Dear Liberals, How Do You Reconcile The Totalitarian Democratic Platform??

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: ElGoobero
you do realize that a very similar statement could be said of the right, right?
you want lies??? what about the great.... "planned parenthood sells baby parts" fiasco with it's bogus company, bogus driver's license, manipulated videos, and BOGUS congressional investigations that are still going on.

and of course, certain groups (non-Christian, blacks, women, homosexual) may be treated with contempt because they are ideologically inferior.

looks like the future will belong to book-banning leftists

but.... the christian RIGHT has been burning books all along, the christian religion, as well as most other religions have a long history of burning books and manuscripts, destroying artifacts, and hiding any history that doesn't coincide with their world view. it's part of their traditionalist ways... preserve tradition at all costs.

you are just accusing liberals of all the things that the conservatives have been doing all along basically.

and... "american traditional values" have seen an ongoing transformation since the time of america's discovery. a hundred years from now, they will be different from they are today, and I'd be willing to bet that "hard work" won't be valued as highly mainly because robotics will be doing most of the hard work.

book burnings? treat others with contempt?
your response points are historically inaccurate and represent a false view of traditional America. looks like you've been indoctrinated with revisionist history.

What an underwhelming thread. We are here to discuss the DNC platform , yet its absent from the OP:

www.demconvention.com...

in case anyone is interested.

And instead of talking about points within the platform, instead we get vague and fuzzy insults against the party. Rather than wallow in that mud, here's a couple of elements that i take issue with and that might be worthy of discussion:

And we know t
hat our nation’s long struggle with race is far from over. More than half a century
after Rosa Parks sat and Dr. King marched and John Lewis bled, more than half a century after
César Chávez, Dolores Huerta, and Larry Itliong organized, race still plays a
significant role in
determining who gets ahead in America and who gets left behind. We must face that reality and
we must fix it.

This sounds like more "levelling the playing field" is planned. However, instead of doing this by backfilling the low parts, i expect we will continue lowering the higher parts. We can achieve average by removing those who excel. Its ignoring the concept that wealth inequalities correlation to race has more to do with socioeconomic struggles and less to do with racial struggles. Its hard for any poor person, regardless of race, to "get ahead". THAT is something that should be discussed more. And race, arguably, much less.

We believe in at last guara
nteeing equal pay for women.

No real argumet, so long as we recognize that the issue is less about legislating pay rates, and more about working to reduce the under representation of women in math/science fields, which are higher paying. Otherwise, this is simple pandering.

Democrats believe we are stronger when we protect citizens’ right to vote,
while stopping
corporations’ outsized influence in elections
. We will fight to end
the broken campaign finance
system, overturn the disastrous
Citizens United
decision, restore the full power of the Voting
Rights Act, and return control of our elections to the American people

Yeah right. Like this will happen.

i say that we should hold them all to it, in all branches of government.

We believe
that Americans should earn at least $15 an hour

The ignorance in this statement is stupefying.

$15/hr is 2 complete worlds apart in NYC and Marfa, TX. In Marfa, TX $15/hr is a stellar income. And the local cost of living reflects this lower income requirement. i know a dude who owns a storefront with 2 apartments upstairs in NYC. He makes something like $15k/month off these properties, and lives like a king here (even accounting for the accrual towards repairs and taxes). The cost of living between city and country is night and day. And the lower cost of living is a bargaining chip for smaller communities hoping to attract employers like call centers and supply chain operations. While Im not a fan of minimum wage, I can accept that it works for a lot of people. But the real issue isn't the wages...its the value of our dollar. How about we make that a center plank in the platform? Improve the value of US currency so that minimum wage doesn't need to be adjusted. Which, if we are being wholly honest, has next to zero impact on the middle class (which is where movement needs to happen).

Democrats support a m
odel employer executive order or some other vehicle to leverage federal
dollars to support employers who provide their workers with a living wage, good benefits, and
the opportunity to form a union without reprisal. The one trillion dollars spent annually
by the
government on contracts, loans, and grants should be used to support good jobs that rebuild the
middle class

Oh....so there it is. They are going to grow the middle class by paying the poorest people more. And support it all with tax dollars. No doubt funded by the increased income taxes gained by paying people more monopoly money.

Color me surprised.

Helping More Workers Share in Near
-
Record Corporate Profits
Corporate profits are at
near
-
record highs, but workers have not shared through rising wages.
Profit
-
sharing is linked to higher pay and productivity. That is why, working with business,
labor, and other stakeholders, we will incentivize companies to share profits with their
empl
oyees on top of wages and pay increases, while targeting the workers and businesses that
need profit
-
sharing the most.

