I've been doing some thinking. I'll accept transgender toilet rules on 1 condition.

a reply to: kaylaluv

You talk as though these non-discrimination laws all of a sudden make it legal for a man to rape someone in the women's room.

That is a ridiculous thing to say. I believe nothing of the sort.

You do not believe that these laws will make it easier for a predator to commit crimes. I do. Its as simple as that. I haven't fallen for anything. Whether the religious right don't want to legitimize transgender people is beyond me. I don't know and I don't care.

You all act as if the idea I am suggesting is so absurd it has to be some kind of right wing fear mongering conspiracy. So let me ask you this: until now, why have we had separate restrooms, locker rooms, changing rooms, etc, ? If both genders can occupy the same facilities with no issues regardless of their identity or sexual orientation or choice of clothing, why have we had separate facilities for so many years? And, whatever those reasons were, why do they suddenly mean nothing?

a reply to: Vroomfondel

I think if you've gotten so much blowback on your fake trans people or men dressing up to access the women's bathroom tirade is because in the 19 states and over 250 cities that have laws allowing trans people to use the bathroom that's best for them, this is not reported to be a thing that happens.

Please go back and read some of the links I posted. It doesn't appear that you did or you wouldn't still be harping on this.

a reply to: Freija

mediamatters.org is a liberal rag. You have your propaganda and I have mine. You proved nothing. All you did was show me propaganda contrary to mine. If mine does not serve as proof, neither does yours.

I have never seen so many people opposed to a simple desire to protect children from potential harm. I thought "wont someone think of the children" was a liberal battle cry. Funny how little it matters when it opposes some other liberal agenda.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

If you really care about the children, then we should ban handguns.

www.nbcnews.com...

a reply to: kaylaluv

Why? Lets ban cars. That would save a hell of a lot more lives than banning guns would. If you really care about children that is...

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: kaylaluv

Why? Lets ban cars. That would save a hell of a lot more lives than banning guns would. If you really care about children that is...

You're being sarcastic, but you are right. No reason to ban cars, guns, or force transgender people to use the restrooms that aren't right for them. Because children are going to die anyway, no matter how hard we try to stop it.

Instead of banning handguns, we try to educate people on gun safety. Instead of banning cars, we put in safety features like seat belts and improved crash ratings. Instead of forcing transgender people to use the restrooms that aren't right for them, we could do things to make restrooms safer for women (install cameras, or modify restrooms to be individual lockable rooms instead of common areas).

a reply to: kaylaluv

Take it from this guy:

originally posted by: MysticPearl

originally posted by: PageLC14
a reply to: fandancego

Now that's not a bad idea at all

Yes it is.

To hell with my tax dollars going to funding new bathrooms for every Tom, Dick and Harry who identifies themselves as something new.

Either people are scared of being raped or they're to stubborn to help pay for modifying the restrooms. Regardless, the idea behind this IS absurd.

 So let me ask you this: until now, why have we had separate restrooms, locker rooms, changing rooms, etc, ? If both genders can occupy the same facilities with no issues regardless of their identity or sexual orientation or choice of clothing, why have we had separate facilities for so many years? And, whatever those reasons were, why do they suddenly mean nothing?

Obviously having the separate bathrooms hasn't stopped women or children from being attacked so far, right?

a reply to: kaylaluv

Yes, or we could just let the guy junk use the guys room and girl junk use the girls room. Guy junk that identifies as girl junk, thinks its girl junk, wants to be girl junk, is still guy junk until it changes. And if no one is supposed to look and determine if someone is in the right room or not, what the phuck is all the noise about? This seems to be a whole lot of political fuss over the shape of the sign on the door...

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Like I said, it's not about bathrooms, just like it wasn't about water fountains. It's about making sure a selected group know that it is less than everyone else.

Laws should never be created that target innocent people.

Ever.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Like I said, it's not about bathrooms, just like it wasn't about water fountains. It's about making sure a selected group know that it is less than everyone else.

If you are a guy, regardless of how you feel or what you believe about yourself, how does using a mens restroom make you less than everyone else? That persecution complex is not my creation, its yours.

As for drinking fountains, racial segregation was a failed experiment. There is no legitimate reason for different ethnicity to use different drinking fountains. But there is legitimate reason for different gender to use different restrooms.

