A question for Charlotte: How does looting a Walmart, burning a truck advance your cause?

originally posted by: reldra


This website has been over and over that. Police officers are held to a higher standard. I think you know that.

First I haven't seen one person argue against the Harvard study that shows unarmed whites are more likely to be shot. Would you kindly show me where that has happened on this thread, or any where else? If you have no response, how do you justify the fact that the entire narrative of blacks being killed disproportionately by police is a lie?

Is this lie worth rioting over? They interviewed people on the streets tonight, and asked them what if the guy in Charlotte that was shot that started this was actually armed. Know what they said? It doesn't matter, its about the narrative. So if this narrative is a lie, all of this destruction was for naught. And now another black man lies in critical condition in the efforts to further this lie.

And maybe the fact that you are so quick to gloss over the massive amount of black on black violence is a big part of the problem.

Try telling that to a little girl thats mom got killed by a gang banger "Oh sorry, we are to busy rioting over the 36 unarmed blacks that were killed by police this year to care about you or the over 4000 other victims of black on black murder a year."

a reply to: reldra

I know. You do not like the facts that have been presented to you and thus because the facts do not support your view I am ignorant. I know how you are.

Looting a Walmart truck advances my goal of getting a free 60" LED TV.

a reply to: reldra

So going down to the Welfare office and doing the paperwork every few months to provide your proof of income that decides what your EBT balance is going to be and how much the government is going to subsidize your rent through the section 8 program doesn't count as "Free goodies"?

You act like spending half a day to a day at most once a month to get benefits is real hard work.

a reply to: Nyiah

By the numbers alone, posters here have already show it's not even an epidemic. What was the percentage of cop shootings in total, like 0.003% of the population or something? How about morons not riot in defense over even dumber morons being shot? The unjustifiable shootings are even smaller, and ultimately from an objective standpoint, this isn't worth the s#storm.

It's not about the shooting. Look at the examples I just posted. The draft riots weren't really about drafts, they were about horrible conditions and people at the bottom fighting over jobs. That Astor Place Riot wasn't really about which of two actors was better. It was about poor people in crappy conditions and class division. The actors were proxies. The American, Forrest, was the one loved by the lower class. The Brit, Macready, was the darling of the upper crust.

Guess who was performing at the Astor Opera House? Macready. The native born Americans hated Macready but more importantly, they hated what he stood for. Poor Irish immigrants hated it too. The actors' rivalry and the performance were just a catalyst.

Cincinnati Courthouse Riots of 1884? It wasn't about a single murderer. Job conditions were deplorable. The crime rate was very high, particularly the number of murders. The court system was corrupt, the politicians were corrupt and in their minds, those who could afford it were literally getting away with murder. The people believed the jury had been bribed.

The trial was just the spark that ignited the powder keg.

This isn't just about this one man's death and it's not even about police shooting unarmed black people (I have no opinion at this point about the incident) it's about the same 'ol s# it's always about. People being poor, bad job situation/unemployment and people feeling that they're living under a corrupt system that's out to get them.

That doesn't excuse rioters. It doesn't make making looting right and it sure as hell doesn't justify hurting people and damaging property. However, given the lessons of history and an objective understanding of the very real circumstances that many folks are willfully ignorant of, it's predictable as all hell.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: reldra


This website has been over and over that. Police officers are held to a higher standard. I think you know that.

First I haven't seen one person argue against the Harvard study that shows unarmed whites are more likely to be shot. Would you kindly show me where that has happened on this thread, or any where else? If you have no response, how do you justify the fact that the entire narrative of blacks being killed disproportionately by police is a lie?

Is this lie worth rioting over? They interviewed people on the streets tonight, and asked them what if the guy in Charlotte that was shot that started this was actually armed. Know what they said? It doesn't matter, its about the narrative. So if this narrative is a lie, all of this destruction was for naught. And now another black man lies in critical condition in the efforts to further this lie.

And maybe the fact that you are so quick to gloss over the massive amount of black on black violence is a big part of the problem.

Try telling that to a little girl thats mom got killed by a gang banger "Oh sorry, we are to busy rioting over the 36 unarmed blacks that were killed by police this year to care about you or the over 4000 other victims of black on black murder a year."

Unarmed blacks are more likley to be shot.

Unarmed whites become more likley to be shot.

I am not glossing over gang violence, it simply exists. Me nor you nor the government seems to have control over gangs.

The narrarative is important, but the reality is more important. This keeps happening. Over and over and in REALITY.

originally posted by: ksiezyc
a reply to: reldra

I know. You do not like the facts that have been presented to you and thus because the facts do not support your view I am ignorant. I know how you are.

I never said you are ignorant. I understand the facts presented to me. I am not sure you like the facts presented to you.