Just ask yourself this: if you have a choice of employing people for $15/hr plus sharing your profits, or for $5/hr and no other costs (including health care), where will you place your operation? Assuming you have no soul (like your typical corporation)?

More pandering. It just can't work. Especially when you think about who donates to their campaign: corporations. The same people, it happens, that write a good chunk of our laws for us (as "experts" in their industry).

On the plus side, they do point out the conflict of interest of a Trump presidency during times of real estate crisis. He'd likely be loathe to lose millions signing laws that keep homeowners afloat. And there are some good points made regarding equality and securing social security (it will cause a war if we don't continue to fund it, regardless of the federal position of it being a tax and not an investment).

Anyway, its only 55 pages. And worth the read if you want to understand the lip service a little more. LOL

a reply to: ElGoobero

the mandella effect..
the point where various universes converge...
obviously ATS has become the point of convergence.

nope it's not brainwashed revisionist history...
I know that evangelical christians have a habit of burning books... FROM EXPERIENCE.
and historically, not only did they have a habit of burning books but also people. gee, who are the christian right trying to prop up to be president??



it certainly isn't a liberal!!

and ya know what I can't think of a better example of treating someone in contempt than a tow truck driving leaving a handicapped person on the side of the road because of a danged bumper sticker in their car!!!

just 18 more days of insanity....hopefully!!!

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Good post, although it appears to be entirely off topic!

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I've read part of it, don't think I've read all 55 pages, there's a few things I find a little over the top...
but, there's also a few things in the republican platform that I find a little over the top also.

but, really neither platform is distasteful enough to earn my vote! I'm looking for someone who is willing to tell the american the truth, no someone who is just pandering the votes to their select interest groups. and well, if we actually have someone with enough integrity to lay out the bare truth of what it's gonna take to get to a bettr place for us all... none of us would like it, not even a little bit.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TheKnightofDoom

Have you seen his latest comments?.

No. But was I right?

Let me guess though, he's all "Ya see, ya see!"
And Clinton's all cerebral about it.

The fact is, neither has any solution.

Oddly, I think she has more solutions. Or some solutions. I don't think Trump has even 1.

That is indeed odd, no one has heard her have a standpoint on anything but killing people she doesn't like.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: xstealth
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I've been saying for years this same message. Liberals are the modern day Nazis.

NO, just NO. That is ridiculous as I have already said here. It flies in the face of logic. It may make racists feel better to say it, but it is untrue.

Liberals and logic ?

You are more racist than you believe you are, and all you can say is NO.

You prove his point quite nicely.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TinfoilTP

Trump doesn't know this magically, he was advised this by professionals in the art of war.

Who?
War is not art. Art creates.

War creates far more than Art ever has, wow these scientist hippy types are hilarious.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TinfoilTP

Let's say my uncle was a woman, would he still be my uncle?
What if a giant asteroid suddenly appeared, what would you do?

What if's are fun in a college dorm. Real life is different.

Are you still in college ?

You believe in scientific theories that are almost all What If...scientists are funny that way..........

a reply to: ParasuvO

As a liberal, I actually agree with that. That was brought to my attention by a movie with a scene about the "Art of War" and made me look further. No one said Art had to be compassionate and beautiful.

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

There are some so called white liberals who want to restrict the rights of minorities.



If you're a "feminist," why wouldn't you be celebrating strong, successful, much-admired women like Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann,

Ahahahahaha. Is that a satire site?

@OP I'll answer your question, even though it's based on a host of fallacies, it goes like this:

Canada = more liberal than the USA, less totalitarian than the USA
Nordic Countries = more liberal than the USA, less totalitarian than the USA

Jill Stein is the only candidate campaigning for the pardoning of Edward Snowden, and she's as liberal as you can get.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss



You remarks have been noted and appropriate actions will be taken.

Resistance will only make matters worst.

Your deviance from the path will not be tolerated.

The body will prevail.

Hail Hillary!

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Honestly...the OP lacks sufficient substance to respond in a rational way.

Not sure how to respond to unsupported raving and ranting.

You did mention something about him furthering the war on drugs...which seems specifically antagonistic toward reality and facts...

Obama blasts war on drugs
www.washingtontimes.com...

Obama proposes $1.1 billion to expand care for opioid addicts
www.foxnews.com...

Obama administration to end use of private prisons
www.pbs.org...

President Obama grants early release to 61 more federal drug offenders
www.washingtonpost.com... -11e5-8b23-538270a1ca31_story.html

Barack Obama Grants Clemency to 58 Nonviolent Drug Offenders
blogs.wsj.com...

