The RAF's Red Arrows are looking to trade in their BEA HAWK T1's !

So this has been in the news for a few months now but seen nothing on here about it and wondered what you guys think about it.

The defence secretary, Michael ­Fallon, said the internationally famous unit would continue for years to come. Fallon said: “The Red Arrows are going to be here to stay for a while yet. They are a key part of our defence engagement, as we call it, around the rest of the world, and I don’t think the public would let us lose the Red Arrows.” He made the announcement on Tuesday as the aerobatic team performed in a public display in China for the first time as part of a 60-day world tour aiming to promote “the best of British”. The display, on the opening day of Airshow China in Zhuhai, takes the number of countries the team has performed in since 1965 to 57. The Red Arrows fly BAE Systems Hawk T1 jets, from RAF Scampton, in ­Lincolnshire, where they have been based since 2001. Their planes can reach a top speed of just over 600mph and the team can fly as low as 30 metres (100ft) from the ground.

The possible replacement aircraft suggested to replace the T'1s are:

1)BEA Hawk t2
(essentially the same as a t1 but with a glass cockpit similar in layout to the Eurofighter.)
this is my bet and is favored by the current red arrows leader,

2) Eurofighter tranche 1
( the RAF has 12 in storage and preserved, however, more recently it has said in time of need these might be made available for uk air defense so maybe these are already earmarked)
have to admit these would look pretty damn cool! however, would go aginst tradition of using training aircraft

3 ) 'Shorts' Tucanu
( The Tucano T1 is a modded version of the Brazilian Embraer EMB-312 Tucano aircraft is built under license by Shorts of Belfast)
I for one would prefer they stuck to jets but I do see why these might make sense financially.

4 )alpha jet ( The Dassault/Dornier Alpha Jet is a light attack jet and advanced trainer aircraft co-manufactured by Dassault Aviation of France and Dornier Flugzeugwerke of Germany. Wikipedia)
I dont see this happening as the RAF don't field the alpha jet so this would go against tradition of using RAF aircraft

what do you think?
what would you propose?

Id love to have seen them use the harrier force imagine the extra dimension that would have added to displays, but i fear its far too late for them!

I'd like to see them in Vulcans


Hawk 2 is a good shout though, deffo the most likely one.

yeah I believe they will choose the hawk 2 .. Vulcans would be good lol imagine the noise! Or a diamond formation of 9 vulcans doing a loop .. that would be something!

Saying that I'd like to see 9 red Eurofighters

a reply to: SprocketUK

OMG yeah Vulcan's would be immense ! the synchro pair in vulcans would make my bum twitch!!!

Give me a good old fashioned Spitfire any day... Now that would be damned worth watching.

Or chipmunks? (erm, training craft yonks ago (I flew one back in the early 80s when I was an air cadet))

On a more serious note : The BEA Hawk is a nice one and easily manouverable and has already "earned its wings" so to speak (and lets keep em British old chap what what...)

Chocks away Biggles...

Warmest

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a reply to: ThePeaceMaker

eurofighters would be awesome see Red Arrow euro fighter

If they stick Pegasus engines in them they might be able to get Art Nalls to take them off their hands!

They spend a lot of time in Cyprus (or did) and when the Mrs was there as a school kid her gran who worked at the local RAF base said one of the things they did was watch what people did on the ground to see how entertaining they were as if theres no one looking up then its a dud.

originally posted by: urbanfox
a reply to: ThePeaceMaker

eurofighters would be awesome see Red Arrow euro fighter

I know we could never afford or justify the expense, but just think how totally, unbelievably, massively etc etc, f,.cking awesome that would be.

Typhoon would be good and very loud. However I cannot see that beinga n "economical" option.

Hawk T2 will be the choice as the Red Arrows will act as the PR for resale.

a reply to: urbanfox

You forgot to add Textron AirLand’s Scorpion

I thought the RAF had a contract for these to replace the Hawk as the training aircraft, so it makes sense it would transition to the Red Arrows replacement

FARNBOROUGH: Scorpion jet offered for UK training deal

a reply to: Discotech

fair point I'd agree.. but the MOD have said they're looking for a hawk t1 replacement within the next 1-2 years, the scorpion proposal is part of the ASDOT program to enter service in 2020 and initially drawing on RAF Hawks and Tranche 1 Eurofighter taking its likely entry just beyond that window.

I also think there will be a big push to keep it British so hawk t2 it seems is the likely choice

They'll almost certainly go with the Hawk IMO. There's going to be quite a bit of commonality between the two, so retraining will be kept to a minimum,and they should be able to use some of their existing spares on them.

Hmmmm...As I work on the remaining T1 and T1A's I hear and see a lot of what is going on in the Hawk world so can maybe add a few comments and insights.

Typhoon a none starter...cost!

Tucarno...possible but not the same impact as a jet and the fleet is getting on...still younger than the T1 mind you...and getting replaced with the T6 Texan which might be in with a shout if the RAF increase the numbers bought!

The Hawk T2 is a lot heavier than the T1 mainly due to lots of ballast being added in the rear fuserlarge to compensate for the increased weight of all the electronics in the extended nose etc. A T1 can run rings around a T2!!

They are also at this moment a bit of a hanger Queen...I think we have 28+ T2's at valley and last week I think there was only 8 on the line servicable for one reason or the other!!!

There are a lot of low FI T1's in storage at the moment which have been earmarked for future RED use and a lot of foreign air forces have surplus more modern hawks with adavanced cocpits etc which are up for sale which could be aquired for RED use.

The T1 has just had its life extended until 2030 at least and a host of MOD's are being implemented and rolled out...AHRS, CWS are two I know of coming bor already being implemented and a glass cockpit MOD is in the possible pipeline so do not be suprised if the replacement for the Red Arrows Hawk T1A is ....the Hawk T1B!!!

Hope this info helps!!

They'll stick with the Hawks. As others have said, great as it would be to see there's no way with the pressure on defense budgets at the moment they'd justify the cost of the Typhoon. IIRC they've not had a front line jet since they were the Black Arrows. They'll want to keep as close to what they have as possible so they don't need to choreograph display routines and retrain pilots and they'll want to stick with something already in the inventory for parts/maintenance commonality.

Hands up for Taranis.They would look nice in Red...Hehehehehehehehehehe