At least 8 hurt in ‘flash mob’ attack in Center City, including off-duty cop

a reply to: TheRedneck

Exactly my thoughts. If someone gets a real job repaving a road... that's hard, dirty, back-breaking work... they get to look at that road every day and say "I did that."

And absolutely nothing feels better than knowing you did a job worth doing and you did it well. That's one of the things I love about Mike Rowe -- he understands this. He knows work and he knows workers and he respects and reveres both. He could be an ideal mentor to our youth and young adults -- of all races, creeds and colors. What a boost for the nation's infrastructure, economy and morale. (And that positivity would feed itself exponentially).

They'll have a little money in their pockets from that hard work. And chances are, they'll start looking for a way to replicate that feeling after the road is paved. That's a good job, which leads to a better home, a better car, more of the things we take for granted... and the next thing you know they aren't a gang-banger any more... they're a pillar of society showing those younger than them the way forward.

Exactly. I would love to also see a mentor program implemented so these new life skills can be taught and shared, especially in the inner cities where absentee fathers are more common. So many would thrive with these simple opportunities.

As crime goes down, more businesses will move back in, because that's what drove them away to begin with. That's more jobs. That's more revenue for the state. Funnel that back into better local schools. In a decade, you'll have manufacturing jobs paying good wages.

I would also like to see more opportunities for those residents to own and/or operate businesses within their own communities. I'd bet robbery/burglary rates would go down when the owners are also locals -- even family.

We do have to deal with the gangs and drugs and the black market that rules too often. They ruin it for everyone. That won't be easy. They are entrenched in their own power -- big fish in little ponds. Trump is talking tough, and that's good. It's gotta be done. I don't have a problem with that; but I do want us to simultaneously address these other issues. The vacuum left by busting gangs will have to be filled immediately -- if we don't fill it, the sharks and vultures will.

And if he's smart, Trump will take that success and arrange a drive into the neighborhood, stop the car, and personally shake the hand of and thank those ex-troubled youth who did the work. Heck, arrange a press conference, get them all up on stage, and give them a standing ovation! Come 2020, the left will lose the inner city vote 90-10!

Yup! Give them real solutions, and Trump will see real results in the voting booth.

And that's probably why DC is so terrified. Disadvantaged people can be easily controlled; not so much with successful people.

Yes! Exactly!!! We have to empower people and make them strong and resourceful and independent so that they don't need nor want government taking care of them.An initial investment will reap eternal rewards for all of us. Hillary only got it half right... the truth is that when we're stronger alone, then we're stronger together. But there is not and should not be any government in that "we."

a reply to: Boadicea

We do have to deal with the gangs and drugs and the black market that rules too often. They ruin it for everyone. That won't be easy.

I really hate to say the following... it pains me to do so. But in this type of local circumstance, stop-and-frisk works.

I wholly oppose the tactic for the general population. It is invasive, unnecessary, and unprofitable. But in a poor, inner-city, crime-riddled neighborhood, it is quite probably the only thing that would work. The allure of the gangster life would go away with time and success, but the gangs themselves, as you say, would stay entrenched too long to allow the program to come to fruition.

TheRedneck

But I am sure the youths in this mob are frightened because Trump was elected. People may say mean things to them now. And so they are preemptively defending themselves by beating these people.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: TheRedneck

Or we could look into something that has changed consistent with the increase in violent tendencies among youth.

How about this: AND we should look into other changes consistent with the increase in violent tendencies among youth.

Lead use has been curtailed in society, not increased. Ergo, lead consumption is not a logical suspect.

Yes, lead use and therefore lead poisoning has been curtailed in society, at least in part for the reasons I stated. But it is not eliminated, such as pre-existing lead and lead-tainted water pipes still in use today.

Further, those most affected in concentrated areas are the inner-city residents... where we also find the greatest levels of violent crime. Ergo, lead consumption is indeed a logical suspect, as confirmed by the many young adults in those inner cities diagnosed with lead poisoning.

It is a good place to start where the problem is greatest. But as you note below, it is only a start.