Apart from over-seeing an unprecedented move toward legalizing marijuana.

on SJWs...honestly not sure what it means...Wikipedia offers this..

"Social justice warrior" (commonly abbreviated SJW) is a pejorative term for an individual promoting socially progressive views; including feminism, civil rights, multiculturalism, political correctness, and identity politics.

The accusation of being an SJW carries implications of pursuing personal validation rather than any deep-seated conviction, and being engaged in disingenuous social justice arguments or activism to raise personal reputation.

The phrase originated in the late 20th century as a neutral or positive term for people engaged in social justice. During the Gamergate controversy, the negative connotation gained increased use, and was particularly aimed at those espousing views adhering to social liberalism, political correctness, or feminism

So...Some protestors are self-interested and don't really care about their cause?

Sure...

Does that mean that race, sexism, civil rights are not issues that people can protest about? Nonsense...

Your whole OP is confusing to me..

originally posted by: WhateverYouSay


Jill Stein is the only candidate campaigning for the pardoning of Edward Snowden, and she's as liberal as you can get.

Sidenote...when asked about a pardon for Snowden, the WH rightly pointed out that in order to receive a Pardon, you must first be convicted of something. Snowden has been charged, but not convicted.

Pres. Obama (and Jill Stein if elected) can not pardon someone that has not been convicted of a crime.

Snowden would have to return and go through the legal proceedings and the outcome before anyone could pardon him.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
What an underwhelming thread. We are here to discuss the DNC platform , yet its absent from the OP:

www.demconvention.com...

in case anyone is interested.

And instead of talking about points within the platform, instead we get vague and fuzzy insults against the party. Rather than wallow in that mud, here's a couple of elements that i take issue with and that might be worthy of discussion:

And we know t
hat our nation’s long struggle with race is far from over. More than half a century
after Rosa Parks sat and Dr. King marched and John Lewis bled, more than half a century after
César Chávez, Dolores Huerta, and Larry Itliong organized, race still plays a
significant role in
determining who gets ahead in America and who gets left behind. We must face that reality and
we must fix it.

This sounds like more "levelling the playing field" is planned. However, instead of doing this by backfilling the low parts, i expect we will continue lowering the higher parts.

Slow that down...you offered specifics, which I appreciate very much..but then you seem to be inventing the specifics.
That platform laid claim to acknowledging a continued race issue in the USA and called for equalizing opportunity.

Do you disagree with a level playing field? Having equal opportunity for all? Do you think we already have that?
All fair things to take issue with..

But you are proposing we level the field by reducing opportunity for those succeeding??? Or at least are claiming that is in the platform? Where? otherwise...stick to the actual platform...you can't invent a platform, then attack it.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

We believe in at last guara
nteeing equal pay for women.

No real argumet, so long as we recognize that the issue is less about legislating pay rates, and more about working to reduce the under representation of women in math/science fields, which are higher paying. Otherwise, this is simple pandering.

Not at all..Women make less across the board in all fields. It is a statistical reality and inherent bias of male dominated industries. What can be done? Well..it's improving on it's own, but where egregious there should be legal tools to intercede...I agree..it's pandering as far as "fixing it"...it is fixing itself with time and labor demand/supply and legal remedies are only useful in individual extreme cases.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

We believe
that Americans should earn at least $15 an hour

The ignorance in this statement is stupefying.

$15/hr is 2 complete worlds apart in NYC and Marfa, TX. In Marfa, TX $15/hr is a stellar income.

OK..But $5/hr is "worlds apart" in NYC and Marfa TX....$50/hr is "worlds apart" in NYC and Marfa TX.

Are you saying that pay is irrelevant?

Or would you admit there is a minimum that affords survival if someone is to work 40+ hours per week.

Someone making $15/hr in NYC would be struggling to survive. Perhaps they will move to Marfa TX?

Does that labor mobility already occur with the minimum wage?

$15/hr x 40 hour work week equals $600 per week...30K per year before withholding and taxes and assuming they get paid for holidays and take no days off work. What do you think the take home is in reality per annum?

Average income in Marfa TX is 42.5k

I don't see an issue with paying someone that is willing to work full-time enough to survive on...or even live well if they choose to move to Marfa TX.

BFFT:

Democrats support a m
odel employer executive order or some other vehicle to leverage federal
dollars to support employers who provide their workers with a living wage, good benefits, and
the opportunity to form a union without reprisal. The one trillion dollars spent annually
by the
government on contracts, loans, and grants should be used to support good jobs that rebuild the
middle class

Oh....so there it is. They are going to grow the middle class by paying the poorest people more. And support it all with tax dollars. No doubt funded by the increased income taxes gained by paying people more monopoly money.

