O.T.O. Personal experiences

Hey guys!

I was wondering if some of you guys had some experiences with o.t.o.? Not friends of your but you personally... and where did you attend the "lodges"..

What is the basis of their teachings? And are they good or evil? (By that i mean their teachings and effect to the individual) is it "brainwashing" or some credible and usefull practises?

a reply to: Jufak

OTO is sex magick.

Not something wholesome, sodomy and every perveted act Crowley could think of.

Ha yea that's what I pretty much understand too...

I'm fascinated with Crowley and have considered trying some of his operations myself or checking out an OtO temple.. then I remember I could only get so far until the sodomy comes up.. at which point I would have to decline..

I guess that's why I'll never be a super man..

I hope somoone with experience chimes in.




a reply to: Malocchio

a reply to: SteamyJeans

I could live with Kama Sutra I think.

But that area is exit only.

a reply to: SteamyJeans

I was always more fascinated with Parsons. That guy was interesting to me. Good thing the last thing I learned about him was that he schtooped his mother and videotaped it.

He seemed like a generous and decent guy who Hubbard took advantage of. I don't hold the thing with his mom against him if it's even true. He was a kid.

You really think anyone will come on here and tell you all about the Fudge Packing / turd burglar sessions?

If I recall . Crowley and Parsons schism was parsons not finding all of Crowleys freaky sex necessary .. could have been the other fellow .. Grant?

Can't remember .

But yea like most of Crowleys followers he used them up and left them when they see no longer useful or started thinking for themselves.
a reply to: Malocchio

a reply to: SteamyJeans

Crowley was actually disturbed that Jack was doing rituals with Hubbard and disgusted that he let himself be conned.

"Weak fool" I believe is what he called Parsons and ''obvious confidence trick" regarding the Hubbard incident.

Google: Babalon working (spelled as I did).

a reply to: Jufak

Those who know fear death if they talk. That must answer some questions.

originally posted by: Jufak
I was wondering if some of you guys had some experiences with o.t.o.? Not friends of your but you personally... and where did you attend the "lodges"..

I've been a member for about 4 years or so. Recently finished the "Man of Earth" initiations. I've attended events at lodges in Baltimore, Daytona, Orlando, Sacramento, Austin, Philadelphia, Indianapolis, and a lot here in Minneapolis. I'm an ordained Deacon in the Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica, and am working towards getting ordained as a Priest. I'm also a member of the A.'.A.'., and I have had a *lot* of experiences with the O.T.O.

What is the basis of their teachings?

Liber AL vel Legis, or The Book of the Law. The basis of the teachings can be summarrized as "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." It's better to read the Book of the Law on your own and see what you think before you start soliciting ideas from others about what that might mean for you, imo.

And are they good or evil? (By that i mean their teachings and effect to the individual) is it "brainwashing" or some credible and usefull practises?

Speaking for myself, so far, so good. The OTO is comprised of individuals who generally like to have a good time, and want to hang out with other people who want to have a good time. Being an organization that was sex-positive in a sex-negative world, we have received a lot of the condemnations people of a more repressed sexuality usually apply to sexuality itself. We are a "solar-phallic sex cult," but that doesn't really mean anything other than we enjoy the act of creation.

Things that were taboo in the times Crowley lived and learned are amazingly blase in today's American culture (within the cities, at least), so a lot of the sex-cult stuff that people seem to get all worried about are, in real life, far less outrageous to experience than watching a Showtime or HBO series at this point. Coming out of Victorian England, the idea of naked ladies and holy rituals was just shocking. Homosexuality was still a jailable offense. These people were complete barbarians in comparison to us today.

It's funny to see people condemning the OTO for being sex-positive on this thread. I'd bet dollars to donuts their porn search terms would return results far more shocking than anything Aleister Crowley ever did, imagined, or wrote about.

