Will the europeans ever be powerful?

Originally posted by PBscientist

Originally posted by st3ve_o
britain doesn't use american equipment, i can probably name the trident, and the f-35 (which is a joint project anyway)

- theres nothing else i can think of though from the top of my head.

infact if you go back throughtout the years id be willing to bet americans have used mostly british equipment and british inventions, (harrier, radar, V/STOL) just to name a couple.

Britain uses American Transport planes (ie. C-130), the chinook, the Apache longbow and probably other systems. A lot of their weaponry comes from Germany as well, with things happening like Heckler and Koch having to fix the l-85 (which has a magnificent sight that makes it almost worthwhile).

Yeah, will have to agree with you there. Don't forget the MLRS (US), Patriot (US, although it is quite poo), Javelin (US) and M777A1 Howitzer (US). There is probably more as well if you get into the nitty gritty about what components each system in the Armed Forces are made up of.

Although, on the flipside, the US uses alot of European kit , although, they don't like to admit it! The M1 is a prime example. The Gun is German, the armour and sights were orginally British designed etc etc....

Interesting side note, if anyone is interested. The engine of the Chally tank is the same engine as used by the Intercity trains here in the UK...

Strategically, quite a good idea. If we suddenly need a load of new tanks, we have the engines sitting there and workshops tooled up correctly to make more... Anyway, pointless fact lesson over...

I still find it funny how so many Casualties are caused by Friendly Fire by USA

edit.

[edit on 3-9-2006 by Mdv2]

Well...news break, to the fellow european "weaklings", French and German troops are going to be the ones to be deployed in Lebanon (along with already present UNIFIL forces). So much for our weakness, since it will be us europeans cleaning up the mess left by...some country I won't name because I could get insta-flamed

Parental Advisory Pun intended for Zibi/JimmyCarterIsNotSmarter

I hear no Polish forces will be deployed...

edit

My apologies again, wrong topic.

[edit on 8-9-2006 by Mdv2]

mdv2 what are you doing man??

Wow, this thread is so long that as a newbie I can’t be bothered to read all of it, so I’ll reply just to the most recent posts.

The Polish and German militaries suck. They are conscript militaries, meaning they’re not able to win wars.

The Polish air force has less aircraft than the French navy, never mind the FAF.

There are those that say “France always surrenders”, but their opinion is irrelevant, as are Poland and Germany. France is the continent’s #1 power. That is a FACT.

Here is how Poland could be overrun by the French military:

WEEK ONE OF WAR:

The FAF destroys every airforce base, military vehicles factory, ammo factory, radar and communications center in Poland.

Poland now cannot produce any more military vehicles (e.g. tanks), and it’s military cannot wage an air war (not that it’d matter though) and is cut off from ammo.

WEEK TWO:

The French military kills every large and moderately sized grouping of Polish soldiers, again from the air.

The Polish military now realizes that if they will fight, they are going to die trying.

Remember: The French army isn’t involved in the war yet.

WEEK THREE:

The French Army invades Poland. French Leclerc tanks destroy the Polish T-72 and Leopard 2 tanks, as it has been proven in REAL COMBAT that T-72s don’t stand a chance against the faster, better armoured Leclercs. The invading military begins occupying Poland. French Leclerc tanks backed by Tiger helos slaughter anyone trying to fight.

WEEK FOUR:

Almost all of Poland is occupied. Sparadic fighting still occurs.

WEEK FIVE:

All of Polish territory is occupied by the French military.

An invasion of Germany would be conducted in the same way, and would successfully end after 5 weeks too.

IN SHORT:

Neither Poland nor Germany stand a chance against France. France has MUCH better aircraft and tanks. France has MUCH better IFVs. France has nukes, while Poland and Germany do not (actually few countries in the world do). The French military simply outperforms even the combined militaries of Poland and Germany in terms of everything, and has many vehicle types that Poland and Germany don’t have, like aircraft carriers.

