Will the europeans ever be powerful?

Originally posted by st3ve_o
actaully dude forget it, because you know NOTHING about britain,

I never said that I'm knowledgeable about Great Britain.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
your polish or german arn't you if i remember right

I'm Polish, but I want to emigrate to Great Britain next year.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
either way (pictures or not) you don't like the UK much by reading other discusions you've indulged in the past.

On the contrary, I am pro-British and I hate France.

[edit on 10-5-2006 by Zibi]

[edit on 10-5-2006 by Zibi]

St3ve_o, I've been getting regular U2U's from Zibi as well, informing me of how wrong I am and how much he knows about everything. Honestly, I get less spam about Vigra or penile enlargements than I do mails from him!

As for his arguments, they seem disjointed and ill-informed at best, to downright offensive and ignorant at worst. Hence I stopped posting for fear of giving myself an anuerysim or something....but I can;t keep myself away...something about illogical reasoning and humerous lack of knowledge keeps pulling me back....

Originally posted by Zibi

Originally posted by st3ve_o
europe has always been powerful all the way through human history!!

you only have to go back to 60/70 years ago aswell:-

Who was powerful? France?

"yep, the very same country you copied the constitution from and helped you become a country...LOL LOL LOL"

Originally posted by Zibi

Germany? They lost two world wars against the US.

"both wars the US entered late and never faced damage to its soil, they just waited to see when would they would make the most profit out of it and THEN they entered war...and anyway, the germans would have beat the...out of you if it hadn't been for a certain incompetent leader, better trained, armed, and better equipment, by far, hell, they applied the jet, began research on nuclear weapons..and the list goes on...respect them
The US knew they were going to be attacked yet they sacrificed civs and troops on both wars just to have an excuse to enter a war they wanted to be in anyway"

Originally posted by Zibi
Great Britain? It was powerful - until Blair became the British PM.

"Great Britain is diminished, yet quite powerful, they troops and navy quite better trained than the US, and this is temporary, they will be deploying a much better destroyer than any you currently posess, and hopefully in the future it will rebuild its forces to is former grandeur..."

Originally posted by st3ve_o
things will change though, europe is re-built, europe is on its feet again - and most importantly EUROPE IS UNITED (through the EU), which was created in the 1950's after the WW2, to STOP europe fighting with each other again.

The reason for why European nations didn't fight against each other after WWII was NATO, not the EU.

"Yes and NATO was mainly made of...yes European nations...oops! If any war had ocurred...yes again...it would have been in Europe...so it was after all the EUROPEANS the ones that faced the bigger threat, once again the US sitting in the background comfortably, just having bases in europe, once again, none of its landmass would be threatened by conventional forces, large sea battles would be in the atlantic just nearby guess who...YEP, Europe, while the US could comfortably spend on large missiles and subs and such without worrying to be invaded...familiar isn't it?"

Originally posted by st3ve_o
is china a threat to america (short-term)? - the american economy is fastly declining

This is not true. The American economy is growing at the pace of 3.5%. Proof: www.cia.gov...

"actually...it is true after all, american debt...well you know that story, and guess what, if you had any economy class at all before, you'd know that debt takes a toll in growth, and when there is a toll in growth large enough is called RECESSION, I'm sure you've read about that before, so america is growing but rather SLOWLY, and no, by no means the CIA factbook is a reliable source more than a soviet manual in the cold war, totally and absolutely biased

And yes, China IS a threat for america both long and short term, short term in economy, with many of America's factories moving to China, jobs lost in the US, which rises the US companies competitiveness, but loses many US jobs in the way, making the Us growth even slower by year..."

Originally posted by Zibi
good day

[edit on 10-5-2006 by Zibi]

[Mod Edit: tags corrected - Jak]

[edit on 17/7/06 by JAK]

^^^^^Your preceding post was simply a smiley face.

Originally posted by stumason
St3ve_o, I've been getting regular U2U's from Zibi as well, informing me of how wrong I am and how much he knows about everything. Honestly, I get less spam about Vigra or penile enlargements than I do mails from him!

