U.S. Holds the World Record of Killings of Innocent Civilians

a reply to: Kharron

While I applaud your article and agree with many points made, there is much good that we do as well, and we must not forget this either.

Back during the Kosovo war, I worked for Northrop Grumman, and was deployed to Kosovo for three years with our Army Special Forces, acting as a political liaison and linguist. During that time, we worked with the engineers to build many elementary schools, many bridges and roads, mediated many meetings to bring two sides closer and we've even taken snowmobiles to a village on top of a mountain to help deliver a baby during a power outage at night.

Yes, many soldiers will be put in situations they may regret for the rest of their lives, but many will also have memories of helping people out and saving lives.

I feel you. Your comment reflects my beliefs about the brave men and women who serve in the military. I know most of their hearts are in the right place and there is much good they do as well -they may be naive, but they are sweet souls most of them. I also understand that many find themselves in very dangerous life and death situations and are forced to make decisions (forced to play a role) that will haunt them for the rest of their lives (PTSD). And, as you have stated, many will also find themselves participating in humanitarian ventures and doing much good for societies around the globe.

I have no qualms with those who serve in the military, they are just following orders, but I do often wish most will one day understand the Dalai Lama's words -the soldiers hold the power; not the think tank policy makers, private hedge-fund owners, and global industrialist. I also hope that people who are contemplating joining the military pause for a moment to reflect on the insight Master Sergeant Stan Goff shared in his 2007 video based on his own personal experiences as a member of the Special Forces: that they are not forced into conflict and sacrificed for humanitarian and democratic reasons, but instead for the selfish capitalistic and geopolitical agendas of the political and industrial elite.

I'm against what the military industrial complex exist for and what the soldiers stand (at attention) for: to be used as a pawn by the plutocracy to successfully accomplish their corrupt geopolitical objectives that satisfy transnational corporations interest through the use of the military industrial complex and manipulation of governments and media.

How many veterans are treated by the government after fulfilling their service speaks volumes about how expendable they are. The soldiers are very loyal and patriotic to the military industrial complex and government. However, that loyalty is often a one way street. Veterans have a higher rate of suicide when compared to the civilian population...

"The number of homeless Vietnam veterans today is greater than the number of soldiers who died during the war."

www.rollingstone.com...

The Department of Veterans Affairs doled out more than $142 million in bonuses to executives and employees for performance in 2014 even as scandals over veterans' health care and other issues racked the agency.

www.usatoday.com...

a reply to: searcherfortruth and a reply to: kurthall

The title of the thread should not take more precedence over the content (geopolitical implications).

A world-renowned Canadian philosopher argues that the United States holds the world record of illegal killings of unarmed civilians and extrajudicial detention and torturing of prisoners who are detained without trial.

In the article, he makes a strong case.

John McMurtry is a Professor Emeritus of Philosophy at the University of Guelph, Canada. In 2001, Prof. McMurtry was named a Fellow of the Royal Society of Canada for his outstanding contributions to the study of humanities and social sciences. His latest major works are his 15-year study, “The Cancer Stage of Capitalism: From Crisis to Cure” and three monumental volumes commissioned by UNESCO for its Encyclopedia of Life Support Systems entitled “Philosophy and World Problems.”

Prof. McMurtry is a world renown respected scholar - he's not some Alex Jones (Infowars) or Cenk Uygur (TYT) alternative news talking head.

Think we have to give the germans a little credit for this record. or napoleon.

I don't want to derail my own thread and I risk doing so by addressing your point. However, what I share here below is probably very redundant information on a site such as ATS. I'm sure there are quite a few threads in existence that can further elaborate and/or will lead one more deeper down the rabbit hole.

*American brothers, John and Allan Dulles (whom Dulles Air Force Base is named after) and whom John helped author the "Treaty of Versailles" among other treaties, and Alan, who became the first *civilian* Director of the CIA: their past should be researched beyond the superficial narrative (history) that has been sold.

*W. Averell Harriman, the son of railroad baron E. H. Harriman: his past should be researched beyond the superficial narrative (history) that has been sold.

*Samuel P. Bush, the American industrialist: his past should be researched beyond the superficial narrative (history) that has been sold.

*Montagu Norman who was the Governor of the Bank of England and his relationship with the American *owners* of the oldest private bank in America, Brown Brothers Harriman & Co: that companies past should be researched beyond the superficial narrative (history) that has been sold.

*George Herbert Walker, the wealthy American banker: his past should be researched beyond the superficial narrative (history) that has been sold.

There are few more American and European industrialist (iconic names) whose history will paint a clearer picture about who the Nazis were the goon squad for...

