'Poll': Rebuild Our Inner Cities OR 'Open the Floodgates' on Immigrants & Refugees?

a reply to: Ksihkehe

Umm, you know that the people you mentioned are also "the wealthy", right? And I specifically mentioned investment vehicles like hedge funds because the super wealthy take advantage of them more than anyone else. Offshore accounts also benefit people like them far more than they do anyone else, and they're usually legal.

And then there are different forms of income, like "capital gains", which are taxed at lower rates than direct income. Ever wonder why super rich CEOs may take $1 salaries or the equivalent (like this list of 11 CEOs in 2015)? They get their real money through stock options in their company, which are taxed at much lower rates.

For an example, they may also get stock options on 1 million of their company's stocks. This means they get the option to buy 1 million shares of their company's stock off the market. In theory, they can then sell those shares of stock on the market at a profit or at a loss, depending on if the company's stock price rises or falls. They justify this by saying it gives the CEO an incentive to increase their company's stock price. Sounds fair in theory, right?

However, they use something called "backdating" which means they can literally choose the price for that stock from whatever day they want, within a per-negotiated range. In short, if the stock is $20/share today but was $5/share 9 months ago, they can choose to buy 1 million stocks at the $5/share price (backdating) and then immediately resell the stock for $20/share today. This would earn then $15/share in profit for $15 million in income. This $15 million profit would then be taxed at a capital gains rate (20% in 2016) instead of at the 39.6% top income tax rate.

This is literally just one of a crapload of ways that the uber-wealthy end up paying less than their fair share of taxes. It's loopholes like this that need to be fixed if we're seriously going to try to fix our budget deficit. The same goes for other things like the artificially low cap on income that is taxable for Social Security.

ETA: Another way they doge their fair share of taxes is by "donating" their money to charitable non-profits that they or their families own . They can then use that money however they want, as long as they can justify it through their foundation (and it reduces the amount of taxes they owe). You don't really think Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates gave their wealth away do you?

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
To me, that kind of thinking is even more dangerous than this race war agenda crap.

. The dollar with 20 trillion in debt out there is stronger than the dollar with 10 trillion in debt, which is stronger than the dollar with 5 trillion in debt.

Paying down the debt is a very bad idea.

That's patently false.

In 1996, when the debt crossed 5 trillion, gold was at $369 per ounce.

in 2008, when the debt crossed 10 trillion, gold was at $869.75 per ounce

now, with the aggregate debt at 19+ trillion, gold is at $1,313.40 per ounce.

The ounce isn't getting any bigger--- the dollar is shrinking! printing money faster than the economy grows is the definition of diluting / devaluing the dollar.

Nothing could be more obvious. Your WHOLE ARGUMENT is backwards.

STMF

a reply to: enlightenedservant

We're mostly in agreement in that post.

It's just now its just so far gone is why without going 'radical' in the opposite direction, and get it back into something resembling 'reasonable territory', I just don't see how national politics can be dominated with "talks" of yet new burdens. Especially not when the debt isn't the only problem, we've got real on the ground suffering & tragedies en masse.

Before Obama was elected I wrote essay showing how on most every issue that "really" mattered (outside of stem cells type crap) he was Bush 2.0. After all that "CHANGE" he ran on, it blows my mind that Dem's aren't ready to 'burn the White House to to the ground with him in it' (that kind of attitude anyways).

I had expected that what has happened would (well I didnt see the PC Extremism coming), and that by now half the Dem's would be ready to 'tear down' the 2 party system like half the Rep's were post-Bush. This isn't hardly an issue of specific policies. We all should know by now most stuff goes the same regardless of what or who "has the reigns".

I hope these hacks / leaks might bring the people around, but I'm not sensing that yet. Very troubling. Rational people in the left need to figure out how to come together, separate from the crazies and get a new movement going (one that is able to compromise with the 'others' too). It's probably already too far gone, already lost. Without the left getting sanity back at the forefront there's no other way but collapse that I can see possible. I mean mandatory collapse, everyone go full tilt prepper / survivalist RIGHT NOW, kind of stuff.

Nothing can be rebuilt, or strengthened while we all are pushing ourselves further in debt by every dollar we spend, puts us there further and further.

The FIAT currency, and FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING are DESIGNED to turn us all in to DEBT SLAVES.

The National debt IS $20 TRILLION dollars BECAUSE we keep spending and having our currency managed by a third-party, the privately owned Federal Reserve (from here on out called "Central Bank").

First off, with a fiat currency, every dollar issues is issued with automatic debt. The first $1 you get, you already owe more on then you have to pay back. You will never be able to pay the debt back.

Fractional Reserve Banking takes that $1 you put in your savings account, and loans it out to 10 other people. So from $1 now you have $11 floating around, all with their OWN debt tied to the $1 that each of those people loaned from the bank.

Fiat currency isn't backed by anything, nothing, no gold, silver, nothing EXCEPT the faith the people put in the currency itself.

We might as well be using monopoly money, for all intents and purposes.