As for his arguments, they seem disjointed and ill-informed at best, to downright offensive and ignorant at worst.

- I'm looking forward to the change in tone if he moves here and when he inevitably encounters the British version of his/her right-wing xenophobia, perhaps he/she imagines being a Polish immigrant will spare him/her from the kind of irrational hostility he is happy to project at others?

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- I'm looking forward to the change in tone if he moves here and when he inevitably encounters the British version of his/her right-wing xenophobia, perhaps he/she imagines being a Polish immigrant will spare him/her from the kind of irrational hostility he is happy to project at others?

Indeed, Sminkey! I think he/she/it will get a short, sharp shock at just what it is like to be on the receiving end of some of the purile stuff that he/she/it has posted here, in real life too!

And being Polish is by no means going to get him off the hook. I know, where I live in Reading, there is a large Polish community, but they are not entirely welcomed by everyone to be honest.

The Evening Post here even described them as the "new Asians", due to the numbers involved and the fact that dozens of "Polish" shops have cropped up selling weird pickles and funny tasting beer (funny this, as it usually Asian owned shops cashing in on the Polish).

Many of them can be found hanging out on the streets, drinking at midday and unemployed, unable to speak a word of english. If they do work, it is cleaning toilets or picking fruit.

A far cry from the land of milk and honey they thought it was going to be, especially seeing as they are denied benefits unless they can find work.

We'll see if his opinion changes if he ever arrives.....

I agree with Lonestar24 that the German navy is a joke. TBH, the entire German military is a joke. But so is the French military.

The French military at least has the following advantage over the German Armed Forces: it is a professional military, while the German military is made up of conscripts.

OK, so the CIA Factbook is using estimates for 2005, presumably based on 2001 ranking if the URL is describing content. This is hardly FACTUAL and not really somthing to be relied upon as abosolute poof to prove your points.

The URL doesnt describe content.

Another proof that the US economy is the strongest in the world: news.bbc.co.uk...

[edit on 30-5-2006 by Zibi]

Ah Zibi, welcome back!

I already wondered where you had been.

So you think the German and French armies are jokes. What made you draw this conclusion if I may be so free to ask?

And what about the Polish army, does Poland even have an army?


[edit on 30-5-2006 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by Mdv2
So you think the German and French armies are jokies. What made you draw this conclusion if I may be so free to ask?

Because the German military is made up of conscripts. And if a military is made up of conscripts, it's crappy, no matter what equipment it uses and whether if it has nukes or not. To win a war, you need a professional military, not a military made up of conscripts.

Originally posted by Mdv2
And what about the Polish army, does Poland even have an army?

Yes. Not only it has a military, but it also has won all of the wars it has fought, except for the war against Germany in 1157 and the 5 national insurrections. It is made up of conscripts, but in Poland, military service will be abolished.

Originally posted by Zibi

Because the German military is made up of conscripts. And if a military is made up of conscripts, it's crappy, no matter what equipment it uses and whether if it has nukes or not. To win a war, you need a professional military, not a military made up of conscripts.

Eh? The German army made up of conscripts? I'd rather think to see such a scene in Poland, not in Germany nowadays. They have a very well equiped and trained professional army.

Originally posted by Mdv2
And what about the Polish army, does Poland even have an army?

Yes. Not only it has a military, but it also has won all of the wars it has fought, except for the war against Germany in 1157 and the 5 national insurrections. It is made up of conscripts, but in Poland, military service will be abolished.

The war against Germany in 1157? I assume you mean the war in 1939, as Germany did not yet exist in 1157.

[edit on 30-5-2006 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by Mdv2
Eh? The German army made up of consripts? I'd rather think to see such scenes in Poland, not in Germany nowadays. They have a very well equiped and trained professional army.

No, they don't. Proof: www.answers.com...

Originally posted by Mdv2
The war against Germany in 1157? I assume you mean the war in 1939, as Germany did not yet exist in 1157.

