That 'Guilty' Look That Your Dog - Is fear

I've been content to lurk for years, but this is a topic that frustrates me to no end. I tried to log into an old account I had 8 or 9 years ago, but couldn't remember the password or the email (are old accounts erased?). So here I am, dragged back into ATS not by all the ridiculous politics of the last year, but by the dismissive and cold nature of ethologists (those who study animal behavior).

Multiple studies have been conducted over the last 15 years that prove without a doubt that dogs do share many of the of the emotions that humans also experience. I'm responding on my tiny, no frills phone, otherwise I would go into more depth, and share more links, but consider the implications of the study from the link below:

www.sciencedaily.com...

The link will (hopefully! Did it work?) take you to study demonstrating that dogs actually recognize and interpret emotional cues from humans and other dogs, and that it's not just a learned behavior.


And on the flip side of this, we humans love to ascribe enormous complexity to our own very simple behaviors. What is guilt? It is fear of being caught doing something that is considered wrong by our social group. For humans, guilt is also fear. It is a more complex emotion in us than it is in canines, just as it is a more complex emotion in adults than it is in toddlers. However, toddlers are capable of experiencing a rudementary form of guilt, and I believe dogs also experience guilt in the same way, as dogs have the emotional complexity of a human toddler.

Dogs are also the only non primate that we know of that understand that when a human points with a finger, they are directing attention to an object the finger is pointing at. This is very complex and surprising behavior once only considered a hallmark of the great apes.

It's wrong to think that all of our interpretations of animal emotion is simply anthropomorphism. We are wired to recognize emotion. When we as humans consistently recognize and interpret emotion from other animals, time and time again in the same way, across almost all races and cultures, there is probably more to it than anthropomorphism. It is our own instinct to interpret emotion that I believe will eventually prove that our interpretations of animal emotion are just that; actual interpretations. Remember, it's not emotion that sets us apart from other animals, it is our highly evolved logic that does.

a reply to: tikbalang

Exactly...and that's why in a multi-dog household even the "non-guilty" dogs show the same physical response. They are using appeasement body language...making themselves look smaller, and non-threatening.

a reply to: Cobra6000

All science is done is the negative aspect, philosophy or psychology works in the positive spectrum.

In science we have two feelings

I don't believe it's a complex system, or cues to respond in a certain way is a cultural behavior

I have a couple of very emotional big dogs. One of them is really good, doesn't listen well, but she gets scared when the other starts into destructive mode. If she comes running out of the room crying, I know Ghost is getting destructive. If it happens in front of me, she jumps on Ghost with toys to get him away from chewing on the carpet/floor/couch etc

When I catch him in the act, he just narrows his eyes and looks at me like "whatcha gonna do about it, lady". 🙄
I've had to train him by showing him that I'm disappointed in him.

I have one that behaves really well, but doesn't listen, and one that behaves badly, but listens well.

Dogs have many complex emotions. Ghost has taught me patience because I cannot show anger to him, or he shows anger back. He's also very gentle and loving.
Nyx is so loving, and very aggressively knocks me over at times to smother me in kisses with about 10 lbs pressure behind that tongue.....

Raised the same, two totally different dogs, yin and yang....💕🐾💕🐾
My Ghost and my Goddess

I can't say I see any fear in this Pic.
Guilty as charged.

a reply to: crappiekat

Lol. I have a sideways large coffee tin next to the toilet to hide the toilet paper.
I've never seen the guilt or fear from the toilet paper eater. Just the challenging glare.

I usually sigh, roll my eyes, and walk away...then he'll come over for cuddling and sucking up.

He a year and a half old, and not yet neutered, so too much testosterone still.

a reply to: snowspirit

Hahahaha.

I have a kitten like that too right now.

We have had many dogs over the years and have two now. All of them raised by the same people in the the same environment. They all have their own personalities. They all show many different reactiions to the same events. Dogs can also understand many words and key actions from them. If one chews something up and gets a "bad dog" the reaction is different then when there is no BD stated. This assumption of limitation to two emotions is complete bunk.

Cowling is not always fear.

It is also submission and acknowledgement, on a balanced dog.

It is what the beta dogs do to the alpha dogs in nature when communicating, since they don't talk.
General pack rules apply for their survival in nature. Like crapping in the den will attract predators to the pups.

I train Rottweilers, they don't fear people. When my dog runs across the floor with mud on his feet he knows it was wrong, he cowls as he runs back outside. He is acknowledging he broke the packs rules.

He wasn't yelled at, or beaten and trained from 8 weeks old. He is highly intelligent and can will associate yes or no with right and wrong. He genuinely feels ashamed because he enjoys being a perfect companion without breaking the pack rules.

This is why working dogs that need to do tasks are such a hard breed to own without the proper training. They get bored and earn all of the bite statistic numbers. People don't "own" them right. They don't put in the work.

I told my dog to come upstairs on the balcony the other day. He started cowling. I knew immediately that he knew we would be heading upstairs where he just pooped yesterday. He knew he broke the law.

Good topic

a reply to: tikbalang

I've had the privilege of sharing my home with various kinds of animals all my life. I can tell you that the simplest of them can express thoughts and emotions that are more complex than those of the average ATSer.

Dogs are cool.
Cats suck.
That's all I need to know.

Always thought it was fear