beyond any modern disaster and it won't take long for folks to realize the gravity of it. All bets off after that.

a reply to: Doxanoxa

burying power lines would be the cheapest to do currently. Secondly is pre manufacturing transformers and equipment that will be burned out and stockpiling it.

And really a EMP would not knock out all vehicles. Military vehicles are survivable as well as alot of civilian vehicles according to testing.

a reply to: yuppa

Good point; you're probably right at least as far as the corn fed farm boys and cow girls in fly over country are concerned.

But of course, they're used to it; they've been fighting the evil rich peoples wars for generations.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: mobiusmale

A sensational title to say the least...but maybe we should pay attention, when the article is written by a former CIA Director.

Thats how we know its Bulls***. More likely we will decimate the rest of some whole peninsula formerly known as Korea, just like we are doing the ME, right friggin now.

Iraq

Syria

"WE"...did this?....uh huh, got it, keep living that dream.

Guarantee we know more about the NORKS than they know about themselves. An EMP is definitely my biggest concern but if one struck us it's almost certainly because we let it happen so we could write the entire country out of history. Remember back in desert storm we were dropping missiles down chimneys. In Afghanistan we developed bunker buster missiles in 40 days time. And all that isn't even our good stuff.

EMP Nuke?

Lol

What are 500 north Koreans gonna throw it at us?

Yes I'm sure they are a bigger problem than they would like us to believe. They should 'export democracy' to North Korea.

Or let China take it over.

Either way, little Kim needs to go.

IF anything comes of this, as in, they attack some other country with success, it's because we all let it happen.

~Tenth

Kim's not an idiot, his whole retardedly opulent lifestyle is predicated upon appearing strong in front of his terrified impotent people. He's not going to throw that power and lifestyle away by starting a war he knows he can't win where the entire population of North Korea angrily realises he's not actually a God but a chubby half blind nerd as Pyongyang burns to the ground.

Half of his bats**t ideas probably come from playing western video games as he faceplants a diamond encrusted bowl of coc aine.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: yuppa

Yup. We'd need it.

They got alot of troops, reserves and paramilitary.

But it would definitely be poking the hornets nest. Something they may want to rethink.

Why would the USA set a single American troop foot on North Korean soil when we have the ability to leave Ryongsang Palace little more than a gaping craterous pock mark on the Earth should the fat little tool running their nation decide to initiate any attack on the US?

"North Korean then, theoretically has the present capability to basically wipe out the USA with a single EMP nuke. American submarine forces would no doubt then return the favour...so this still sounds like a MAD scenario"


An EMP burst might indeed take out a lot of electronics, maybe all theoretically. That would certainly kill millions and millions ....... of boredom because their smartphones and computer games would fail to work. A third or more of the population running around in circles in mindless despair.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: yuppa

Yup. We'd need it.

They got alot of troops, reserves and paramilitary.

But it would definitely be poking the hornets nest. Something they may want to rethink.

Why would the USA set a single American troop foot on North Korean soil when we have the ability to leave Ryongsang Palace little more than a gaping craterous pock mark on the Earth should the fat little tool running their nation decide to initiate any attack on the US?

After many many days of bombing them the troops are just for clean up purposes. Because china will want th e land as non radioactive as possible.