No, I don't mean the war in 1939, I meant the war in 1157, which Poland fought against the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation. That country cannot be called Germany, but it was run by a Swab.

[edit on 30-5-2006 by Zibi]

Originally posted by Zibi
I agree with Lonestar24 that the German navy is a joke. TBH, the entire German military is a joke. But so is the French military.

So? Do you have anything to back up your statement? Nope, purely subjective. And its not even a subjective view of the German or French military, it´s your negative attitude against France and Germany as a whole which you have repeatedly stated before, and which you now project upon the armed forces as well.

You know, there are some people here where one could stop and think for a minute if they made the same claims as you... ch1466, Westpoint, Stumason, a crapload of others. The difference is that these argue from somewhere in the realms of reality... unlike you.

*sings* TWENTYFIVE CAAARRIERS FOOOR THE CROOOWN AAAND EMPIIIRE...

Now, the reality is this: When you dig through all the emotional crap that has been written and said following the Iraq debate, and get to the bottom of things, you can see that all the armed forces of the major nations in Europe are sufficient to ensure their national security, and to enforce their national policy abroad which has been proven time and again. You can equally see that not even the USA denies the distinct qualities that some of the European Nations have - which resulted in decades of alliance, cross-training, maneuvers, wargames and defence product exports from Europe to the USA - look up NATO Tiger Meet - which is specifically true for Germany seeing the amount of cooperation that has taken place between the two nations during the whole Cold War and even now. Theres also a small insignificant institution called NATO which demands and ensures a certain defense capability of it´s members.

Another thing would be the EU Battlegroups whose largest contributors are Germany and France (participation in 4 and 3 Battlegroups, respectively). Well, I guess they only let the joky forces of Germany and France partake because these are so funny and good for the morale of the "real" European forces, hu?

The reality is also that both the French and German military most probably could defend their nations against ANY enemy short of Russia, China and the USA - which in my humble opinion is at least some indication that they arent completely worthless.

The French military at least has the following advantage over the German Armed Forces: it is a professional military, while the German military is made up of conscripts.

Hmmm...

Status

Die Bundeswehr umfasst 187.184 Berufs- und Zeitsoldaten, 37.000 Grundwehrdienstleistende und 24.983 freiwillig länger Wehrdienstleistende.

Bundeswehr website (in German)

Translation: Of 250.000 men and women in service, 37.000 (and falling) men are conscripts. Thats less than 15%. (As comparison, 10 years ago in 1996 a total of 169.730 conscripts served - though the Bundeswehr was also larger back then). But thank you for having such confidence in the german conscripts, I´m sure they´d appreciate how highly you rank them in the structure of the Bundeswehr!

BTW, the german conscript system also has the advantage that over 2 million men in the last 15 years alone have undergone military training and are able reservists... not bad if war would break out tomorrow.

Originally posted by Zibi
...Because the German military is made up of conscripts. And if a military is made up of conscripts, it's crappy, no matter what equipment it uses and whether if it has nukes or not. To win a war, you need a professional military, not a military made up of conscripts. ....

Hmmm... do the words "Draft" and "WW2" ring any bells? Or "Draft" and "Great War"? Or "Draft" and "Korea"? etc. etc. pp. ..., no need to go on. All the wars up to Vietnam were fought at least to a part by conscripted personnel.

...
Another proof that the US economy is the strongest in the world: news.bbc.co.uk... ...

Hmm, I wasnt aware that ANYONE on the past 28 pages (which amounts to 550+ posts) would ever have doubted the momentary economic supremacy of the USA.

Funnily enough, your link doesnt even say the US economy is the strongest in the world... it says that the USA is the strongest in the G8. Of course this implicately is the same, but still your link is no proof for your claim

Apart from all the above, what has all this to do with the thread subject?

