America's spies anonymously took down Michael Flynn. That is deeply worrying.

a reply to: matafuchs

And like I said we have no idea when the analysis of Flynn's conversations was completed and we have no idea when that analysis was provided to the Trump administration. The first time we hear that such an analysis exists is when Yates tells McGahn about its findings. At which point the President is immediately informed.

For all we know the analysis was not complete until the morning of the 26th.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Supposedly those were foreign.

What happened to Flynn was our own

Or the most obvious explanation is there are Waring factions within our intelligence community.

Playing wag the dog not to get caught.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: neo96
It doesn't matter whether or not people like Trump or not.
When government agencies are undermining the US GOVERNMENT.
THAT'S A PROBLEM.
A big one.

...and what was your response when it was reported that foreign intelligence services were meddling in the recent election, and that Trump himself was encouraging them to do so?

How did they "meddle" in our election? Hillary won the popular vote, did she not? That reporting you're referring to is FAKE NEWS. Trump's joke about Hillary's emails was just that.

a reply to: mobiusmale

Micheal Flynn took down Micheal Flynn. He disgraced himself, (a former 3 star General, no less. I guess the reasons he was fired from the Army are no longer a mystery...), lied about it, misled his boss, and America, may have committed traitorous acts. The media did nothing but report the actual actions of an unworthy Benedict Arnold. All Trump wants everyone to do is blame the media, instead of the true responsible party, Trump himself, (He was briefed weeks ago on Flynn's anti-American activities, but still kept Flynn employed - because Trump cannot ever admit to a mistake - it's ALWAYS someone else's fault, isn't it?). All of his cabinet picks are rejects and losers, like Trump himself, (birds of a feather, you know?). Conway's next. Then maybe Trump himself. Throw the trash out of our White House.

NSA checking out government officials instead of average citizens? Good. Which one are more likely to be to a danger to the country.

a reply to: neo96

Yeah, they were "foreign"...


They say that the only reason J. Edgar Hoover stayed in power at the FBI for so long is because he had dirt on every up & coming politician in the country. I'm not naive enough to believe the FBI stopped its tactics since then. There were factions in the FBI with a well known grudge against Clinton, so I don't doubt for a second that they played a part in those leaks and hacks.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254

What we do know is that on January 26 Yates talked to Don McGahn about the calls. McGahn then "immediately informed" (Spicer's words) the President. So Trump knew that Flynn was possibly compromised almost a month ago at the very latest. He chose to do nothing with this information.

And yet........

(February 14, 2017)
“He was not aware, as he is not back-briefed on every conversation that his national security team has, or other staffers. They were performing their duties, as other people were in terms of getting up to speed, conveying to counterparts and previous members of their team,” White House press secretary Sean Spicer said at a press conference Tuesday.

where are Spicer's previous comments ?

Hmmm.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
Does the intelligence community have too much power? Almost definitely. And I'll admit that it's troubling. At the same time though Trump was warned that Flynn was in a position that could lead to blackmail. So while the power of the intelligence community is troubling it is also troubling that one of the President's most important advisers was compromised by a foreign power. Not only that but it is also troubling that the President didn't care that Flynn was compromised. He was briefed on the content of the conversations back in January but he didn't ask for Flynn's resignation until he had no other choice due to public pressure.

Let's be fair, neither side of this incident can be considered the good guys. But at least it ultimately led to the removal of a weak link in the White House. Regardless of your politics I think that's a positive outcome. Where things go from here though remains to be seen.

At the same time, the proper channel for any whistleblower to go through is the intel committee in Congress. NOT to leak classified intel in a highly selective fashion to the press in a way designed to create a political assassination. The article author is correct. Those are police state tactics, and you and all of us should be very concerned.

As far as I knnow, the warrantless wire-tapping was never stopped. It is just a short step from taking out your political enemies to moving on private citizens who don't support your ideological goals. And they have that power and they've now shown themselves to be ethnically capable of it.

You or I or anyone else can be destroyed for mere political gain because once they start they won't stop if they aren't found and told this is unacceptable.

Make no mistake, to reiterate, this is NOT whistleblowing. There are channels and laws governing that, and there are members of both parties on every committee to guard against partisanship.

a reply to: xuenchen

And yet...

(February 14,2017)

Q Do you have any criticism of the merits of those conversations about sanctions before the Trump administration had been inaugurated?

