Did Paul Invent Christianity?

a reply to: Seede

This is not meant to put you down, but you have a lot of extra biblical knowledge which does not mean anything.

Find the preserved word of God and believe that every word in it is true, and preserved just as God wanted it t be communicated to man even if there are some differences it does not matter God is the one in control not men and their opinions.

to many times man has tried to put everything in a box to make it all fit together, and all they do is mess it up. That is why there are 350 plus version of the bible in English, by design of the enemy to confuse an distract and keep men from the word of God and its truth.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Once you pick and choose what is God's word you become god in his place, deciding what is Gods words and what is not, therefore you are a wrong and God is true.

You do realize what books make up the bible was a human political decision, aided supposedly by the holy spirit, but formalized by a vote of bishops, and decreed to be the state religion by the pagan emperor Constantine, who incidentally did not become a christian until his deathbed confession witnessed only by his mother Helen.

The canon of scripture was decided and agreed upon a long time before Constantine, he had nothing to do with it.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Once you pick and choose what is God's word you become god in his place, deciding what is Gods words and what is not, therefore you are a wrong and God is true.

You do realize what books make up the bible was a human political decision, aided supposedly by the holy spirit, but formalized by a vote of bishops, and decreed to be the state religion by the pagan emperor Constantine, who incidentally did not become a christian until his deathbed confession witnessed only by his mother Helen.

The canon of scripture was decided and agreed upon a long time before Constantine, he had nothing to do with it.

There were hordes of books from Jewish Christians about the Apostles, almost all of the 12, that were left out because of bias against all things Jewish.

Rome despised Judaism and the anti Judaic rants of Paul were accepted by the Romans specifically to do away with Jewish customs and traditions.

The worship of the Messiah as God wasn't and isn't a Jewish tradition and no Jew would ever worship a man as God.

The first Christians knew that it was all mythology and could live with a miracle worker and even the ressurection as part of the New Covenant but never elevated Jesus to the position of God that has engrossed pagan Christianity for millennia.

The whole thing is a farce. There is no reality in the Jesus myth. the Jews who followed him as Messiah were marginalized and called heretics by the Romans who basically stole their religion and persecuted Judaism forever after up to today.

Constantine was the Emperor. Whether or not he decided what books were Canon is irrelevant. He called a council to define the religion IN PAGAN TERMS. That's why you have a Trinity (Egyptian) and multiple God's of Jewish exterior sealed up in old pagan mythology.

I personally think that any use of the word Canon and adherence to shows the degree of brainwashing people are susceptible to.

Were the men who eventually decided on Canon wise men? They thought they were.

I suggest you read the writings of the Ante-nicene Church Fathers and see how retarded they were compared to the man of average intelligence today they were retarded and prone to lying and ridicule.

Not much has changed. Christianity today is even less intelligent because they knew that they were dealing with mythology as did the Jews who used the Old Testament.

The fact that people read the Bible today as if it's factual history is worthy of ridicule on a level as mysterious as life itself. It's not intelligence that brings people to Christ or any kind of logic, reason or common sense.

It's ignorance of the fact that everything in that book is a story with a moral purpose and the end is Paul's ''defeat'' of Judaism and emergence as hero of Christianity.

The religion of PAUL, NOT Yeshua.
my When the ''Church Fathers" write about the New Testament, it's all about Paul, Paul, Paul.

The Jerusalem Church had no relation to the Romans Christianity of Paul. They were seperate religions and all the historical records indicate that the Ebionites and Nazarenes considered Paul an Apostate and enemy and had their own scriptures that have been preserved and are true Jewish Messianic writings with Jewish themes that weren't canonized because they weren't ''Pauline" compatible because Christianity is the religion of Paul using the story of the Jewish Messiah and turning him into a pagan god.

You would have to be a fool to LITERALLY believe that your religion is reality. It's one thing to read and admire the stories and believe in God and call yourself a Christian.

But when you actually believe that b.s. story actually happened...LOL you have been sold the world's biggest lie.

