Official lies from Ashcroft

Oh thats right.... the United States Constitution has been bastardized to the point of uselessness.... I forgot.

Kinda like the kennedys & bushes

Originally posted by dragonrider
I should have full access to any and all sources of information for any research I find peaks my interest, without having to explain my motives to anyone, and without having my reading material evaluated for my personal "threat assessment"

They're not stopping you from getting access to information unless they use this database to censor.
But I don't see that to be in their interests.
They need to understand us to stay in power. Censorship would block this avenue of understanding.

There would also be far more advantages to studying our reading patterns as a society rather than as an individual. You might personally be on their database, but the information would only be useful if they can collate it with a lot of other profiles.

I remember a couple of months ago people from France and Germany insisting we live in some kind of equivalent to nazi Germany. I was laughing out loud on this end guys but realizing these people really believe this I held back my desire to respond to them as if they were fools.

DragonRider I do not see you as a fool but this whole matter of the Cabal (Cabbala being a term which defines Christian mysticism related to Jewish Mysticism Quabalah) not only from my experience at this site but as well from what I have observed personally. Has me wondering if the origins are not actually based upon those influences, which desire that everything be done to undermine this type of government (democracy/republic).


Now to begin our discussion I want to ask in what sense has the US constitution been Bastardized?

What are your thoughts?




[Edited on 22-6-2003 by Toltec]

Those things you speak of are nothing new to me. I can't say for sure but I wouldn't be suprised if my phones were tapped some time in the past. The point is that I don't have anything to fear. I could careless who watches me do what. God looks over my actions everyday. It sums up to one simple quote from Gyrffen's sig. That quote being, "What we do in live, echos in eternity." I live by that and therefore I am already aware of this All Seeing Eye. That eye doesn't bother me, and it shouldn't bother you either.

Dragonrider:

I don't see your point. What is the big deal???

You said it yourself. We are free to research all we want.

So why trip???

Is anyone stopping us???

No.

Get over it.



Abraham

Originally posted by dragonrider I have the right to read, research, browse, or investigate ANYTHING I wish, as guaranteed to me by the freedom of speech/freedom of the press per the United States Constitution.

Have you already taken into consideration how much the US Government has *already* violated the Constitution & continue to do so right under our very noses?

Originally posted by Toltec
Now to begin our discussion I want to ask in what sense has the US constitution been Bastardized?

For example, Congress has lost the Constitutional Right to "coin money & determine its value" since the formation of the Federal Reserve System...Furthermore, any legislation that has come out of the Government has been Unconstitutional since the time we've left Consitutional Republic into a Democracy. Any move that's been a move away from a Republic has been a violation of the Constitution & anything originating from a form of government that isn't Republic has been an Unconstitutional move. Any President that takes the oath to "uphold & defend the Constitution", yet supports anything other than a Constitutional Republic has been an oathbreaker.

What makes you think that they're *not* moving into a position to violate the Constitution even more?

Originally posted by Abraham Virtue
Is anyone stopping us???
No.
Get over it.

They haven't been stopping *you* or *me*...yet. But tell that to the people who've been wrongfully detained & jailed because of what such a database can tell the government about your "profile"...How many "suspects" have been recently jailed because of the broad powers outlined in the Homeland Security Act? How about the fact that, through the use of that very same document (that was ratified, by the way, without even being thoroughly read & debated by those who voted it into action), citizens can be stripped of their official citizenship for mere suspicion without any hard facts to back them up? How about the fact that, once stripped of your citizenship, you have *no* rights under *any* nationality & they can then procede to do *anything* to you & do it *legally*? No government should hold that kind of power over its people & according to the Constitution, they should not have even been allowed to draft such an act, let alone vote it into action.

Well, MidnightDStroyer beat me to the punch (by the way, Welcome back, and Where in the hell have you been???)

Toltec, in answer to your question:

There are NUMEROUS cases in which the constitution has already been violated, but in interest of time and space, I will pick one that does a good job of demonstrating my point.

Lets see, how about the new move by our government to label anyone even remotely connected to terrorism as an "enemy combatant". By doing so, this completely strips a US citizen of all rights granted under the constitution. No trial may ever be required.