MR. SPICER: So just to be clear, the acting Attorney General informed the White House Counsel that they wanted to give a “heads up” to us on some comments that may have seemed in conflict with what he had sent the Vice President out in particular. The White House Counsel informed the President immediately. The President asked him to conduct a review of whether there was a legal situation there. That was immediately determined that there wasn’t. That was what the President believed at the time, from what he had been told, and he was proved to be correct.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
Show me PROOF.
And not the word of leakers.

Third and final shot at it...were you as concerned about "undermining the US GOVERNMENT" through messing with it's electoral process when it appeared that the Russians were attacking Clinton's campaign, or were you one of those Trump supporters who welcomed their assistance for the sake of your cause?
Not that tough a question, and easy to verify.

a reply to: ketsuko

This is no different than when Deep Throat went to Woodward and Bernstein. Or when the New York Times released the Pentagon Papers. At least in hindsight most would agree that those were good things.

Nevermeind the fact that nothing he discussed was illegal.

a reply to: Deny Arrogance

This was a Witch hunt from the Rogue, Terrorist Intelligence Community and their Media collaborators. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ha it was already a police state when we had skatey eight investigations into a flipping computer and a public metaphoric pillorying of a presidential candidate.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: ketsuko

This is no different than when Deep Throat went to Woodward and Bernstein. Or when the New York Times released the Pentagon Papers. At least in hindsight most would agree that those were good things.

After the last eight years of mainstream lies.

Even Watergate is suspect.

originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
Nevermeind the fact that nothing he discussed was illegal.

Still won't stop his character assassination.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
Ha it was already a police state when we had skatey eight investigations into a flipping computer and a public metaphoric pillorying of a presidential candidate.

It became a police state when the Patriot Act went through.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: ketsuko

This is no different than when Deep Throat went to Woodward and Bernstein. Or when the New York Times released the Pentagon Papers. At least in hindsight most would agree that those were good things.

Do they? Or do most believe it because the press wants us to think so? After all, it was that incident that gave the press the self-appointed role it now enjoys and look how much it has takenb to abusing it.

There are no checks an dbalances on the press because they enjoy constitutional protections, and there are very, very good reasons for that, but by allowing Deep Throat to hide under the press's skirt, we created this mess where now anyone in the bureaucracy which is an arm of government accountable to no one can get away with leaking selective information to target political opponents and the press can shield them under souce protection.

In essence this is a problem with no accountability. THey can say and leak whatever they want in whatever fashion and create an impression of whatever impropriety they desire. Even if the truth comes out (remember, we haven't actually seen a real transcript of the conversation itself) the first things said are all that will be remembered. And they only have to be half-truths with rumor and innuendo to do the desired job.

originally posted by: Ohanka

originally posted by: Sillyolme
Ha it was already a police state when we had skatey eight investigations into a flipping computer and a public metaphoric pillorying of a presidential candidate.

It became a police state when the Patriot Act went through.

The FISA ACT created under the Carter administration.

I don't know why people leave that little factoid out.

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 ("FISA" Pub.L. 95–511, 92 Stat. 1783, 50 U.S.C. ch. 36) is a United States federal law which prescribes procedures for the physical and electronic surveillance and collection of "foreign intelligence information" between "foreign powers" and "agents of foreign powers" (which may include American citizens and permanent residents suspected of espionage or terrorism).[1] It has been repeatedly amended since the September 11 attacks.

en.wikipedia.org...

1978.

Then we got the Patriot Act which wasn't that much to begin with since the Ominbus Counter Terrorism Act under CLinton did the same thing more or less.

en.wikipedia.org...

And the final step in the surveillance state.

The ACA datahub.

www.usatoday.com...

a reply to: odzeandennz

I said the same thing. Illegally obtained information that was used against his fiercest opponent and only rival was ok.
They cheered every release because it helped trump. Cries from the left that the information was illegally obtained were met with laughter and scorn.

Now illegally obtained info well it's just illegal and should be squelched.

Know what this is?

Karma.

Because the emails that they cheered were hacked by the Russians and now we have the current investigation into trumps administration.
Truly what goes around comes around.

What's that echo from the debate? " I'm gonna hire a special independent prosecutor to investigate Hillary Clinton."
And oh look they're going to peruse an independent investigation into the trump/ Russia ties.