It's hilarious witnessing every Bible thumping Christian with no understanding of Judaism or the history of the development of Christianity other than what their Bible or Pastor or Priest tells them all accuse each other of not understanding when the book they are thumping is built on a foundation of hypocrisy and lies, backed up by forced conversion and murder for millennia in the name of Christ.

Paul never knew Jesus, Jesus isn't God and Paul was some angry nut job with a pen that some idiots thought ''let's make this a religion to defeat the Jews''

Centuries later people finally decide that this Jesus called Christ is also God and that there were 3 Gods who were 1 God, the Jewish God under Rome (New Babylon).

And people are actually arguing who has the best understanding, insulting each other's intelligence and harping in with fudged historical facts as if they are enlightened and know the truth while everyone who disagrees is lacking in understanding. Hilarious hypocrisy.

If you believe Jesus was born of a virgin, you don't understand nature. If you believe that the miracles in the New Testament weren't written for the specific purpose of ''proving" Jesus was the Messiah and think that of all the world's mythologies THIS ONE is ACTUALLY true:

You don't understand.

If you believe Paul was a prophet with valuable teachings from God:


You REALLY don't understand, and shouldn't be messing with religion because there is a difference between religion and history and:

No man has seen God. Believe whatever you want but calling each other stupid and arguing about your religion just shows how much Christians think talking about their ''faith'' makes them better than everyone else, even though the average Christian knows less about the Bible than I know about the city of Sacramento.

The most knowledgeable people about the Bible are people who don't believe it because they don't have the bias of a Christian and aren't ''required" to accept the nonsense as fact.

And of course Jews, because it's their culture and they value knowledge and intelligence and know how to interpret what the Bible is actually saying instead of just taking it on faith as history.

Reality is mythology can bring people together and establish cultural bonds.

And it can turn people into self loving idiots.

originally posted by: Malocchio

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Once you pick and choose what is God's word you become god in his place, deciding what is Gods words and what is not, therefore you are a wrong and God is true.

You do realize what books make up the bible was a human political decision, aided supposedly by the holy spirit, but formalized by a vote of bishops, and decreed to be the state religion by the pagan emperor Constantine, who incidentally did not become a christian until his deathbed confession witnessed only by his mother Helen.

The canon of scripture was decided and agreed upon a long time before Constantine, he had nothing to do with it.

There were hordes of books from Jewish Christians about the Apostles, almost all of the 12, that were left out because of bias against all things Jewish.

Rome despised Judaism and the anti Judaic rants of Paul where accepted by the Romans specifically to do away with Jewish customs and traditions.

The worship of the Messiah as God wasn't and isn't a Jewish tradition and no Jew would ever worship a man as God.

The first Christians knew that it was all mythology and could live with a miracle worker and even the ressurection as part of the New Covenant but never elevated Jesus to the position of God that has engrossed pagan Christianity for millennia.

The whole thing is a farce. There is no reality in the Jesus myth. the Jews who followed him as Messiah were marginalized and called heretics by the Romans who basically stole their religion and persecuted Judaism forever after up to today.

Constantine was the Emperor. Whether or not he decided what books were Canon is irrelevant. He called a council to define the religion IN PAGAN TERMS. That's why you have a Trinity (Egyptian) and multiple God's of Jewish exterior sealed up in old pagan mythology.

I personally think that any use of the word Canon and adherence to shows the degree of brainwashing people are susceptible to.

Were the men who eventually decided on Canon wise men? They thought they were.

I suggest you read the writings of the Ante-nicene Church Fathers and see how retarded they were compared to the man of average intelligence today they were retarded and prone to lying and ridicule.

Not much has changed. Christianity today is even less intelligent because they knew that they were dealing with mythology as did the Jews who used the Old Testament.

The fact that people read the Bible today as if it's factual history is worthy of ridicule on a level as mysterious as life itself. It's not intelligence that brings people to Christ or any kind of logic, reason or common sense.

It's ignorance of the fact that everything in that book is a story with a moral purpose and the end is Paul's ''defeat'' of Judaism and emergence as hero of Christianity.

The religion of PAUL, NOT Yeshua.
my When the ''Church Fathers" write about the New Testament, it's all about Paul, Paul, Paul.

