Trumps final tax plan. Take 3

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Yes, they still have to obey the laws, but they have broken the law by entering the country illegally.

Yes, they pay excise and privilege taxes, but they cannot pay US income tax without a SSN. They can't get a SSN because they are here illegally. Without a SSN or legal immigration papers, the US cannot even establish their identity. Therefore, they cannot be considered under the jurisdiction of a country that cannot even verify who they are.

The concept is similar to the concept of legal abetment. If I kill someone and hide from the law in your house with your knowledge and consent, you are guilty of aiding and abetting. I was under your jurisdiction, because by allowing me to hide, you accepted jurisdiction over me. If I hide in your house without your consent or knowledge, i.e., break in and crawl under your bed when you're not looking or break in and hold a gun in you while I hide, you are not guilty of any crime. I was not under your jurisdiction, because you did not accept jurisdiction over me.

A child born in the US to legal immigrants, legal tourists, or any other legal inhabitant (except those employed by foreign powers, i.e. ambassadors) is a natural-born US citizen. Their parents were here legally and subjected themselves to the jurisdiction of the US. A child born to illegal immigrants is not, according to the Constitution, a natural-born citizen because their parents did not subject themselves to the jurisdiction of the US.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: TheRedneck

They are still "subject to the jurisdiction thereof". They still have to obey other American laws, such as drug laws, traffic laws, etc. The very fact that they can be arrested and imprisoned shows that they are literally subject to American laws. Otherwise, our law enforcement couldn't arrest them because of jurisdiction issues (kind of like people who have diplomatic immunity).

And undocumented workers/"illegal immigrants" do pay taxes. I happen to live in a State with a Statewide sales tax. Every store here automatically adds the taxes onto our purchases, never once asking about a person's legal residence. And they still have to pay taxes on gasoline, "sin taxes" on things like tobacco and alcohol products, taxes on phone bills, taxes on utilities for wherever they're staying, etc.

In fact, a simple google search for "illegal immigrants pay taxes" will show that they pay billions in taxes yearly.

So doesn't everyone with a visitors visa that shops outside the duty free shops in the airports.

Sales tax is not their "fair share"

Two pages of comments and no one is even talking about his proposal.

In a nutshell, he is raising taxes on the poorest families and giving a tax cut to the richest.

Married Filing Jointly

• less than $18,550, tax rate increases from 10% to 12% - 2% increase
  
• $18,550 to $75,000 tax rate decreases from 15% to 12% - 3% decrease
  
• $75,000 to $151,900 tax rate stays the same - no change
  
• $151,900 to $231,450 tax rate decreases from 28% to 25% - 3% decrease
  
• $231,450 to $225,000, tax rate decreases from 33% to 25% - 8% decrease
  
• $225,000 to $413,350 tax rate stays the same - no change
  
• $413,350 to $466,950, tax rate decreases from 35% to 33% - 3% decrease
  
• more than $466,950, tax rate decreases from 39.6% to 33% - 6.6% decrease
  

How does anyone think this is a good plan?

a reply to: kruphix

That's what I was just looking at. Why are we taxing poor people anything at all?? If a single payer makes 24k or less they shouldn't be paying anything. 2k a month isn't sh*t and they really can't afford to be taxed on their income IMO.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: kruphix

That's what I was just looking at. Why are we taxing poor people anything at all?? If a single payer makes 24k or less they shouldn't be paying anything. 2k a month isn't sh*t and they really can't afford to be taxed on their income IMO.

Remember how the Republican Party at the federal level used to be against raising taxes? And how they campaigned relentlessly on the promise of constantly cutting taxes? Well, all of that went out of the window with the 2012 election cycle. Romney's campaign pushed the narrative that the poor were moochers who weren't paying their fair share, and that seems to have stuck.

So all they have to do is tell their base that they're simply doing this to "force moochers in inner cities to pay their fair share of taxes" and people will go along with it. Unfortunately at this point, it's not about the proposals anymore. It's all about the way they're presented.

a reply to: TheRedneck

That's not how jurisdiction works and we both know it. The only people on American soil who aren't "subject to the jurisdiction" are people with legal immunities (such as foreign diplomats, ambassadors, and leaders with diplomatic immunity). Those are the people who are here but aren't subject to our laws. If undocumented workers/"illegal immigrants" had that status, they wouldn't have to follow any of the laws that you just agreed they have to obey.

Here's a part of a wikipedia article on "Uses and abuses of diplomatic immunity". That's what it looks like when someone isn't subject to the laws of a country.

Or to put it another way, the 14th Amendment was ratified in 1868. So why are we only hearing your interpretation of it with this current election season if it were a valid interpretation? In other words, I think it's just a new narrative that's being used as part of the fearmongering in the current election cycle.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: stinkelbaum

he's going to deport "Americans"? I didn't know that.

According to the US Constitution's 14th Amendment, everyone born on US territory is a US citizen. Trump says that we have to get rid of this birthright citizenship and then ship out the children of illegal immigrants along with their parents. But the kids born here are already legally US citizens, which means he'd be shipping out the US citizens born to illegal immigrant parents. I don't know if that would constitute "millions" of Americans, but it would certainly be deporting Americans.

Which seems like a sensible thing to do if he manages to get the necessary laws changed.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Actually, that is how it works, and at least one of us knows it. If you want to get grammatical, there is no reason to include the phrase in the 14th Amendment if the only exception is that specified immediately afterward.

This interpretation is not new, and not just my interpretation. It is a legal definition that existed since before the country was started. It has only become an issue since the number of abuses has skyrocketed, and been ignored by both politicians and the MSM.

Jurisdiction in the legal sense concerning citizenship, is the acceptance of a governing body to the existence of a person within its borders and the acceptance of a person to dwell with those borders and be governed by the legitimate government. It is not sneaking into a country and hiding in the shadows. If you believe it is, try sneaking into Mexico, having a baby, and claiming citizenship for it.

TheRedneck

a reply to: kruphix

Deductions
The Trump plan will increase the standard deduction for joint filers to $30,000, from $12,600, and the standard deduction for single filers will be $15,000. The personal exemptions will be eliminated as will the head-of-household filing status.

Source: www.donaldjtrump.com...

The standard deduction more than doubles. The result is that no on in the lower tax bracket pays more. They all pay less.

TheRedneck

A child born to illegal immigrants is not, according to the Constitution, a natural-born citizen because their parents did not subject themselves to the jurisdiction of the US.

If only the government treated it this way. I too, echo the same argument.

a reply to: stinkelbaum

Still too much. Need to get rid of Obamacrap first. That is absolute highway robbery. Not to mention he is the last man standing against the TPP which is highway grand robbery.

Clinton gets in, she will usher in the TPP and Obamacare will stay. We will ALL be poor.

He can copy whatever he likes as long as he gets rid of those two nonsense robbing pieces of legislation.

A TIN (Tax Identification Number) can be requested by anyone.

Yes, undocumented workers do pay taxes ... in the billions.

a reply to: enlightenedservanthere is my plan charge a 4 cent per dollar on every sale nation wide and a 4 cent sales tax on everything sold on the stock market you will be surprised how much revenue comes in