[edit on 30/5/2006 by Lonestar24]

Another proof that the American economy is the strongest economy in the world: www.whitehouse.gov...

woahhh @ zibi's link, i haven't read it all but just had a quick flick through and found this (10th paragraph):-

"We are the nation that saved liberty in Europe", and liberated death camps, and helped raise up democracies, and faced down an evil empire".

how arrogrant and ignorant is that (we are the nation that saved europe)? jesus i can see why MANY people hate america!!

don't they forget it was a world war (which means THE WORLD IS AT WAR)!! not just AMERICA vs the world

don't they forget britain was fighting large parts of the war by itself? do they forget britain wasn't invaded, do they forget the battle of britain/arnhem/normady etc? do they forget thousands of lifes WW2 cost EVERY country around the world?

yet americas views 'WE saved'

shocking

america doesn't deserve any allies/friends - put it this way i hope britain isn't involved in iran...if it was left to me british troops would be pulled out of iraq/afghanistan tomorrow and let the yanks fight their own little mess by themselfs!!

afterall we all saw how good they are in dealing with problems BY THEMSELFS in vietnam other nations deal problems by themselfs (britain - falklands), why shouldn't america?

let them tackle their own problem on the so 'war for *cough* oil' (i mean terrorism).

but let other nations solve REAL global issues such as climate change/poverty in africa, (issues america isn't interested in)!!

you carry on making films like 'saving private ryan' (WW2 but only america was mentioned),

and i guess everyone is happy.















[edit on 30-5-2006 by st3ve_o]

Jesus guys... what is everyone around here thinking???

1. "Conscript armies always suck, no matter what". Unless of course America is using one to "save Europe from the Nazis"- that was the first time it ever worked. (oh, and it does sorta OK for Israel too, right? I assume you'll agree since an alarming number of the militants I've known in this country seem to be evangelicals)

2. Chally 2 isn't well protected enough, even if it is already one of the best protected tanks in the universe. Chally 3 should be a giant steel sphere half a mile in diameter, driven by the crew doing a hampster wheel action from the inside, and armed simply by the ability to ram its targets. That would be impossible to destroy.

3. Lets invent a new ASW helicopter then only put it on one stinkin ship.

etc etc etc.

Think before you speak people.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Think before you speak people.

Can you prove yourself right or are you, like stumason, Mdv2, Lonestar24, sminkeypinkey and waynos, someone who cant say more than "I am right because I am"?

[edit on 30-5-2006 by Zibi]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
1. "Conscript armies always suck, no matter what". Unless of course America is using one to "save Europe from the Nazis"

Yeah, from the Germans - another conscript military.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
3. Lets invent a new ASW helicopter then only put it on one sship.
On ships that would be fighting against submarines. The Argentine submarines pose a threat to the British navy (which is the reason for why I propose the inventing of a new ASW helicopter version). Proof: www.globalsecurity.org...

Originally posted by st3ve_o
yet americas views 'WE saved'

shocking

The Soviets did take on a majority of the German military something like 70 divisions I think? Correct me if I'm wrong. They took around 20 million casualties(miliatry and civilain, the allies all together took 33 million civilian casualties, and 17 million military), but something people dont think about is the amount of war materials that the US sent to Europe and the Soviet Union in the form of Tanks, Ammunition, Trucks, rifles and other war materials. Without the materials Germany could(hypothetically) have taken the Soviets eventually in my opinion. The war would have at least dragged on much longer. I'm not saying the US did save Europe, but I am saying the US supplying the other allies(especially the Soviets) before and after she entered the war made a whole lot of difference and kept others from being overtaken due to lack of supplies. Soviet industry was a wreck during and after the invasion. The US sent about $11 billion worth of war materials to the Soviets, How much is that today with inflation?

US-Soviet wartime alliance

maybe so, but america has received a lot of donations/aid from europe (and around the world) due to the hurricanes etc you've had over the years!!

i'm sorry for how i wrote my post out above, ive had chance to chill a bit now - it just gets me mad with the ignorance.

and this 'ignorance' doesn't come from joe bloggs, it comes from the mouth of your leader.








[edit on 30-5-2006 by st3ve_o]