I am sorry, but the common sense part of this far outweighs the desires of the martyrs willingly suffering for their cause. I do not think of anyone as less than anyone else for being trans. But I don't think they should be special as opposed to all the non-trans people either.

This is much ado about nothing. To me this has the emotional weight of an argument to change the title "Mail Man" to "Person Person" because saying anything that sounds like ''male' or 'man' is sexist. Its just hard to take it seriously.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

So you're okay with forcing this trans girl to use the men's room



Without the non-discrimination laws, a high school could force her to use the boy's showers and bathrooms.

You're okay with forcing this trans man to use the women's room



Without the non-discrimination laws, an employer could threaten him with being fired if he didn't use the women's room, simply because he started working there before he transitioned.

Yeah, in a store or restaurant, both these people could probably get away with using the restroom right for them because no one would ever question them - but in the two examples I listed, they could still be discriminated against. They don't want special treatment. They want to pee in the place that fits them best.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I don't care what people look like and I don't care what they wear. None of that matters. What matters is their gender, and gender is not what you want or how you feel, it is what you are. If you are female, use the womens restroom. If you are male, use the mens restroom. If you get changed, the same rules apply. Use the one that matches your genitalia.

You aren't going to get any sympathy from me on this. I am handicapped. Do you know how often I go to use a handicapped restroom only to find it occupied by a non-handicapped person? Every single freakin' day. And handicapped IS a protected class. No one gives a phuck about the restroom use. The handicap stall is just a roomier stall that has handles for idiots to lean on while they play on their cell phones and make handicapped people wait because they have no choice.

I wish I could just decide I want to use this one or that one or say I feel like this today and act accordingly. Sorry, just because you don't get what you want doesn't mean you were discriminated against. The world isn't kissing your butt for your choice of restrooms? Boo freakin hoo. At least you won't soil yourself because you have no where to go while some asshole sits in the only handicap stall in the place without a second thought, or even a first one, about the people he is hurting. And I am not talking about hurt feelings. Some handicapped people have real issues that need to be dealt with and we don't always have the luxury of working our schedules around other people's lack of consideration.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

No sympathy from me. All you have to do is wait for the stall to be available, like any of us who go to a public restroom where all the stalls are taken. A trans person has a much bigger problem.

You are just proving my original point. It's not about some imaginary danger. It's not about bathrooms. It's about de-legitimizing the trans community. You've made it pretty obvious how you feel about this group.

The oppressive right may have won this battle for now. But the rest of us aren't done fighting, and we WILL eventually win the war.

Have a wonderful evening.

a reply to: kaylaluv

All you have to do is wait for the stall to be available

And with that one statement you have de-legitimized and disrespected an entire class of protected people. I suppose the same holds true for handicapped parking spaces too.

Sometimes waiting is not an option, especially for a handicapped person. Too many variables to discuss, but sitting around waiting because the ONE stall meant for your use is being taken by someone who doesn't care.

Some guy walking down the street decides one day he thinks he is a woman and wants to use the girls restroom. If that is too crowded he can still use the mens restroom. And if that is crowded he will probably take the handicapped stall. Thanks for respecting a protected class of people.

a reply to: kaylaluv

My biggest, and really the only problem about this bathroom issue, is exactly that. That transgirl should not even be questioned. She should be in the girls room.

If someone is going to ask her for ID to prove that she's a girl, then everyone has to have gender proof ID on them at all times. "She" looks way more feminine than I do. Other women, who were born as women, will have to show ID.
It's turning into "papers please".

I don't want to NOT be allowed in any women's restroom because of not having my ID on me. And I was born a woman, am still a woman. I'm gonna flip out if I'm questioned on that fact.

And I don't want a manly looking trans male in the women's bathroom, because THAT is exactly what opens up for men testing to see if they can also get away with being in women's restrooms.

originally posted by: snowspirit


And I don't want a manly looking trans male in the women's bathroom, because THAT is exactly what opens up for men testing to see if they can also get away with being in women's restrooms.

This is a very good point. If we have manly looking trans men going into the women's room, that just makes it easy for a guy to just walk in without any disguise, claiming he is a trans male. Where is the fear there?

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Nice try. What if it's another handicapped person using the handicapped stall when you go in there? You still have to wait until they finish.

Some guy walking down the street decides one day he thinks he is a woman and wants to use the girls restroom.

There you go, showing how you really feel about the transgender population. You are too transparent.