As far as "brainwashing" goes, not so much. We hang out, we drink wine, and we discuss magick. We have classes on things ranging from yoga to Hermetic Magick, to Egyptian Gods, and wine tastings. "Do what thou wilt" is really the "whole of the Law" for us. We don't want anyone to do what we Will, that's not us at all. We are people dedicated and devoted to figuring out WHAT WE WILL TO DO and then going about doing that, with all our hearts, minds, bodies, and whatever invisible spirits we have inside or outside of us interested in helping.

We are all allergic to people telling us what to do. The only limit to our personal freedom is the impingement upon anyone else's personal freedom to do their Will. The Law is for all, not just for us. I personally don't like people who come to the OTO looking to be told what to do. Fortunately they don't last long. Getting told to "Do what thou Wilt" is a pretty scary experience for people who haven't learned to trust themselves.

As far as "Useful Practices," if you join the OTO and like it, you hang out with people who are into doing their Will, and it can rub off on you if you want. You also get recommended reading lists with each degree you take. Most local bodies provide classes on various occult practices, meditation, and yoga. Not all of them though. It depends a lot on whether or not anyone local is qualified to- and interested in- teaching.

a reply to: RufusOpus

You do know that Crowley was known for eating fesces, right?

He would get a thrill getting people to do sick isht like that and if not for that and the sodomy, I would not mind Crowley but he was a definite creep, I don't get down with fesces.

I think it is Hollywood that has made his teachings, if you can call them that , because once Hollywood accepts something no matter how depraved people will imitate.

And Jay-Z and many rappers are into male-male sex magick and just sex. The scandals are well known and Jay Z is famous for wearing a Do What Thou Wilt... T shirt.

On the flip side they had some old burnout dude summon Anubis on tv.

I wonder where one buys an Anubis costume because he showed alright but ...

a reply to: Malocchio

Do you know where he refers to coprophagia, the context, and the type of workings he was dealing with at the time of the writing?

You do know he used symbols and metaphors in his writings, don't you?

When he refers to coprophagia, could it be a reference to something else?

I'm not saying he didn't eat feces, but there is some doubt surrounding the idea. In real life he wasn't nearly as outlandish and extreme as he liked to pretend in writing.

Do you think a non-gender-biased sexually liberated spiritual teacher would be in a better or worse position to teach the hermetic practices that are depicted in alchemical texts as hermaphroditic outcomes of the philosophical Great Work?

Can you cite any Hollywood product ever that promoted any of Crowley's teachings? Which teachings? From which books?

Do you have any idea what you're even trying to talk about?

a reply to: RufusOpus

The Rock stars of the 60's and 70's were into Crowley and many stars today are known to be fans of his teachings.

Jimmy Page bought Boleskine, Crowley's house on Lock Ness.

Ozzy has a song called "Mr. Crowley."

The Beatles placed him on an album cover.


Those are only the well known incidents of Crowley reverence in show business but I would say in private his teachings are more popular than ever.

Nobody talks about him because he's controversial but Sex Magick and Hollywood are pb&j.

Although OTO membership is actually only in the thousands his teachings aren't confined.

a reply to: Malocchio

So, you're shifting "Hollywood" to "Show business." Ok.

Boleskine's in Scotland.

Led Zepelin, the Beatles, and Ozzy are rock stars, as you noted, but also as British as Crowley. That said, the Beatles don't provide any of Crowley's texts or lyrics or teachings in their music. There's some stuff in their works that can be linked to the teachings of Crowley, but so could everything that happened from 1904 on, if you tried hard enough. That whole "aeon" thing, you know?

Page liked Crowley and the ideas of Thelema, and I can't remember now if he every joined OTO or not, but I'm pretty sure he was a lot more into being Jimmy Page than being a front man for Crowley or Thelema. Like salt seasoning a soup doesn't make the soup salt, Thelema's influence on Page and Zeppelin aren't really more than seasoning.

Crowley wrote a poem to teach people to pronounce his name:

My name is Aleister Crowley
Master of all things unholy.