What has changed is societal attitude towards youth. Constant coddling throughout formative years. An attempt to remove all consequences from actions. Prescribed drug use for children to maintain calm rather than discipline. Definition of 'child abuse' to include corporal punishment. Attempts to remove parental rights to promote social agendas. Family courts that are more responsive to financial gain for the lawyers than to the true best interests of the children.

All valid points, and very much appreciated. I would also point out that all of these root causes compound each other, in various ways, depending on nature and nurture.

You are correct that we need to determine the cause and fix it.

Thank you -- another good start.

Just not that that cause must coincide with easily swallowed propaganda.

I would suggest that the "easily swallowed propaganda" is coming from the city, state and federal officials who are trying to cover their own butts, who know this is a problem and that it happened on their watch and continue to let it happen and refuse to fix the problem.

Well, and those exploiting the situation for their own selfish purposes and agenda.

No it's not a logical suspect, that is lead. The social and economic research and evidence is legion showing the connection between poverty and its various variables and crime...

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: opethPA
Go Philly!!!

"Over 50 juveniles reportedly began attacking people in the area of 16th and Walnut streets around 6 p.m. Saturday night, leading to as many as eight injuries. NBC10 reports an off-duty police officer had the bone around his eye broken when the crowd turned on him while attempting to make arrests."

I should say this is horrible but its just to be expected in a big city. If one cop looks at a person wrong people will show up in the PC forum here with pitchforks proclaiming them all brownshirts.

A scenario like this and all 50 of the animals should be arrested but sadly that wont happen. Ill post follow up if its there but my guess is the same authors on Philly.com will blame everyone but the kids who did this..They will blame being ignored or marginalized or something similar vs just saying "a pack of an animals acted like a pack of animals

www.philly.com..."

What you quote is not in the article.

The only specifics are given is this:

According to police, a smaller group of juveniles broke off from a large crowd and began attacking people in the area of 16th and Walnut streets around 6 p.m. Saturday night. Six people were injured.

One of the injured was an off duty police officer.

It says nothing about 50 youths attacking people 'flash mob style'. The title of the article says 'flash mob', true, but there is nothing in the article that matches your quote. The author doesn't say how it was a 'flash bob' either.

I made my post at 11:05 and the story had already been up for sometime prior to that and when you look at the updated time on the article: Updated: NOVEMBER 13, 2016 — 12:15 PM EST still though Ill update the post so maybe then you can focus on the crime that occurred...

a reply to: TheRedneck

Back in L.A. during the 90s, the gang wars got seriously out of hand and started spilling outside their neighborhoods. I don't remember exactly what started it. The cops cracked down HARD. No one complained. But I do recall a couple of cops being found out as part of the drugs rings or something and losing their jobs. Just a couple bad cops in the mix can cause a whole lot of trouble.

I think something similar could be done in today's inner cities on a temporary emergency basis. Similar to martial law for targeted areas. Stop and frisk would be part of that, perhaps curfews as well. Neighborhood-wide raids -- but with probable cause and duly obtained warrants -- perhaps spaced out a bit or repeated, but with positive actions being taken simultaneously for those not involved and who do not want to be involved.

I'm not sure the best way to make it work, but somehow create an obvious choice: Go clean or go down. The gangs are wreaking havoc on these neighborhoods and their neighbors. It must stop.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

No it's not a logical suspect, that is lead. The social and economic research and evidence is legion showing the connection between poverty and its various variables and crime...

Yes, lead is a logical suspect for the reasons I've stated, and a well known and documented cause of violence (though not the only one) as there is also a legion of evidence showing the connections between inner city poverty and lead poisoning. In further posts, I have further explained the association.

In further discussion, we have also addressed other factors, and the toxic combination thereof.

Please catch up and join us. It's a good discussion.

a reply to: Boadicea

Last post of the night...

The real trick, as I see it, lies in drawing a fine line between cracking down and oppressing. We would need to actually present two different messages depending on who we're dealing with, and that is a tall order. It's not as cut and dried as one might think. Some members of gangs are bloodthirsty animals, but others are simply there because there's nowhere else to go. That latter group is the one we want to save. I care nothing about the former group. Actual Martial Law would drive a serious wedge between the police and the community. But not coming down hard on crime negates the whole plan.

Here's where I look around with a confused look on my face and just hope Trump knows what he's doing...