An "enemy combatant" may now be held indeffinitely, incommunicado, no right to legal representation, no due process, no outside communication, with no publicly filed charges. The right to remain silent does not apply to these people, thereby meaning that all forms of coersion and likely torture can be employed on them in order to obtain any information or "confession" that the government wishes.

And exactly who is it that determines who is an "enemy combatant"? What criteria is used to label an otherwise normal American citizen as such? Hmmm... hard to say, as neither have ever been made public. Likely, it is made up as they go, so it could be ANYONE. This makes it 100% possible to strip constitutional rights from ANY American citizen at ANY time.

Please review this thread, as it is VERY appropriate to this discussion:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.state.de.us...

Actually the definition of an unlawfull combatant has been legaly defined and if you click on the above you will find it has been made public.

I would remind you, simply because it is defined in law doesnt make it constitutional.

Abraham Virtue
You said that if they approached Nazism you could smell it a mile away. WELL, I think you had better blow your nose so that you can smell it. This has been in progress for more than 40 years. 9/11 just made it move much faster. The Patriot Act undermines the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. The Patriot Act II makes the undermining stronger. You need to read the Patriot Act and Patriot Act II. You spoke of your ancestors and the Nazis, well you are being now what they were then, blind, deaf, and mute to the Nazis intentions, and you to the manipulation of the Constitution and Bill of Rights by those in power. The whole population better wake up and fight this PA / PA II before it is to late. Rights once taken away (forefitted) are nearly impossible to regain. READ IT FOR YOURSELF don't take anyones word for what it says.

DR do you think that what was done to Benedict Arnold Constitutional?

A report from the Terrorism Information Awareness program contains a major loophole that allows the government to data mine "everything under the sun" including medical and credit records, says the top Senate Democrat on privacy issues.
The report said the program to track terrorists will use information collected and analyzed that is "legally obtained and usable by the federal government under existing law."
Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon said vast amounts of data can be legally obtained, including consumer information purchased from private companies.
"That's basically everything under the sun, all kinds of stuff can be bought from private firms. All of that can be obtained legally, and that would just be some of it," Mr. Wyden said.
Congress mandated the report on the program � labeled by some critics as a "supersnoop" � that is under design by the Pentagon to track terrorists. The program became such a magnet of criticism from civil-liberty advocates that when the report came due May 20, the program's name was changed from Total Information Awareness to Terrorism Information Awareness (TIA).
"I will fight strongly the proposition that TIA will be used to analyze everything collected in a legal fashion. That loophole is so big you could drive five trucks through it," Mr. Wyden said.
The report was required under legislation authored by Mr. Wyden and also requires congressional approval before the program can use new technology.
In a letter yesterday to Anthony Tether, director of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, Mr. Wyden said the report failed to address numerous privacy and civil-liberty issues, including whether U.S. citizens will be used voluntarily or involuntarily when technologies are tested.
The program would collect personal information from driver's licenses, airline tickets, arrest reports, visas and work permits to analyze and predict terrorist attacks.

www.washtimes.com...

Originally posted by dragonrider
I would remind you, simply because it is defined in law doesnt make it constitutional.

Absolutely correct! Since the first day that the US government turned into a Democracy (& therefore stopped "defending & upholding" the Constutution's demand for a *Republic* form of government), then *any and all* laws that were ever legislated by such a Democratic government has been Unconstitutional right from the start.

Ashcroft can come and get me any time he wants for posting the most damning attacks on the cretinous, corrupt, deceitful, abominable, unlawful Bush administration. They are all here, all lined up.

The Patriot Act can be repealed in time, when these scumbags are removed from office.

Hang on, there's someone at the door.

Originally posted by Starwalker
Abraham Virtue
You said that if they approached Nazism you could smell it a mile away. WELL, I think you had better blow your nose so that you can smell it. This has been in progress for more than 40 years. 9/11 just made it move much faster. The Patriot Act undermines the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. The Patriot Act II makes the undermining stronger. You need to read the Patriot Act and Patriot Act II. You spoke of your ancestors and the Nazis, well you are being now what they were then, blind, deaf, and mute to the Nazis intentions, and you to the manipulation of the Constitution and Bill of Rights by those in power. The whole population better wake up and fight this PA / PA II before it is to late. Rights once taken away (forefitted) are nearly impossible to regain. READ IT FOR YOURSELF don't take anyones word for what it says.