The Jerusalem Church had no relation to the Romans Christianity of Paul. They were seperate religions and all the historical records indicate that the Ebionites and Nazarenes considered Paul an Apostate and enemy and had their own scriptures that have been preserved and are true Jewish Messianic writings with Jewish themes that weren't canonized because they weren't ''Pauline" compatible because Christianity is the religion of Paul using the story of the Jewish Messiah and turning him into a pagan god.

You would have to be a fool to LITERALLY believe that your religion is reality. It's one thing to read and admire the stories and believe in God and call yourself a Christian.

But when you actually believe that b.s. story actually happened...LOL you have been sold the world's biggest lie.

Very true...so very true. The only thing I do know, is I've encountered a GOOD entity that showed complete love for me. I hold a high respect for Jesus, though I don't believe He was "God in the flesh" anymore. He was a man, filled with the WORD of God. The REAL God. Being filled with the Word of God, does not make Him God....it just made Him special and able to show us who the real God was. I don't even think the true Most High has anything to do with this realm...until Jesus was born into it and allowed the Most High to show us Himself. It's all so convoluted, it's ridiculous. YWHW (if a real entity and not fabricated by the stolen Sumerian tales, is not good....by any stretch of the imagination. To try and make Jesus "YHWH" is crazy. Jesus was only the "Word made flesh"....meaning, He was filled with the WORD of the Most High. That's why when He spoke, it wasn't from Himself...it was from the Most High God. That's why Jesus contradicted YHWH constantly. The god the Jews followed was an imposter god who was evil. Jesus was sent by the Most High God to show everyone WHO HE REALLY WAS. THAT'S WHY Jesus was the WORD. Not because He was "God incarnate"...but because the Most High CHOSE Him to reveal Himself to mankind. It's that simple.

In the free world you can be anything that you want. Christianity began its domination by invading foreigners and forcing Catholicism on them with Constantine using the church as a tool for dominating the citizens of the world. The Church used Constantine for power and mutually the two were victorious over the ancient world from Europe to the Middle East and Egypt and all would convert or be an enemy of Rome.

No Pax Romano, this time it's Christ or death, exile, imprisonment or slavery for anyone who didn't believe Christ was God.

Ritually he just replaced Sol Invictus or the Unconquerable Sun, the God of all pagans who celebrate Dec 25 as the birthday of. Christ was the new Tammuz, Horus, Mithras and the Romans also previously had Saturnalia before the feast of Sol Invictus and worshipped every god under the sun from Minerva , Jupiter of Jove, Saturn(us), Mercury (Thoth), Isis and Horus/Tammuz/Mithra/Jesus

IHS

In this sign, I will conquer.

And conquer he did, convert in the name of Christ and ever since the Church has been a plague of cruelty. South America was not a naturally occurring Christian continent they were forced to convert , the bloodshed was unimaginable that would be shed under the cross, cruel tortures invented to get confessions. The crimes of the Church that are known make it a former terrorist organization and today it has its abuse victims still.

In the name of Christ.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Find the preserved word of God and believe that every word in it is true, and preserved just as God wanted it t be communicated to man even if there are some differences it does not matter God is the one in control not men and their opinions.

I thank you for the concern Chester and I know you mean well. The Apostles teach that we should always try the spirits and I have sought this particular subject out as best I can. I have sought the preserved word of God for many years but it is not available in literature. It is available in prayer and fasting but not with the books of men. I searched my library on this event and I cannot agree with you that Jesus had any part in this very important decision. Jesus has taught that as He shall leave this terrestrial world that the Most High would send His spirit to teach the truth and it is not being taught in over 300 different sources called bibles. If it takes mankind 300 different renditions of bibles then there are at the least 299 renditions that are not right. If any one at all is totally right it would be impossible to determine the correct one as we do not have the autographs.

I have also noted that the Holy Spirit fell upon the 120 in the upper room after the lots were cast and not before the lots were cast to replace Judas. This is what led me to question the entire method of replacing the apostle Judas in the first place. The Holy Spirit had no part in this event except by the desire of men and I believe you know as well as I know that prayers are not always the perfect will of God.

