1958, when Muslims laughed at the idea of imposing the hijab to women

a reply to: Logarock

Well who is the biggest sponsor of the House of Saud? If the House of Saud wasn't as wealthy as right now, they will never be able to export Radical Islam to other countries including the West.

There is no doubt that the policies of the US, Britain, France (particularly heavy handed in regions they use to occupy) and the Russians affected this area greatly.

One thing is for sure is these countries use to be so cosmopolitan and rich in culture, and had been that way for millennia and were growing and changing just as the west was. Keep in mind up until the 60's in the US, Australia, UK etc women were not encouraged to work outside secretarial and shop sales type of work, nor were african american given opportunity toward outside of low paying jobs. American/The wests culture at this time was not a bastion of social reform.

I will point out there is also over hang from colonialism in Egypt, Syria, Algeria etc.
Combine that with the last 40 years of global economics and politics there is the spark that led to the embracing of extremism.

Lebanon was the Paris of the middle east. Iran was out of this world in terms of Persian glamour.
I have a great video of me in Beirut, I drove down the green-line where buildings were bombed and destroyed in the civil war (well discounting the 200 000 Syrians troops that were in there it was a civil war) and we parked the truck got our and had drink by the sea at the Hard rock cafe lol!

a reply to: zazzafrazz

You should tell more of your experience in Beirut. I have a very strong interest on the Islamic world and reading about your experiences would have been wonderful.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Syria, Israel, Egypt Lebanon, Bahrain, the Emirates etc these trips were a bit of work, and then mostly fun! If I had a meeting there I usually would take vacuation afterwards, Once I did an outright vacation for 2 months trucking through north Africa, so more of a travel blog I may one day bore people with. But I kind if feel it's a bit like forcing people to watch your holidays slide show. Hell!

Another time another thread maybe

originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: starwarsisreal

You know we have other religions that impose a particular type of dress on their followers. The Amish come to mind. The women have to wear their bonnets, old style dress and they're not allowed to wear make-up. The men have to wear those same "Little House on the Prairie" style of overalls and have to grow beards.

I don't follow any religion, but I think it's extremely controlling and for their followers to be so complicit in adapting these habits shows how religion brainwashes humanity at a very young age. There's no free will at birth because parents force their beliefs on their children at a very young age. They conform to these oppressed religious life styles and don't dare thinking outside the box.

The reason why most people are a particular religion or follow a particular political belief is because their parents instill these beliefs in their children at a very young age. Most wouldn't think of changing their beliefs as they get older because of the constant fear of condemnation and the threat of burning in hell after they die. The fear is deep seeded and to believe otherwise will give them a ticket to eternal damnation.

People follow these religions that enslave them or continue to think these beliefs are from a loving God. Even after their own belief systems have proven to be hypocritical, judgmental, and justify killing God's own creations! Religion has been responsible for a lot of conflicts and killings in this world. Talk about being sheeple, people need to wake up and smell the roses. You can lead a caring and loving life without enslaving yourself or having people who are no better than yourselves control how you think. The only "religion" we need to follow in life is the Golden Rule.

That's some fine false equivalence you got there. You think atheists don't do the same with their offspring?

Or anyone with a particular set of beliefs? I guarantee there are at least a couple people on ATS who do this very thing, and it has nothing to do with religion.

originally posted by: twfau
But doesn't this emphasise the point that the things we associate with Islam (headscarfs covering the face, chopping hands off, executions, misogyny etc) are more to do with the politics of those individual countries.

True. But look deeper. I is the age old battle between the conservatives who hearken back to a (mythical) golden age when men were men and women were women and the socially progressive forces who are more liberal in outlook. Does this have any parallels with the west?

What I would like to know is when did Egypt loose the progressive struggle and how?

a reply to: starwarsisreal

I agree with this premise.

If you look at Lebanon in the 60's (I believe), they were known as the "Paris of the Middle East".