As an Aquarian I change a whole lot. Since I wrote that post I have come to the belief that are government is run by Nazis. So forgive my ignorance, please. Now that they have shown their true face, I have seen the light.

However, I have found no source that can offer the Patriot Acts. Do you have them???

Welcome to 1984....

he cameras are already in place. The computer code is being developed at a dozen or more major companies and universities. And the trial runs have already been planned.

Everything is set for a new Pentagon program to become perhaps the federal government's widest reaching, most invasive mechanism yet for keeping us all under watch. Not in the far-off, dystopian future. But here, and soon.

The military is scheduled to issue contracts for Combat Zones That See, or CTS, as early as September. The first demonstration should take place before next summer, according to a spokesperson. Approach a checkpoint at Fort Belvoir, Virginia, during the test and CTS will spot you. Turn the wheel on this sprawling, 8,656-acre army encampment, and CTS will record your action. Your face and license plate will likely be matched to those on terrorist watch lists. Make a move considered suspicious, and CTS will instantly report you to the authorities.

Fort Belvoir is only the beginning for CTS. Its architects at the Pentagon say it will help protect our troops in cities like Baghdad, where for the past few weeks fleeting attackers have been picking off American fighters in ones and twos. But defense experts believe the surveillance effort has a second, more sinister, purpose: to keep entire cities under an omnipresent, unblinking eye.

www.villagevoice.com...

Just wonder if they are doing this here without telling us they are doing it???

Look on your cell phone and see if it has the unlocked padlock or the "!" symbol....

Mobile phone providers switched off their encryption systems for 24 hours on a government order, allowing the Federal Security Service and the police to eavesdrop on all calls.

An alert notifying callers that their conversations could be listened in on popped up on cellphones around Moscow at 9 p.m. Tuesday and lasted until 9 p.m. Wednesday on an order by the Communications Ministry. The alert, depending on the model of cellphone, is usually either an exclamation point or an unlocked padlock.

The Communications Ministry said it issued the order at the request of the Interior Ministry, Interfax reported Wednesday.

The Interior Ministry could not be reached for comment. The FSB refused to comment.

"The action taken to shut down the encryption system was conducted in accordance to the existing law and in order to prevent crimes," Mobile TeleSystems said in a statement Wednesday.

"All cellular operators provide technical support to law enforcement agencies as required under the law. We do not comment about the actions of the special services -- they do their work in the best interests of Moscow residents," Megafon said.

The decision to shut down encryption follows the double suicide bombings that killed 14 people at the Krylya rock festival Saturday. A cellphone was found on one of the female suicide bombers, and the FSB is examining its SIM card for clues as to whether the bombers coordinated the attack with accomplices, according to local media reports

www.themoscowtimes.com...

I have found a gap in the tourism industry : move libraries to the mexican and canadian borders and offer weekend trips to "free libraries".

This patriot act, duct tape alarms etc... seem so unreal, especially since the administration knows these are the first acts the next president is going to change. The only purpose would then be intimidation of opposition or stray thinkers ... ?

By ADAM LIPTAK


illiam Sheehan does not like the police. He expresses his views about what he calls police corruption in Washington State on his Web site, where he also posts lists of police officers' addresses, home phone numbers and Social Security numbers.

State officials say those postings expose officers and their families to danger and invite identity theft. But neither litigation nor legislation has stopped Mr. Sheehan, who promises to expand his site to include every police and corrections officer in the state by the end of the year.

Mr. Sheehan says he obtains the information lawfully, from voter registration, property, motor vehicle and other official records. But his provocative use of personal data raises questions about how the law should address the dissemination of accurate, publicly available information that is selected and made accessible in a way that may facilitate the invasion of privacy, computer crime, even violence.

Larry Erickson, executive director of the Washington Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs, says the organization's members are disturbed by Mr. Sheehan's site.

"Police officers go out at night," Mr. Erickson said, "they make people mad, and they leave their families behind."

The law generally draws no distinction between information that is nominally public but hard to obtain and information that can be fetched with an Internet search engine and a few keystrokes. The dispute over Mr. Sheehan's site is similar to a debate that has been heatedly taken up around the nation, about whether court records that are public in paper form should be freely available on the Internet.

www.nytimes.com...

We've always been at war with EastAsia. We've always been at war with EastAsia. We've always been at war with EastAsia.