Or to say it this way: The French navy has several times more aircraft than all of Poland. The FAF has several times the number of aircraft of the FN. All of these aircraft are better than any plane Poland or Germany uses.

AIR WAR WON

The French navy has an ACBG that could sink a navy several times bigger than the Polish navy. That is to say nothing about the 6 SSNs in its arsenal.

SEA WAR WON

The French Army uses two vehicle types that Poland (nor Germany) cannot destroy. The first is the Leclerc tank, which uses depleted uranium armour and ammo. During the NATO-Serbia war, the T-72 (the Polish MBT) has proven itself to be INFERIOR to the Leclerc. The rounds it fires cannot penetrate the depleted uranium armour of the Leclerc, while the Leclerc fires depleted uranium shells that easily pierce the armour of the T-72.

The second is the Tiger helo. This helo will cause havoc on vehicles and infantry. The missiles it uses have been proven in real combat to be deadly to tanks. That is to say nothing of its machinegun that fires 750 rpm.

GROUND WAR WON

GAME OVER (well, war is not a game). FRANCE WINS, POLAND LOSES.

Lonestar24 – I don’t think Germany will remain relevant in the 21st century. France will though. The French GDP and GDP per capita is already comparable, and the French economy is growing faster than yours. Link: www.cia.gov... France will overtake you in a few years.

The idea that Poland will be a European power is preposterous. No country, 18% of the population of which is unemployed, is ever going to be a power.

Vagabond – say what you want to say, but basic rules apply to everyone. No country whose economy is marked by EIGHTEEN PERCENT UNEMPLOYMENT is EVER going to be a world power. Neither is Germany going to be. France? I don’t think so (I can be wrong though) – the unemployment is 9% and the government wants to downsize the FAF.

BTW: why are people talking about only 4 countries? There are 40 countries on the continent.

Heheh...well, see, the Poland theorist was just Zibi...and that's it, nobody else vouches for Poland.

Though your theory is funny (at best) to read, France is not going through Germany to attack Poland, or has any problem with Poland. (You do remember where Poland is, don't you?)

France, as many developed countries in Europe, have two huge problems...first, the newborn ratio is not replacing the death ratio, and this has to be fixed FAST, or else Europe will truly loose it's status.
Second, the inmigration flux is HUGE, specially muslims. This, I'm sorry to say, I have to vouch against, for they are unruly, make "marchs", complain about things they have no right to...and so on.

These two problems must be solved fast, in order for Europe to keep it's current status.
Oh, btw, the reason only 4 countries are discussed here, it's because they are the 4 largest players in Europe, and it would be irrelevant to discuss the other countries who do not weight as heavily politically and economically speaking.

The Polish and German militaries suck. They are conscript militaries, meaning they’re not able to win wars.



Where the hell is this coming from??!! What's with the French always bashing on Poland? Weren't the French-US-UK-Polish like best friends during WW2? and btw, u think that the French government even wants to invade any1 right now, especially not Poland.

French are just PO'd cuz Poland moved up to #2 ally of US, and the good ol Brits are still #1 ally

and France is the most powerful country on continent? what bum told u that? its definitely the British, and then its Germany, and then France.

and if a war ever DOES happen between France and Poland, u think the US,UK, and Germans are just gonnna stand by and watch. HELL NO! they will definitely join in the fight. Germany prolly will go to France-very good allies now a days. but UK and US will be on Poland's side due to their help in Iraq and Afghanistan-don't forget its a Polak that runs the coalition forces in Afghanistan.

where was the so called most powerful country in Eruope? complaining about the US, UK, Polish, and all others who were trying to free Iraq of Saddam.

and if France does invade Poland, say goodbye to ur leaders. we will cut away all military officers and leaders of government. how? Formoza, GROM, and SPK 1st battallion.

never heard of em? thats the point of a Covert Ops group. the US had plenty of them too. the one's that everyone knows about-SEALS, DeltaForce, Green Berets, etc.

as for the US and UK- love u guys as bros not that other way
France- i have nothing against France, or its people, but just bashing on Poland and Germany, and pretty much everyone in Europe, u better hope ur part of the minority in France, cuz if most of france is that cocky, ur in for a surprise


Poland was given the most war funds from the US for all their help in Iraq, then was Israel, and then i believe UK

i am a Polish/American living in the US btw. only way the country could get better is if we brought the Polish girls over......