We also need to end the insane regulations on some of the industries that are forced by the EPA which is causing the cost of electricity and gas to go through the roof. So many regulations on manufacturing that it has a hard time existing in this state, it's too expensive, and too many regulations to actually operate. If there are no jobs creating stuff, there is no economy.

There are so many laws, regulations, licenses and red tape to go through to do ANYTHING. It's down right insane.

Everything the GOVERNMENT touches is intended to bleed the people dry, and make them DEPENDENT on the government for their very existence. That HAS to end, let the people be self-sustaining.

Set a flat tax, straight up flat tax on good purchased, and on businesses. Income-tax should be done away with, it's just another giant mess and another area the government looses money and man hours due to fraud and other activities.

You cannot expect anything to get better until you end the corruption and the over-regulation of EVERYTHING. Government is too bloated, and Central banks are making it worse. Throwing money at every problem will not fix it, it only makes it worse. You cannot rebuild something under these conditions, nor should you add more people to the mix.

Fix the system, then rebuild, and then allow more people to come legally participate. Our infrastructure is falling apart, the people have lost or are loosing hope, people are becoming desperate and there is no relief in site. The pain just keeps coming.

End the Fed, End fiat currencies, end fractional reserve banking. Make congress and the treasury do their job, and manage the money and its distribution. Give the people a reason to work, instead of slaving for someone else to get rich.

originally posted by: JDeLattre89
Build a wall large enough to put cities in and let the immigrants and refugees build the cities within.

Great more walls, that someone will definitely call for , on national TV, to be torn down. Seems like good spending . /sarc

originally posted by: redempsh

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
To me, that kind of thinking is even more dangerous than this race war agenda crap.

. The dollar with 20 trillion in debt out there is stronger than the dollar with 10 trillion in debt, which is stronger than the dollar with 5 trillion in debt.

Paying down the debt is a very bad idea.

That's patently false.

In 1996, when the debt crossed 5 trillion, gold was at $369 per ounce.

in 2008, when the debt crossed 10 trillion, gold was at $869.75 per ounce

now, with the aggregate debt at 19+ trillion, gold is at $1,313.40 per ounce.

The ounce isn't getting any bigger--- the dollar is shrinking! printing money faster than the economy grows is the definition of diluting / devaluing the dollar.

Nothing could be more obvious. Your WHOLE ARGUMENT is backwards.

STMF

Why measure it against the price of Gold? What real relevance does that have other than to show that the price of gold has increased?

In 1996 the US GDP was 10.5 trillion (approx) it is now 16.5.

a reply to: Aazadan

This is how to build a strong economic system???????

US Budget in 2011: $3,818,000,000,000

For the year 2011:

- The US Government's projected budget for year 2011 is $3,818,000,000,000.
- Of the total money shown above, the pile to the right in the amount of $1,645,000,000,000 is borrowed money.

No one in the world has as big of a salary as US Government, but it still borrows roughly 40% of the money it spends.
Source: CBO, GAO & USGovernmentSpending.com
demonocracy.info...

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Gotta love people who think keynesian economics will work.

That is part of what has us in the current situation, printing and creation of more money.

It is not that gold has gone UP in value, it is that the DOLLAR has gone DOWN in worth.

People wonder why groceries have gotten more expensive, it isn't that the apples are more precious then they were 10 years ago, it is that the money used to buy the apples is worth less, meaning it takes more of the currency to buy the same old plain apples you ate as a child.

In 1913 $1.00 = $1.00... 2016 $1.00 = $0.10..

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

FACT: The US is already NEARLY $2,000,000,000,000 in debt. The numbers are DAUNTING. Have you seen this: www.usdebtclock.org... ? I implore you to open that, and take a real good look. Just let it play for a good 10 minutes or so. Really study it as it goes. Let it sink in real deep. And then lets get real!

"The Costs of War: US Military Spending on Middle East Wars, Homeland Security Will Reach $4.79 Trillion in 2017: www.globalresearch.ca...

The above article was published September 9, 2016.

The U.S. Spends $35 Billion Helping Out The World… But Where Does All this Money Really Go?

The $35 Billion (in tax dollars) goes towards propping up its puppet regimes...

If we can't maintain stability here, how can we ensure the ability to help people here or anywhere else?

History has shown that America can't! This is why the U.S military industrial complex should pack up and go home so those trillions of dollars spent on wars can be used towards the issues you highlighted in your OP.

In the mean time, America can still do both: help refugees and rebuild inner cities.

America can start with the Flint Water Crisis since its a third world issue happening in a first world nation...

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
To me, that kind of thinking is even more dangerous than this race war agenda crap.

Here's the reason debt doesn't matter. With fiat currency, when you have the ability to create as much as you want, the only thing that matters is that people buy your bonds. If they're buying your bonds, it means they have faith in your currency. That faith in those bonds is then used to back other assets.

If you pay down the debt and get some of those bonds out of circulation, you not only start removing the foundation of what other assets are backed on, but you remove the instruments that are creating faith in our currency. The dollar with 20 trillion in debt out there is stronger than the dollar with 10 trillion in debt, which is stronger than the dollar with 5 trillion in debt.