You obviously do not know how I am.

originally posted by: reldra

Unarmed blacks are more likley to be shot.

Unarmed whites become more likley to be shot.

I am not glossing over gang violence, it simply exists. Me nor you nor the government seems to have control over gangs.

The narrarative is important, but the reality is more important. This keeps happening. Over and over and in REALITY.

No thats not true. I provide you with a link of the best study on the issue, by a black man who was inspired to do the study because of the deaths of Mike Brown and Freddy Gray, who looked at thousands of cases and spent over 3000 hours of researched, and was shocked to find the results,

That unarmed whites ARE more likely to be shot by the police.

All of this evidence compared to your single sentence "Unarmed blacks are more likely to be shot".

I believe I will go with the evidence. The facts show the narrative is a lie, you just "feel" like it is the truth.

originally posted by: darkuniverse
I dont remember this happening when I was a kid or the past 10 years. Only when Obama took office, if I'm wrong, correct me. Not at this magnitude.

Its just easier now to organize outrage in todays connected digital age, but its not like...Obama or Trump's fault. the poor are always used to riot against random causes (often nonsense)..and its a good time to go get free stuff for them.

I could also point at all the 60s protests and such, rioting is not irregular.
I think it should be ignored tbh unless you are directly in the path of the rabble.

originally posted by: ksiezyc
a reply to: gpols

No, you can not discuss the real issues because there is no problem in the black community regarding families(rather single mothers with children), gangs, violence or poverty.

Have you ever wondered why there are no problems with "black communities" to this extent in the rest of the world ? why don't we see black communities riot across the Europe as much as they do in the USA ?

These individuals are protesting the wrong people. They are useful idiots. People in today's world, need to be cognizant that they are being manipulated constantly, using their own emotions. In a time when critical thinking is more important than ever, most are bringing a squirt gun into the firefight.

Also, this narrative isn't even consistent. The cop in this case, is a black man. Useful idiocy..

a reply to: SaturnFX
I stand corrected, thanks

a reply to: Grambler

What about when non police officers kill blacks, should they riot over that too? That seems to happen far more often, yet gets far less attention.

The reason that police killing blacks is a focal point is quite obvious isn't it? The cops are representative of the crooked system. The dead man as I'm sure you could guess is representative of black people as a whole. Which is why it doesn't really matter if the cop who did the shooting was black or white or if the shooting was justified or not.

I can show you videos of children killed in gang shootouts, you wanna see them? Oh, but it may make you wanna riot. And what if unarmed white people are more likely to get shot by police than unarmed blacks.

We're not going to cover a whole lot of ground if people are just going to stick to same old political talking points are we? Who here honestly believes that this riot is simply about this one man's death or even about the deaths of blacks in encounters with police?

I talk a little smack in the mud pit but the truth is, I know that a large chunk of Trump support comes from frustrated white people who have very legitimate anxiety about the employment outlook, about their future economic prospects and those of their children. People who feel that the system is rigged against them and that unlike minority groups, nobody is representing their interests. In fact, I'd go so far to say many feel that they're being blamed as "white people" for things they have no control over.

It's not hard for me to imagine the appeal of his message to this group even if it's really really hard for me to wrap my mind around how Donald Trump could ever be seen as the champion of the working class or poor of any race.

My point (I know, I'm rambling) is that the people protesting and rioting and those people supporting Trump have many of the exact same sentiments in common.

The problem is that we're constantly presented with these false dichotomies and our political "sides" waste time pandering to us with identity politics to get elected, stumbling around fighting to be captain of a sinking ship that they're too blind, ignorant or unwilling to save.

Black people have gotten a raw deal in this country as a group. Anyone who denies that is denying objective reality. Working class whites have been feeling the squeeze and anyone who denies that they have good reason for concern, is also denying objective reality.

The answer is clearly for people to band together and demand very specific change. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like anyone is catching on to what that change is and they're just parroting political rhetoric at one another. That's why we have two horrble candidates who won't fix anything. That's why we'll be here in threads like this over and over again.

FTR, the change I believe we need is a complete paradigm shift in employment. We went from an agrarian economy to an industrial economy and now we're like or not, decades into deindustrialization and nobody really knows what to do next. What jobs do many of these people really have to look forward to? How can black people catch up economically without decent employment opportunities?

Instead of risking sounding like a damn socialist commie — because we're ingrained with a false dichotomy that you are either a faithful believer in "free market" capitalism or a Marxist radical — people keep holding on to this delusion that pulling a few levers and twisting a couple of dials on "the machine" is what we need. We've been indoctrinated to believe that our current "system" is somehow perfect and the only system we should ever ever need.