Regardless of this disagreement I thank you once more for your refreshing posts as I read them whenever I see them.
LOL

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Yes, two things especially that you mentioned are a major focus of mine. Jesus/Yeshua (the Logos) and the Most High God. Whenever one of the two is being written about it's something grand. The Old Testament uses The Most High/El Elyon in Hebrew a few times and it always has the feel of a higher being because El Elyon and Yahweh are different in old Hebrew.

In the Apocrypha is when the term appears the most in certain Apocalyptic era writings like Enoch. 3 Enoch has 70 names and 100 for Enoch/Metatron.

Christian Apocrypha is good.

Acts of Philip, Andrew, Andrew and Matthias, Bartholomew. Jesus shows up in several non Gnostic Jewish Christian Apocrypha and instructs the various Apostles sometimes hiding his appearance. Andrew recognized his speech but was cautious until realizing that Jesus was captain of the boat. Philip is put to death but he calls the power of God to cause the earth to swallow the people who nailed him to a stake and Jesus shows up to rebuke him, Philip repents and Jesus brings the people back up and Andrew ends up with some cannibals... It's crazy reading but it's unfair that these stories are left out and there is much more worthy material but anything that had Jewish origins was rejected unless it was one of four
gospels and a joke like Acts that featured mainly Paul making his writings the bulk of the New Testament and like 5% of the Bible and they are so bad and laced with anti Jewish fervor that you think Judaism is evil. But Jesus was a pacifist reformer and believed in absolute equality so his teachings hit the spot treating everything as a parable rather than obsessing over rituals that please no one and concentrating on the now as much as forever.

Christians are all in it for one reason and the same reason. Not being a Christian equals going to hell and they need to believe that they are definitely going to Heaven. Are you saved?

That's all they care about. Salvation, as if they would be condemned if they even believed different from what the church says.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Once you pick and choose what is God's word you become god in his place, deciding what is Gods words and what is not, therefore you are a wrong and God is true.

You do realize what books make up the bible was a human political decision, aided supposedly by the holy spirit, but formalized by a vote of bishops, and decreed to be the state religion by the pagan emperor Constantine, who incidentally did not become a christian until his deathbed confession witnessed only by his mother Helen.

The canon of scripture was decided and agreed upon a long time before Constantine, he had nothing to do with it.

The final canon wasn't decided on for a long time AFTER Constantine and different books like Shepherd of Hermas and the Catholic Apocrypha were a part of the first Bibles and Protestant Churches eventually removed many books that are still in Catholic Bibles today.

Clement of Alexandria quotes from the Gospel of Thomas calling it the Gospel of the Hebrews showing it was considered genuine and that some Apocrypha was in wide use until Athanasius. Others are mentioned like Gospel of Peter and Acts of Peter, teachings of Peter. Didascalia, letters of Clement the books of Enoch were all considered scripture until the law of Canon made censorship a rule and pulled all the extra books out of circulation.

They survived in Ethiopian and Slavonic, sometimes Greek and Latin. It had nothing to do with authenticity because all the Gospels were actually anonymous writings Rome chose the part that focuses not on Jesus or the Apostles or his family.

Paul, Paul, Paul, and his anti Jewish attitude got his writings canonized. Nobody even knows if they are legitimate or if Marcion wrote them himself and the Church added there own later but it was the writings of "Paul" that are the New Testament and the Gospels are basically Old Testament because Pauline theology was the favorite of Rome who avoided imitating Jesus because he's God now and faith in Paul's teachings is salvation.

Jesus is about the Kingdom of God with God as King of the earth and every man equal. He is biased against Samaritans in one story but he heals her for speaking wise so he wasn't just for Jews but he was Jewish and wanted a peaceful Judea.

That didn't take with all the Sicarii and Zealots and other Messiah's cropping up all the time Rome kicked all Jews out of Jerusalem and renamed the city after knocking down the Temple. The Nazarenes went to Pella or Syria or somewhere not Judea as Jews were basically at war with Rome but couldn't fight them off.

originally posted by: Malocchio


It's hilarious witnessing every Bible thumping Christian with no understanding of Judaism or the history of the development of Christianity other than what their Bible or Pastor or Priest tells them all accuse each other of not understanding when the book they are thumping is built on a foundation of hypocrisy and lies, backed up by forced conversion and murder for millennia in the name of Christ.