[edit on 12-1-2007 by CrazyPolak]

why does zibi keep coming back bringing old threads up

is there anyway in banning is IP?

Steve,

The oracle has finally made it to the US! I wonder how he's got in. Probably as an illegal immigrant from the southern US border.

He's the honor to become the first person on my ignore list.

Zibi the multi-alias aka:
Jimmycarterisnotsmarter; Number23; CrazyPolanski.

A lot of their weaponry comes from Germany as well, with things happening like Heckler and Koch having to fix the l-85 (which has a magnificent sight that makes it almost worthwhile).

Except for the fact that at the time Heckler and Koch was owned by Royal Ordinance (itself a part of british aerospace). H and K was later reformed as an independant company

Yeah, will have to agree with you there. Don't forget the MLRS (US), Patriot (US, although it is quite poo), Javelin (US) and M777A1 Howitzer (US).

Patriot is not in service with british forces and never has been. And the M777 was designed by bae systems land systems (a british company). It was to be built by their partner United Defense but BAE bought them so now it is being fully designed and constructed by BAE

Originally posted by Mdv2
Steve,

The oracle has finally made it to the US! I wonder how he's got in. Probably as an illegal immigrant from the southern US border.

He's the honor to become the first person on my ignore list.

Zibi the multi-alias aka:
Jimmycarterisnotsmarter; Number23; CrazyPolanski.

hes not even from the US man, every name he posts under he pretends hes from blahblah land,

his original name 'zibi' if i can remember right had pictures of the harrier and tyhpoon etc, "saying he was gonna move to the UK etc" but didn't have one good word for the brits (infact he never as except now)

all his names though have nothing but praise for 'poland' ...i didn't even need to see that this time though, you can tell who it is by his typing style.

[edit on 13-1-2007 by st3ve_o]

Originally posted by st3ve_o

Originally posted by Mdv2
Steve,

The oracle has finally made it to the US! I wonder how he's got in. Probably as an illegal immigrant from the southern US border.

He's the honor to become the first person on my ignore list.

Zibi the multi-alias aka:
Jimmycarterisnotsmarter; Number23; CrazyPolanski.

hes not even from the US man, every name he posts under he pretends hes from blahblah land,

his original name 'zibi' if i can remember right had pictures of the harrier and tyhpoon etc, "saying he was gonna move to the UK etc" but didn't have one good word for the brits (infact he never as except now)

all his names though have nothing but praise for 'poland'

...i didn't even need to see that this time though, you can tell who it is by his typing style.

[edit on 13-1-2007 by st3ve_o]

lol....u talking bout me? i'm not this ZIBI dude if thats what u think. i'm new to the forums seriously though....who was Zibi?

haha, i can see why u think i am Zibi. CrazyPolanksi was his old name....hmmm kinda close to mine.

hey man, thats not cool, people are gonna think i'm some really annoying guy cuz this ZiBi

I dont think your name was brought up crazypolak.

I highly disagree that the german military is incapable as well. To whom ever said so.

oh alright, i just thought that they maybe assumed i was this "Zibi" cuz my name includes "Poland" and i mentioned the British

thanks for clearing that up for me

I highly disagree that the German military is more capable than the French.
The French are most definitely right up there with the British if not ahead.
No way around that..
And I also think that there is absolutely no reason for the French to invade Poland

Originally posted by Daedalus3
I highly disagree that the German military is more capable than the French.
The French are most definitely right up there with the British if not ahead.
No way around that..
And I also think that there is absolutely no reason for the French to invade Poland

Depends on what you mean by ahead, but yes the french are definatly on par with the UK...IMO europes hope of a strong independant defence depends france, italy, spain and germany. The UK is starting to look more and more like a lost cause.