Color me surprised.

Who are the poorest people in that statement?
Poor people are the quickest growing class in this country..as the middle class continues to shrink at an alarming rate.
As far as funding...did you read that? They are proposing re-routing funds given in grants to Businesses ..government sponsored loans etc. to companies that offer core benefits. Not new spending..

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Liberals? Excuse me...But, why the reference of "liberals." Is it for the reason most "conservatives" label everyone who does not support their candidates must be liberal? Not only is that assumption wrong, but it begs attention to the fact "you," like so many, are ripe for the picking. Here are some facts people like you refuse to accept. First of all, corruption multiplied by the power of 10 since Reagan. I'm somewhat sympathetic for Reagan for he was a stupid man and seduced into Nancy's social circles. His weakness was tested when he allowed their thinking to become policy in California. Once he gained their favor, he was rewarded with his ranch that he bought for 20 cents on the dollar. His acting career fizzled and to keep Nancy required he run with the fascists. The final analysis proves a stupid, and in love, man is dangerous when she demands allegiance to the power elite.

However, his attempt to keep some degree of decency by refusing George Bush as a running mate was dashed when the GOP insisted he does so or lose Wall Street backing. Reagan was stupid yet Bush was/is not. Bush, on the other hand, followed his father's steps and took advantage of his tenure at Yale as a member of Shull and Bones. Although not known by the public, Bush, with the aid of his father, Prescott, sought power and utilized his contacts in the CIA. Prescott was one of the main characters in the establishment of the CIA after Truman authorized its existence. The CIA, for all practical purposes, was managed by Wall Street elites. Allen Dulles, chairman, and senior partner of Sullivan and Cromwell Law Firm. His brother, John Foster Dulles was Secretary of State of Eisenhower's Admin. and was anti-Semitic yet anti-Nazi as well.

Allen worked with OSS (Office of Strategic Services) during WW-II, therefore, his experience with European Bankers and knowledge in spy craft earned his placement as Directer of the CIA in 1952. At this point, I'm sure you are asking what this means with the conservative cause. Good question. But to answer requires I must keep it brief. Thus, It will require you to research anything said in this rant if you care to debate.

Historical facts are necessary to understand the status-quo. 1) America's conservative element spearheaded the eugenics rage at the turn of the century. 2) Unethical practices of Wall Street Bankers caused the collapse of the economy in 1929. 3) The frustration of the lack of progress of gaining ground to eliminate the woes of the Depression required radical management that threatened Wall Street interests. 4) As a result, the American Liberty League of Wall St. sought to remedy the situation by a forced coup against FDR. 5) It was learned that Wall Street elitist admired the Fascist government of Italy and wanted to copy it America. 6) They were busted. Although no criminal charges resulted, their actions are a matter of record.

Although those facts bring questions, time does not allow answers at this point. Other than to say, what they failed to accomplish in "33," the power elite gained the same forty plus years ago. The Bush clan, from Prescott to present, has used their political clout and ambitions to secure this fascist establishment here at home. The Bush's involvement in the CIA is noteworthy and their ties with Wall Street elite and their goals is alarming. For instance, there is solid evidence to suggest that the prodigy of the New World Order, George H.W. Bush lied to the nation when asked about his involvement with the CIA. He stated he was only involved with the CIA when he was chosen to be the Director of the CIA in the seventies. Yet, there is evidence he worked with the CIA to lend assistance in the invasion of Cuba. Also, he lied in his placement on Nov. 22, 1963. He stated he can't remember where he was when Kennedy died. A memo signed J. Edger Hoover surfaced dated on Nov. 22, that a George H. W. Bush called the FBI with info on a suspect.

You need to face the facts that there is a rogue element in the govt. that was unknown by many, yet has a lot to do with our current situation. I see we are now the victims of a fascist police state that was ushered in by the "good-ole-boys" of Texas. We are too far down the rabbit hole to realize this was a shared goal by both parties, for Wall Street owns everybody in the system. But, one of the most effective means to gain public support was/is the propaganda utilized to create division. And, your "conservative" bastion are guilty as most in this fiasco. People are waking up every day and for you to assume people who sense the corruption of the GOP are merely liberals is asinine.

To assume my rant is nothing more than a rant based on incorrect info, be advised, I'm well equipped to debate and answer all questions associated with this rant. Too much data and too little time to address it correctly.

Liberal =/= necessarily Democrat. The assumption that liberal = necessarily democrat is part of the binary labeling that has destroyed much of the ability of people to converse with one another by throwing out all nuance and presuming affiliations which may not exist. Just like conservative = necessarily republican.

My two cents.

Peace.