Paul never knew Jesus, Jesus isn't God and Paul was some angry nut job with a pen that some idiots thought ''let's make this a religion to defeat the Jews''

Centuries later people finally decide that this Jesus called Christ is also God and that there were 3 Gods who were 1 God, the Jewish God under Rome (New Babylon).

And people are actually arguing who has the best understanding, insulting each other's intelligence and harping in with fudged historical facts as if they are enlightened and know the truth while everyone who disagrees is lacking in understanding. Hilarious hypocrisy.

If you believe Jesus was born of a virgin, you don't understand nature. If you believe that the miracles in the New Testament weren't written for the specific purpose of ''proving" Jesus was the Messiah and think that of all the world's mythologies THIS ONE is ACTUALLY true:

You don't understand.

If you believe Paul was a prophet with valuable teachings from God:


You REALLY don't understand, and shouldn't be messing with religion because there is a difference between religion and history and:

No man has seen God. Believe whatever you want but calling each other stupid and arguing about your religion just shows how much Christians think talking about their ''faith'' makes them better than everyone else, even though the average Christian knows less about the Bible than I know about the city of Sacramento.

The most knowledgeable people about the Bible are people who don't believe it because they don't have the bias of a Christian and aren't ''required" to accept the nonsense as fact.

And of course Jews, because it's their culture and they value knowledge and intelligence and know how to interpret what the Bible is actually saying instead of just taking it on faith as history.

Reality is mythology can bring people together and establish cultural bonds.

And it can turn people into self loving idiots.

Which cracks me up...because you have "Seede" and "Chester John", who are BOTH fundamental Christians...arguing with one another. Yea, you nailed it, dude. It's all so ridiculous. I get called on the carpet by both of them, yet THEY can't even agree with one another...yet, they believe the "BOOK" is infallible. So, guess what? The "Book" they hold so dearly, causes division even amongst themselves. Guess they can't figure out how to "rightly divide the word of truth". If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny. And people wonder why I walked away from it all.
All the fundamentalists on here are not only prone to argue with us....but each other. Huh.

a reply to: Malocchio

Paul, Paul, Paul

THAT....is it in a nutshell. Christianity is all about Paul. I've been in too many churches. Paul trumps Jesus every time.
It's really sad.
To Mr. Seede.....it's not really about Matthias or Peter or "whatever". It's that you can't hear Jesus over Paul.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

No Jesus is the person Paul follows and we are encourages to do so too.

Me and Seede are not arguing. We are having a rational conversation.

And until you believe that God preserved his word you will continue to follow the Kingdom Gospel. and not obey any of the words you do not want.

You and Malochino have become god and decide what is God' word and what is not and lead people astray.

a reply to: Seede

It is not that hard. Only One bible fits the criteria and you must believe it or you will be at the whim of every false teaching that come around especially when it comes to the word of God

a reply to: ChesterJohn

And until you believe that God preserved his word you will continue to follow the Kingdom Gospel. and not obey any of the words you do not want.

Who taught the "Kingdom Gospel"? It was Jesus. Who taught "Christ crucified" and the "gospel of grace"? Paul.
The two are diametrically opposed.
So, you are saying to me that if I don't ignore Jesus and listen to Paul, then I'm ignoring the Father. Wow.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: ChesterJohn

And until you believe that God preserved his word you will continue to follow the Kingdom Gospel. and not obey any of the words you do not want.

Who taught the "Kingdom Gospel"? It was Jesus. Who taught "Christ crucified" and the "gospel of grace"? Paul.
The two are diametrically opposed.
So, you are saying to me that if I don't ignore Jesus and listen to Paul, then I'm ignoring the Father. Wow.

they only seem to oppose if you would learn to rightly divide you could figure it out. wrong gospel at the wrong time leads to anathema in this age. It is probably the only scripture of Paul you would quote to prove the kingdom gospel is the one Paul was speaking of.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

To Mr. Seede.....it's not really about Matthias or Peter or "whatever". It's that you can't hear Jesus over Paul.