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Excellent summation. Can't add a thing!

a reply to: TheRedneck

I was just reading this article -- Donald Trump plans to immediately deport 2 million to 3 million undocumented immigrants -- and I could help but see a connection to our conversation. I know we were speaking mostly to the Black inner city neighborhoods and gangs, but they often get their drugs to sell from the Mexican gangs -- if not the Mexican cartels themselves.

“What we are going to do is get the people that are criminal and have criminal records, gang members, drug dealers, where a lot of these people, probably 2 million, it could be even 3 million, we are getting them out of our country or we are going to incarcerate,”

The banks and government have been in bed with the Mexican drug cartels for too long -- some cartels more than others -- and they make too much money off it in too many ways. All of this avarice and corruption trickles down to the lowliest gangbanger drug dealer. Hopefully that's one of the things Trump will throw a big fat wrench into. This is another way Trump could make it difficult or maybe even impossible for gangs to continue operating.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

No it's not a logical suspect, that is lead. The social and economic research and evidence is legion showing the connection between poverty and its various variables and crime...

Yes, lead is a logical suspect for the reasons I've stated, and a well known and documented cause of violence (though not the only one) as there is also a legion of evidence showing the connections between inner city poverty and lead poisoning. In further posts, I have further explained the association.

In further discussion, we have also addressed other factors, and the toxic combination thereof.

Please catch up and join us. It's a good discussion.

I will, but as a professional anti poverty practitioner, I can tell you that this is NOT what is any kind of main cause. No professionals in the field would agree with you, whether they are doctors, economists, or law enforcement. The evidence doesn't point to this as a primary explanatory variable. And it fails on a global level. Poverty and violence is far bigger than the US..

a reply to: Boadicea

Difficult, yes, but not impossible. If their primary source of income dries up, gangs will just find another source of income... perhaps extortion. In addition, stopping the drug flow completely is a tall order. There will be some who manage to sneak a bit through the border, or even some who will prepare the drugs here.

But it WILL help!

Trump has spoken candidly about his experience with drugs and alcohol. He said his brother had taught him everything not to do in life, by dying so young from abuse of drugs and alcohol. There will likely be no quarter given to drug smugglers under his administration. I consider that a good thing.

But the downside is that we have seen a movement to end the war on lesser drugs, and I believe that is a good thing. It is likely that Trump will oppose this movement. I consider that a bad thing.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I will, but as a professional anti poverty practitioner...

I really have no idea what training or education a professional anti-poverty practitioner has, so I have no idea how to equate the two. I am assuming that you are not medically trained however,

I have read numerous studies, reviews and articles which do in fact make this link. One focused on the drastic decrease in violent crime after lead paint and leaded gasoline were banned, especially within the older teen-younger adult age brackets. I have specifically said that I do not believe it is a widespread problem, but rather a concentrated problem which compounds with other problems.

I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job, but I do think you would be doing yourself and your clients a huge favor to check out some of the studies and reports yourself, rather than shooting the messenger so to speak. It may or may not be a huge problem for many, but for those for whom it is a problem, I would suspect it is a big problem.

I can tell you that this is NOT what is any kind of main cause. No professionals in the field would agree with you, whether they are doctors, economists, or law enforcement. The evidence doesn't point to this as a primary explanatory variable. And it fails on a global level. Poverty and violence is far bigger than the US..

I don't believe there is one "main" cause for poverty. I believe there are many causes and contributing factors. There is no one-size-fits-all problem nor one-size-fits-all solution.

But as I understand it, high lead levels are an even bigger problem in the rest of the world. In fact, I've seen warnings not to use spices or herbal supplements manufactured elsewhere for this very reason. I believe turmeric is one of the worst.

If the evidence doesn't point to it, as you say, then perhaps it's because no one's paying enough attention to find that evidence. And/or perhaps because the folks responsible for making sure it doesn't happen are protecting their own butts. And/or perhaps because there are too many folks exploiting these weaknesses for their own benefit -- financially, politically, etc.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Yes, I see the challenges too. The worst of the bunch will try to hold on with everything they've got. And try to coerce others to do the same (which is already a problem. Even those who don't want to be part of a gang are often given no real choice.) I do believe the decriminalization of marijuana will help.