How will you handle friends that did not prepare?

a reply to: orionthehunter

Don't tell anyone. It's a grave if you do.

a reply to: orionthehunter

All my friends know I "prep", and I've never made a secret of it.

They certainly know that I have a store of knowledge that will enable me to survive long term. They also know that they will be more than welcome.

Long term, I have no doubts that I, and my family/friends will survive. I was brought up knowing how to stay warm, fed, and dry...and what I don't know, many of my immediate circle do know.

If they have a useful skill, and/or the right attitude, even strangers will become friends.

The attitude of everyone is an enemy may be the "safe" attitude, but it's also the attitude that got us into the situation to begin with in all likelihood, and will certainly prevent any sort of rebuilding.

So, yes, everyone will get a fair hearing. ...and, no, not everyone will get into the group, but some certainly will.

Make sure you ask them 100 questions about where they have tried to get food from already and that it really is their last resort coming to you, stress again and again that you don't have much and are also in trouble. Make them wait and tell them again how much this is costing you to give them some of the little you have. Make them wait an hour or two then give them a pre-prepared pack of rice and beans that will be enough to feed 4 people and tell them they will have to go and cook it themselves and find other food after that as you don't have enough for yourself and family either.

Of course for that to work you will have to loose weight and make it look like you were all struggling too. That should only benecessary for the first 6 months till all the ones who didnt prep die off or sell their souls to the government.

25 Then Joseph said to Pharaoh, “The dreams of Pharaoh are one and the same. 29 Seven years of great abundance are coming throughout the land of Egypt, 30 but seven years of famine will follow them. Then all the abundance in Egypt will be forgotten, and the famine will ravage the land. 31 The abundance in the land will not be remembered, because the famine that follows it will be so severe. 34 Let Pharaoh appoint commissioners over the land to take a fifth of the harvest of Egypt during the seven years of abundance.This food should be held in reserve for the country, to be used during the seven years of famine that will come upon Egypt, so that the country may not be ruined by the famine.”

Genesis 47:18 When that year was over, they came to him the following year and said, “We cannot hide from our lord the fact that since our money is gone and our livestock belongs to you, there is nothing left for our lord except our bodies and our land. 19 Why should we perish before your eyes—we and our land as well? Buy us and our land in exchange for food, and we with our land will be in bondage to Pharaoh. Give us seed so that we may live and not die, and that the land may not become desolate.”

20 So Joseph bought all the land in Egypt for Pharaoh. The Egyptians, one and all, sold their fields, because the famine was too severe for them. The land became Pharaoh’s, 21 and Joseph reduced the people to servitude, from one end of Egypt to the other.

Sorry, but any apocalyptic scenario such as "the road" or "the walking dead" or even "the book of Eli" is not something I want to be part of. Really shows how cruel humanity can be in a bad situation.

I hope I'm underneath the warhead (assuming that's how it ends).

a reply to: Irishhaf

Rule one:

Be a socialist. Everyone who needs, gets an equal share of whats available. No exceptions.

Rule two:

Work hard. Fail to do this means less resources become available to you, while preventing your making the most of them.

Rule three:

Utilise human resources wisely. Everyone needs to eat, needs shelter and heat, and so everyone needs to work toward those goals, and everyone, even the littlest of your party, will be able to contribute something. Even if all it amounts to is collecting firewood, or gathering berries, there is always something they could be doing to move things foward.

Rule four:

No compromise. No situation which is an either or situation will be accepted. There will be no, either we get rid of some members, or we all starve, scenarios. There is always a way to conquer, and if not, its worth remembering that dying well, having never compromised someone elses safety in favour of your own, is a better thing by far than having a long life, earned by bitter compromise. If you die by the hand of your own compassion, you died well.

originally posted by: gription
One at a time of course. You cannot plan for the end of the world., Are you that arrogant?

I am not planning for the end of the world, but an economic collapse is certainly a possibility.

As an example Argentina went from a fairly prosperous country to bankrupt and hyper inflation fairly suddenly.

I have been stuck in the past for a week with limited water and power after a serious Ice storm.

Things can happen that disrupt civilization as we know it quite severely that have nothing to do with the end of the world.

What is it that has happened and why do you think you will have survived (or would want to) whatever the event was?

As long as they are willing to work for their keep, they are welcome.

Fixing things, guarding, garden help, foraging, hunting, scavenging, cooking, cleaning, so many things to be done for the good of all.

I can even convert horse stalls to rooms for them, if need be. So that's 10 (12'x12') rooms, right there.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Irishhaf

Rule one:
Be a socialist. Everyone who needs, gets an equal share of whats available. No exceptions.