My nature is not to defame you or anyone that disagrees with me and I do not resort to denigrating any one in anger. I have been wrong many times in my life and probably will continue that pattern as I have never proclaimed myself perfect. It is not the literature that is wrong but can be the mindset of those who read the literature who are can be wrong. That includes me as well as it also include you. Chester John was right in that he came to me in my understanding and gave me the truth. Not in anger nor bitterness but in truth and being concerned with truth.

Now judging a person is not very intelligent nor fair as you nor anyone truly knows the mind of another. Simon Peter cursed and lied that he knew not Jesus as Jesus was imprisoned and yet is reported as giving his very life for the Christ. Why then did you not the judge apostle Peter as you judge Paul? Both have sinned and both have died for the Christ Jesus. Have you been given the authority to determine one sin greater than another? You have not learned to forgive and yet what charge were you given to forgive anyone? Doesn't the Christ Jesus teach that you must judge yourself so that you will not be judged? What gives you the right to even judge a body of one or a body of many?

a reply to: Seede

Why then did you not the judge apostle Peter as you judge Paul? Both have sinned and both have died for the Christ Jesus.

The argument in many cases here is that Paul did not actually die... but escaped to solitude to live out the rest of his life in secret...

We do not know for absolute certainty that Paul was Beheaded as the only "early" account of said death was written at least 50 years after his death by Ignatius

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Seede

It is not that hard. Only One bible fits the criteria and you must believe it or you will be at the whim of every false teaching that come around especially when it comes to the word of God

But the bible is not 100% testament, as Paul's puts it. includes advice, Corinthians 8:8-10 "And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago".

So when in 1 Corinthians 4:15 Paul wrote, "Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel."

That advice is in direct contradiction, and one might argue egomaniacal, to Matthew 23:9, "do not call anyone on earth father, for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.".

I don't think this thread is trying to threaten your belief in Jesus but suggests that the entire NT is not gospel in itself. That the real gospel are the gospels of Mark and John which may date from the first century. So one might consider Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Colossians, Philippians, Philemon, and 1 Thessalonians points of view from a man that never met Jesus. If readers want to believe they are enlightened or not, that's up to them to decide.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Which cracks me up...because you have "Seede" and "Chester John", who are BOTH fundamental Christians.

I do not believe that I have ever claimed to be a fundamental Christian. I also believe that you have again judged people without a just cause. You neither know anything of me other than what I have posted of which I have repeatedly posted that I do not subscribe to any denomination or church authority other than the authority of the Christ Jesus. Now if the Christ Jesus was a fundamentalist then I too am a fundamentalist but to my knowledge there were no cults or religions that were considered fundamental till about the nineteenth century.

Even though I am not considered a fundamental Christian I would be proud if I were. Even the Apostles of Jesus had differences of opinions as that is being human and not perfect as some claim. If you are above fault then you are not truthful as there has been no living person other than the Christ Jesus who was ever without fault.
LOL

a reply to: Akragon

The argument in many cases here is that Paul did not actually die... but escaped to solitude to live out the rest of his life in secret... We do not know for absolute certainty that Paul was Beheaded as the only "early" account of said death was written at least 50 years after his death by Ignatius

Yes you are correct. The 29th chapter of Acts [which most all bibles do not have] will confirm what you have just said. There are some scholars who will accept Acts 29 and there are some that will not accept Acts 29. The Eth Cepher does have the 29th chapter of Acts while my other bibles do not have Acts 29th chapter.

Acts 29 relates that Paul indeed was released from Rome and continued to evangelize in Spain and returned to the place where Judas died. The last we hear of him was from Illyricum [Dalmatia] which was a Roman province at that time. Sometime around 79 CE. Nothing certain of the date.

The decision is yours to believe. Nevertheless the great evangelizing and giving of his life in no way distracts his love for the Christ Jesus. He gave his life for the Christ Jesus.