*Try to stay away from the cartoon and fringe conspiracy theories concerning this topic, instead read the actual (mind numbing/ boring on the surface) treaties and foriegn policy documents of the past along with understanding the dynamics involved with with political ideologies such as Bolshevism, Zionism, Meiji Restoration, etc; with a discerning mind to understand how capitalism has been the driving force behind wars.

I take it you associate Nazism only with Germany based on your comment? If you do: welcome to ATS, the site that denies ignorance.

According to the Canadian intellectual, the United States statesmen have long supported dictatorial and tyrannical regimes and even funded and armed the Nazi regime of Adolf Hitler in the period between 1939 and 1945.

The way it is stated in the quote, and even the way I framed it, is very cartoon. History is more complex and layered than that.

On Aug. 6, 1945, during World War II, the United States dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima, Japan. About 140,000people were killed or died within months when the American B-29 “Enola Gay” bombed Hiroshima on Aug. 6, 1945. Three days later, about 80,000 people died after the United States also bombed Nagasaki.

That is a total of 220, 000 people killed within THREE DAYS alone at the hands of America

Again: U.S. Holds the World Record of Killings of Innocent Civilians

www.globalresearch.ca...

a reply to: redchad

Out of interest! I would like to know how many deaths the AK47 is responsible for

Starred your comment for the laugh. The AK47 itself has never killed anybody. It's people who use them do...

a reply to: Shamrock6

Nam?

Get real. Posed no threat to anything of any ACTUAL importance, or American lives or the constitution. Could have been left well alone and should have been, just like Iraq, and Afghanistan.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Ah but we're not debating whether Vietnam should have been fought, are we? We're debating your statement that America has killed 20 million folks since World War Two, and that not one solitary person in the lot was from a country on par with America militarily of technologically.

When the goalposts stop moving, I'll get real

a reply to: Shamrock6

We're debating your statement that America has killed 20 million folks since World War Two, and that not one solitary person in the lot was from a country on par with America militarily of technologically.

In the link below, you will find a list of countries "37 Victim Nations" to which you can sort out which ones were on par with the mighty American military industrial complex...

I might use the following information for another thread - part 2 of this thread:

"US Has Killed More Than 20 Million People in 37 “Victim Nations” Since World War II": www.globalresearch.ca...

This study reveals that U.S. military forces were directly responsible for about 10 to 15 million deaths during the Korean and Vietnam Wars and the two Iraq Wars. The Korean War also includes Chinese deaths while the Vietnam War also includes fatalities in Cambodia and Laos.

The American public probably is not aware of these numbers and knows even less about the proxy wars for which the United States is also responsible. In the latter wars there were between nine and 14 million deaths in Afghanistan, Angola, Democratic Republic of the Congo, East Timor, Guatemala, Indonesia, Pakistan and Sudan.

But the victims are not just from big nations or one part of the world. The remaining deaths were in smaller ones which constitute over half the total number of nations. Virtually all parts of the world have been the target of U.S. intervention.

The overall conclusion reached is that the United States most likely has been responsible since WWII for the deaths of between 20 and 30 million people in wars and conflicts scattered over the world.

It is essential that Americans learn more about this topic so that they can begin to understand the pain that others feel. Someone once observed that the Germans during WWII “chose not to know.” We cannot allow history to say this about our country. The question posed above was “How many September 11ths has the United States caused in other nations since WWII?” The answer is: possibly 10,000.

a reply to: Involutionist

Thanks for reposting all that. Totally worthwhile exercise.

The statement was made that out of 20 million people killed by the US since the end of World War Two, not a single one of them was from a country that was anywhere near the power that the US was and is.

Since Soviets were killed by Americans on more than one occasion since the end of World War Two, that statement is false. Saying "fact" at the end of it doesn't make it a fact. Copying and pasting it doesn't make if a fact, either. Ignoring the question I asked doesn't reinforce the patently false statement.

In the interest of saving server space, if all you're going to do next is repost some more false information, I'll just go ahead and say "still false" now and save you the effort.

I can play repeater too, but it's not my favorite game.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Thanks for reposting all that. Totally worthwhile exercise.

You're welcome. It took two seconds do so. However, it takes much more energy and time to discern all the information presented in its proper context, which based on your comment, I assume you didn't do.

The second link was a different article from a different source (study and research from scholars) that backs up the first link (study and research from scholars) in my OP.

The statement was made that out of 20 million people killed by the US since the end of World War Two, not a single one of them was from a country that was anywhere near the power that the US was and is.

I know...

Since Soviets were killed by Americans on more than one occasion since the end of World War Two, that statement is false. Saying "fact" at the end of it doesn't make it a fact. Copying and pasting it doesn't make if a fact, either. Ignoring the question I asked doesn't reinforce the patently false statement.