Sounds good so we can all starve and die as a collective unit.
I think you misunderstand us Americans.
We like relying on ourselves. Will put my faith in myself far sooner than some government entity.
Katrina comes to mind here and when it comes to drinking raw sewage to water I purify myself I will take the latter any day.

a reply to: JAY1980

I am not suggesting that you rely on your government when the crap hits the fan. I am suggesting that you all learn to rely on one another. That is not at all the same thing.

It is impossible to prepare for the unknown...
All you have prepared may well be lost...
All you have prepared may be taken from you by force...
Your escape plan or safe space may be compromised...
The unknown is comprised of too many variables...

What Im saying is those who are able to think on their feet and react to the situation at hand may fair far better than those whos plans fail them...

Those who have their wits and health would be best prepared in my opinion... Having a friend who could offer nothing but friendship and the willingness to co operate with you just may make for the very best preparedness...

It would also be safe to asume those you thought were friends whom knew of your preparations might very well end up being your worst enemy...

So be prepared to be unprepared...

a reply to: 5StarOracle

Only too true.

That's why the best prep is to be mentally prepped. All the stuff in the world does no good if you don't know how to use it, or, as you say, do without it...

The old ways are the best. Resort to a hierarchy for the sake of clarity.

Socially, the core is a band of equals, heads of families, between 5 and a dozen adults in fighting shape. Plus their spouses, children, and hangers-on. They constructed a hardened redoubt, where they can "close the gates after dark" and are safe from gunfire and arson attacks. It's where the bulk of the food and ammo are stored.

Beyond the wall, is an "outer ring," both socially and geographically.

Individuals and families can join the group and provide labor and lookouts, in exchange for food. A few of the first arrivals are the outer leaders. You give them some rabbits, or maybe chickens to raise. You also provide them with seed, and a working vehicle or motorized garden-tiller or two, plus fuel to plow with, and haul hay and firewood. They sleep outside the stronghold, but "inside the fence."

As soon as you can get a distillery up and running, you get some engines converted to alcohol fuel. You control that fuel, and control the folks living beyond the stronghold's walls.

When you get reliable power generation, you provide CCTV and tripwire security beyond their hurricane fence perimeter.

Survivors would go back to being generalists--what most humans were until about 150 years ago in European culture (and still are in much of the world).

You have an inner core of high status equals. Call them "knights of the round table" or the "Band of Brothers," "patricians", "founding families", "free-holders", "senators" or whatever. They actively train for mobile combat. They have a democracy within their own ranks, and their leader is chosen from among them, even if he wields dictatorial powers. They may eventually own individual plots of land, for which they employee the lower class people to work on.

Around this, you have the peripheral males and their families. These are the ones who fight when an all-out battle rages; They are infantry, the "plebes" or "the golden horde". They are basically paid in food; which they will eat and then need to earn again tomorrow. They elect their own officers, (praetors, tribunes, frank-men, reeves, "middle class" etc.) who represent their interests to high-status inner circle. This is the bulk of the populace. They owe "days of labor" for their right to grain stores (which they supplement with their own meat).

Out beyond the high fence (literally "beyond the pale"), you have the lowest rank of society. They may come and work for a season, maybe to feed themselves through the winter. Many of them may drift away and join other groups eventually--that's ok. They work as day laborers; and other than a dry bed and a day's food, they don't get much or give much. These are the ones hired by the middle circle to actually grow the crops and chop the wood and haul the water. Call them "proles" or "the people of the land" or "serviam".

Everyone else beyond the low-fence perimeter is outside the community jurisdiction: literally "out law".

It's pretty much how every society begins; whether it's Norse colonists in Vinland, or Greek colonists in Sicily, or Latins colonizing the Etruscan plain. Or Eskimo, or Hmong or Ainu or Han. Pretty much every culture that persisted had its Springtime shaped along these lines.

It isn't pretty; it isn't democratic beyond the inner elite. But it works. for generations, if need be. And, it usually allows more social mobility (into and between the concentric rings) than post-modern technological society does.

a reply to: redempsh

You have an inner core of high status equals. Call them "knights of the round table" or the "Band of Brothers," "patricians", "founding families", "free-holders", "senators" or whatever. They actively train for mobile combat. They have a democracy within their own ranks, and their leader is chosen from among them, even if he wields dictatorial powers. They may eventually own individual plots of land, for which they employee the lower class people to work on.

This post made the movie "The Giver", come to mind.

You'd be interested to know who is still your " friend " when faced with death or violence to survive.

Think about what most " friends " do already and we don't even have much to survive from, many are only people's friends to " get something " out of it.

If you have a true friend, I envy you as they are not as plentiful as one might think, sadly.

If I knew the " friend " I'd of course help out if I could, If I didn't know them, they wouldn't know where to find me anyways so it wouldn't matter.

I don't plan on staying where I am currently if things go bad, there are people around me, I'm not stupid, I'm going where people are not.

There is a reason it's good to be cautious.

a reply to: Irishhaf

with " corpse handling gauntlets " ?