See Why Beirut Was Once Known As 'The Paris Of The Middle East'.

It wasnt until these nations were attacked by outsiders, the US, Israel etc., that they began to reject what they saw as Western Imperialism and everything associated with it.

Even Saddam, who was a US installed puppet, ran a secular nation.

The US in 1953 overthrew an Iranian democratically elected President because he wanted to nationalize profits from oil instead of letting multi-nationals profit from their resources.

With the US occupation of Iran via our dictator the Shah, we tried to outlaw "traditional" Moslem/Iranian norms.

As a result, 30 years later, the people responded with the "Islamic Revolution".

Had they been left alone to progress naturally, they too may very well have been a much more open society.

a reply to: starwarsisreal
Indeed, and there has been a massive propaganda campaign against the "better" dictators, Saddam and Gaddafi and Assad et al. It is interesting that the dictators who established peace and protected minorities just so happen to be the ones being bombed by the west!

I suggest if you wish to know more about the middle east/islamic world, simply travel there. There are many fabulous locales and peoples everywhere, even if our news makes them out to be devils. I was lucky enough to receive a partial scholarship and spent several years working across the region - Iran, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Turkey... and additionally I had the opportunity to stop by Egypt and a few other areas.

Everywhere I have gone I was treated very kindly. It makes me sad to see people vilify muslims endlessly on this site, as if they were all one evil person.




a reply to: zazzafrazz
I felt safer as an American in Syria than I do as an American in many places in Canada! It is so heartbreaking that their country was destroyed in the name of pipelines.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

True.

And I am certainly not an expert. When I first got into buying stuff online I went a bit nuts and bought a ton of DVDs on conspiracies etc. and that particular film really puts a lot of good info out there.

For those who haven't seen it.
I guessed it wouldn't explain everything, though.
I just needed some background on what's going on today and the mainstream info we got fed didn't make much sense to me.

Cheers.

a reply to: Wardaddy454

So what's your point? Atheism is a belief. Any belief is taught at a very young age. I didn't just give an example when it came to religion, I also gave the same example when it came to belonging to a particular political party. In the end, beliefs no matter if they're right or wrong are influenced by our parent's beliefs.

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: zazzafrazz

You should tell more of your experience in Beirut. I have a very strong interest on the Islamic world and reading about your experiences would have been wonderful.

I'm interrested in reading about sanctions put on Egypt for them allowing to teach it's ok to eat raw meat of Jews and Christians on Al-Azhar university. Stuff like that.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Don't think a Christian version of that couldn't possibly happen in the States.

Nowhere in the Koran does it say a woman has to be veiled, it was only a suggestion from Mohamed. When asked how could they stop the harassment when they went to the loo at night, he suggested that they wear some sort of cover so any potential annoyer, wouldn't see if she was young or old. So the usual idiots that seem to hang around religions, decided they should all be covered from head to toe.

a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ

originally posted by: PapagiorgioCZ
I'm interrested in reading about sanctions put on Egypt for them allowing to teach it's ok to eat raw meat of Jews and Christians on Al-Azhar university. Stuff like that.

Read about it, then: www.loonwatch.com...

Come on, dudes...

Exploiting the Jewish Holocaust (whether real or not) to get your way as the Zionists did after WW2 was a crude enough thing to do.

When you then factor in the ethnic cleansing of Arab Muslims and Christians that happened in many parts of what is now Israel by the Zionist 'settlers' there were millions of people across the region who wanted Israel wiped off the map and still do.

Nasser was just representing with some force rather than bowing down to the imperialist abusers of middle-east resources.

Interestingly, the Hebrew populations of the middle-east and north africa had managed to survive thousands of years in EVERY muslim country until the Zionist Homeland was violently birthed by European 'Jews'. Perhaps one of the factors, along with sitting on precious energy and the interests of imperialists, leading to the death of multi-culturalism in many of these countries was the entrance of the Zionists.