So basically, paying down the debt not only removes assets from circulation, thereby shrinking the money supply, but it also makes that money supply more unstable.

Paying down the debt is a very bad idea.

Your one of the few that get this. People don't understand that bonds keep thr economy going and we could easily cash out those bonds. But it actually damages thr economy to do so. If people lose faith in the US econo my debt will decrease as no new bonds are sold.

a reply to: Involutionist

Flint Michigan water troubles was caused by bad decisions and had nothing to do with money. Well it did but nit in the way you think. In April 2012 flint city officials decided to change who supplies there drinking water at the time it was Detroit Water and Sewerage Department (DWSD). They decided they could save 200 million over 20 years on lower rates to residents. So they informed them of the change to Karegnondi Water Authority (KWA). So DWSD informed then they would terminate the contract on April 2013. Now to connect to KWA the city needed to build a pipeline to them. The project was started there were cost over runs and many delays. So April 2013 shows up and DWSD without a contract shut down the water. Well the geniuses running the city and thr governor I might add knew the contract was ending the pipeline was no where near ready so they decide to get there water from the flint river. So Flint River water starts flowing to the city on April 25 2013. There were allready concerns by the residents using river water but little did they know what would happen next.

They tested the river water and decided supposedly safe to drink. So Officials did not immediately treat the Flint River water to ensure it didn't cause corrosion in the pipes. As you can guess it did severe damage to the pipelines causing rust and corosion. By August dangerous levels of ecolI was discovered in the water which of course also at this point invaded the damaged pipes. So there bright idea use alot of chlorine but than comes thr next problem. This caused trihalomethanes which is what happens when chlorine is introduced to bacteria. Problem is it is a carcinogen. And this is where the EPS got involved because flint almost poisoned it's people. But this problem was resolved here comes the final kicker the severe damage and corosion in th pipes had resulted in lead leaching into the water supply so even now that the governor and city decided to return to DWSD now known as the grear lakes water authority and resigned a contract. But the damage has been done. The water pipes are all but unusable and the entire cities pipes need to be replaced. Not only the city but most of the residences as well.

So what caused flints problems citys and the governor trying to save money because they have destroyed there budget. To save there budget they tried to find a cheaper source of water. But in doing so cost the city the residents and the state far more than the 200 million they were trying to save. Moral of thr story don't vote a dumb @@@ in to office.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Let's "pretend" we can't have such cake (all of this together), and eat it to!

Right. Let's pretent not to be decent human beings and let's pretent tax heavens are no problem at all, or red tape mismanagement for that matter. It's just immigration we need to care about and muslims ... of course! Geez...

Biedermann und die Brandstifter (The Fire Raisers) was a great read, I reckon you never heard of that before?
Actual footage and some context:



Same with this thread, everything inside of me screams:
"Till, go away and put the fire out. It's just paper, goddammit!"

a reply to: redempsh

The gold price has nothing to do with the value of the dollar. It's mainly a reflection of gold production being down (around 2000 the US stopped most domestic gold mining due to environmental concerns), while the rest of the world is getting enough wealth to also buy it. Reduced supply + increased demand = higher price.

originally posted by: Aazadan
The gold price has nothing to do with the value of the dollar.

Your speaking in such ABSOLUTES screams that you're not so much the one to turn to on such matters.

Next you'll tell us that the ever increasing pricing on the property market and consumer goods has nothing to do with the value of the dollar.

a reply to: dragonridr

Thank you, for taking the time to respond in detail concerning the Flint Water Crisis, I appreciate it. My prior understanding was: it was caused due to poor decisions and a lack of proper infrastructure and government funding that created a third world issue in a first world nation. Your insight on the matter confirmed that and also clarified some misconceptions.

I mentioned it in my previous comment because I felt it tied into the theme of the OP. I found the idea of citizens across the nation donating water, money and their time to aid the people of Flint, absurd, despite doing so demonstrated an act of kindness. The fact that people *felt* the need to assist in such a way speaks volumes about the lack of faith they had in the U.S government to handle the crisis. The U.S tax dollars should of taken care of 100% of those needs *immediately* so the people didn't have to feel the need to do so themselves.

Moral of the story don't vote a dumb @@@ in to office.

I agree.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Remove all taxes.
Privatize most of government.
Privatize all prisons.
Privatize all police departments and fire departments.
Prisons are voluntarily funded(a service that is purchased/rented by the community. Prisons are ran by businesses or non-profits and not government.).
Fully privatize the federal reserve.
Allow multiple competing currencies(like bitcoin and other virtual curremcies).
Stop the endless wars.
Stop the drug wars.
Legalize all drugs.
Legalize gambling.
Legalize prostitution.
No victimless crime.
Congressional term limits.
Repeal corporate personhood.
Modify limited liability.
Allow voluntarily funded private social welfare programs.
Allow voluntarily funded private health care.
Allow voluntarily funded soup kitchens and homeless shelters.
Allow voluntarily funded mental health services.
Allow voluntarily funded reduced cost college(for people below the poverty line).
Allow voluntarily funded child day care.
Remove government involvement in marriage.

This would help greatly.