Some people cling to nonsense about deregulation, trickle-down economics and the pipedream about a renaissance in manufacturing employment that'll happen when somebody "brings back the jobs." Other people choose to believe in equally ridiculous ideas like "free college" somehow magically creating jobs for college grads. What useless bs. Ugh.

I'm done ranting. I've depressed myself.

Whats done is done what is in the past cannot be undone, only paid for... each action has freedom at stake if it crosses the mind then balance it if it crosses the speech then close it off, if it crosses to action? One's freedom pays for it.

This sort of reaction is in frustration of people that simply have built into a wave standing firm against their voice seeking equality of people and as people by other people trying to close off freedom because it crosses their mind is a fight for inequality not justice... so in spite of the face of law justice tries to find hands and what they grab becomes free yet they do not.

It's quite a hell of a metaphor to martyr oneself over isn't it? Taking a bunch of useless crap in protest of robbing freedom... you may chain the body but the mind is always free.

darkuniverse:

A rioting mob shut down Interstate 85, attacking terrified motorists. One female truck driver cried as she told a reporter that her cargo was being set on fire. Looters pillaged and plundered a Walmart. More than a dozen police officers were injured, along with civilians and at least three reporters.

link:www.foxnews.com...

I have always wondered this. How does this help your cause or how does this help in the process of your protest?

The question you are really posing is how can you reconcile such behaviour with the insult to the original injustice with which you can reconcile? I don't you think you can, nor would want to. Destructive behaviour such as you have highlighted is opportunistic, a chance for some to act on their sense of societal injustice. Everyone knows that for peaceful protest to have an effect, you need the figures of authority to which your protest is aimed at to be empathetic. Without this 'empathy', peaceful protest can never achieve anything. It is why dictators and totalitarians can only be removed by either violent revolution or regime change (which is controlled anarchy through withdrawl of consent, a legitimate last resort) or they die in power.

African-Americans are not being listened to, that is the perception they have, so their sense of reasonable and peaceful protest has been so strained that it has snapped because of the repeated perceived injustices. Yet, what they are grieved about should also grieve all other ethnicities in America. Injustice against the African-American is an injustice to all Americans. There is no escaping that fact.

Police tactics in America over the last decade have become more pre-emptively severe in the way they treat citizens. The police in America no longer seem to 'protect and serve', but insist that the citizen either 'complies or dies' in the most perfunctory manner, and it is applied for even the most simple misdemeanour's.

The use of force should be both reluctant and proportionate, but that does not mean that force should never be applied. Police should act reasonably and respond proportionately to the threat, but when a cop is having to deal with a member of the public who is so belligerent that compliance cannot be gained, reason and proportion go out the window. Police are after all, human just like you or I. They feel the same range of emotions and fears, and because both reason and proportion are interpretive, it seems a number of police get it wrong, and when they repeatedly do so, the consequences can lead to an angry sense of social injustice.

Riotous behaviour is a break down of social cohesion, and it is ironic that social cohesion should break down because of actions by those mandated to maintain social cohesion. The problem with riots is that they have no focus, it is simply violence for violence sake, and no reasonable thinking person could ever condone such, even as they understand the sense of injustice from which it may emerge.

Local communities and the people who live there didn't cause the injustice, so why attack your own area and economy? Focus of anger should be applied only to that which causes you your grievance, but if you are going to use violence, then you have to expect that society will respond with sanctioned violence in return, and disregard your sense of injustice.

a reply to: Grambler

here is a site from the Guardian, it's called the counted. to date in there have been 790 people killed by Law Enforcement this year.

of those 790
13 were native american 5.49 per million
14 were asian/ pacific isl 0.72 prt million
121 were hispanic/ latino 2.3 per million
185 were black 4.86 per million
354 were white 1.95 per million

thing is they count by population, which shouldn't be the case. they should be counted by the calls/ incidents. going by population doesn't give a true picture, lower populations will show a higher percent.

The Counted
you can use the filters under the year, list and map buttons to see pictures of the ones killed.

the washing post has one to, it says 706
white 324
black 173
hispanic 111
other 27
unknown 71
Fatal Force

Here are the details begin the shooting.

Link:www.youtube.com...

a reply to: hounddoghowlie
WOW! Whites are getting slaughtered

a reply to: darkuniverse

yes they are,and if they were to use 790 for the base number for calls/ incidents. whites are about half of the people killed. just quick rounding off.

originally posted by: ksiezyc
a reply to: gpols

They won't take responsibility. You will be labelled a racist for pointing these issues out and so on.

You keep on saying that "you'll be called a racist," yet literally no one (in this thread or in context to your statement) has said anything about race.

But hey - when it comes to the race card, all logic goes out the window. It's all about those emotional reactions.

No one has suggested that anyone is racist at any point during this thread. No one has even brought race into the picture until you diD.