Cool, you found ONE nation that fits your narrative and makes you *technically* correct. However, you climbed the signpost instead of following it (ignoring the overall geopolitical dynamics) and at the same time are using it to push back the goal post. To climb and push back the post instead of never following it reflects wilful ignorance.

In the interest of saving server space, if all you're going to do next is repost some more false information, I'll just go ahead and say "still false" now and save you the effort.

In the interest of denying ignorance, I will continue to post information from scholars and retired war veterans concerning the subject of crimes against humanity committed by the US military industrial complex - screw the server space ideology.

Btw, what gave you the impression it is false information that was presented?

Are you implying that Retired Special Forces Master Sergeant Stan Goff, who is American, is a full of crap liar? You did watch the short video right? The man spoke so calmly and sincerely from the heart. Please point out the false information being presented in the video below:



Are you also implying that Prof. McMurtry, who is a world renown respected scholar and "a Fellow of the Royal Society of Canada" (you do realize that is one of the highest honours bestowed in Canada?) is full of crap...?

John McMurtry is a Professor Emeritus of Philosophy at the University of Guelph, Canada. In 2001, Prof. McMurtry was named a Fellow of the Royal Society of Canada for his outstanding contributions to the study of humanities and social sciences. His latest major works are his 15-year study, “The Cancer Stage of Capitalism: From Crisis to Cure” and three monumental volumes commissioned by UNESCO for its Encyclopedia of Life Support Systems entitled “Philosophy and World Problems.”

I can play repeater too, but it's not my favorite game.

It seems spewing rhetoric is your favourite game instead...

Please point out the false information presented in the following two links as well:

www.globalresearch.ca...

www.globalresearch.ca...

a reply to: Shamrock6

What happened? Why so quiet all of the sudden...?

Again - Please point out the false information being presented in the video below:

a reply to: Involutionist

How juvenile of you. Next time, try the ol double dog dare. Maybe that'll work better. What happened is that I responded to another member about a claim that member had made that was erroneous and false. Then, point being made I stopped following the thread. Then what happened is that out of sheer boredom, I was browsing my replies inbox and stumbled across your playground antics. Then what happened is I felt compelled to explain "what happened."

Then what happened is I posted my explanation of my participation in the thread, and then I stopped, again, caring about your thread along with everybody else. And stopped following it, again. Very sad for you that it didn't you more attention, but I can't help that.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Next time, read the entire OP and the external information presented before debating another member's statement which reflected the theme of the OP. You are in this mess because you took the thread headline and his comment and formed a distorted narrative from that. It is thought poor to do so.

Then what happened is I posted my explanation of my participation in the thread, and then I stopped, again, caring about your thread along with everybody else. And stopped following it, again. Very sad for you that it didn't you more attention, but I can't help that.

This was a juvenile statement. I'm not here for flags, stars or to make friends. I have a real life outside of social media. I posted this thread to share the information. Now, whether it gets the attention or not it deserves, is of no concern to me. In fact, it does not surprise me at all...

originally posted by: Involutionist
a reply to: redchad

Out of interest! I would like to know how many deaths the AK47 is responsible for

Starred your comment for the laugh. The AK47 itself has never killed anybody. It's people who use them do...

That May be the case but If it wasn't for the AK47 a lot of innocent people would still be alive now. Just look at the recent Paris atrocities all killed by the AK47. It's an easy killing machine they couldn't have killed so many without it. Not many terrorists would try to take on so many people with only a knife or axe or else they would be doing it already.

a reply to: redchad

Just look at the recent Paris atrocities all killed by the AK47.

...or driving a semi-truck into a crowd of people watching fireworks in celebration of Bastille Day.

It's not the *weapons* used that is the crux of the problem - it's the ideology and geopolitical agendas that creates terrorism. Terrorism is perpetrated by factions such as ISIL and by governments such as U.S and NATO countries through "the act of war" on civilians.

a reply to: Involutionist

America's death toll on the world: 27,000,000++

originally posted by: Involutionist
a reply to: redchad

Just look at the recent Paris atrocities all killed by the AK47.

...or driving a semi-truck into a crowd of people watching fireworks in celebration of Bastille Day.

It's not the *weapons* used that is the crux of the problem - it's the ideology and geopolitical agendas that creates terrorism. Terrorism is perpetrated by factions such as ISIL and by governments such as U.S and NATO countries through "the act of war" on civilians.

You're correct it is the ideology but an assault weapon i.e. The AK is the terrorists weapon of choice I mean as bad as a truck is the chances are you're not going to escape. With the assault rifle not many are going to follow up after you. Take out the weapon and reduce the incidence of devastation. You're always going to get nutters but the AK47 makes it easy for them.