In Mr. Crowley, Ozzy can't even get that right. He sang some lyrics he and Rhoades and Daisley came up with based on their understanding of Crowley, which apparently was just that he taught about magick and did drugs. They knew somewhat less than you seem to know about him, but not by a whole lot. Their focus was on the drugs and the rock star lifestyle he led because those were the things they had in common with him.

Is that why you're so interested in his eating of feces?

originally posted by: RufusOpus
a reply to: Malocchio

So, you're shifting "Hollywood" to "Show business." Ok.

Boleskine's in Scotland.

As is Lock Ness, as I said. Are you like desperate to correct me on something because I am not sympathetic to your sex cult?

Led Zepelin, the Beatles, and Ozzy are rock stars, as you noted, but also as British as Crowley. That said, the Beatles don't provide any of Crowley's texts or lyrics or teachings in their music. There's some stuff in their works that can be linked to the teachings of Crowley, but so could everything that happened from 1904 on, if you tried hard enough. That whole "aeon" thing, you know?

The Aeon of Horus, yes, big deal I didn't claim anything that you are trying to make it appear that I did, I don't think you can be trusted as your bordering on aggressive and dishonest.

Page liked Crowley and the ideas of Thelema, and I can't remember now if he every joined OTO or not, but I'm pretty sure he was a lot more into being Jimmy Page than being a front man for Crowley or Thelema. Like salt seasoning a soup doesn't make the soup salt, Thelema's influence on Page and Zeppelin aren't really more than seasoning.

No, he was a dedicated Thelemite and Crowley enthusiast, as apparent by the fact that he bought his house because it was his.

Crowley wrote a poem to teach people to pronounce his name:

My name is Aleister Crowley
Master of all things unholy.

In Mr. Crowley, Ozzy can't even get that right. He sang some lyrics he and Rhoades and Daisley came up with based on their understanding of Crowley, which apparently was just that he taught about magick and did drugs. They knew somewhat less than you seem to know about him, but not by a whole lot. Their focus was on the drugs and the rock star lifestyle he led because those were the things they had in common with him.

Is that why you're so interested in his eating of feces?

Interesting thing it is to eat fesces, and repugnant that you don't mind the sodomitic teachings of a fecaltarion.

a reply to: Jufak

I was a member of the OTO at one point. Out of curiosity. I eventually decided it was not doing anything for me, and stopped attending.

a reply to: RufusOpus

Do you think a non-gender-biased sexually liberated spiritual teacher would be in a better or worse position to teach the hermetic practices that are depicted in alchemical texts as hermaphroditic outcomes of the philosophical Great Work?

What alchemical texts did he teach from ?

can you give me specifics

originally posted by: kibric

What alchemical texts did he teach from ?

can you give me specifics

Teaching hermetic principles isn't the same as teaching from specific alchemical texts.

That said, his teachings incorporated the lessons of The Magus (Barrett's rip off of Agrippa's Three Books of Occult Philosophy, which should be required reading for anyone interested in Alchemy), the Lemegeton, the Key of Solomon, the Corpus Hermeticum, and various manuscripts from the Sloane collection at the British Library.

The thing is, he was a crucible in which the lessons percolated and were transmuted into a more accessible form for modern consumption. At least, imo. I think now his writings are dated, but they were just right for the 1970s, even though they were written decades before.

Most are dabblers, a few great thinkers, some expert ritualists, many skeptics, few that can actually work the formulas, and on occasion you will come across a demon in the flesh.

Manly P. Hall wrote late in life, real initiations are spiritual and never take place in a lodge, as no one living has the authority to do so. Every physical initiation is just a signpost, which if followed produce results, but no man can give you wisdom, you have to earn it on your own time, and unfold it within. The greatest obstacle to wisdom is much company, because it stirs up the mind, which is incapable of truth. Mind tries to divide and analyze things, truth is one, self evident, and is beyond reason and beyond feeling.

The downside to any organization is to get a mental reality map and think "this is the truth" or confuse spiritual experiences with feeling good, or becoming materially successful, while good in themselves, if confused with spiritual initiation they become another trap.

a reply to: Jufak