Round 1. FredT v.s. junior_smith: Canada

The topic for this debate is "Canada should remain a seperate state from U.S.A."

FredT will be arguing for this proposition and will open the debate.
junior_smith will argue against this proposition.

Each debater will have one opening statement each. This will be followed by 3 alternating replies each. There will then be one closing statement each and no rebuttal.

No post will be longer than 800 words and in the case of the closing statement no longer than 500 words. In the event of a debater posting more than the stated word limit then the excess words will be deleted by me from the bottom. Credits or references at the bottom do not count towards the word total.

Editing is Strictly forbidden. This means any editing, for any reason. Any edited posts will be completely deleted.

Excluding both the opening and closing statements only one image may be included in each post. No more than 5 references can be included at the bottom of each post. Opening and closing statements must not contain any images, and must have no more than 3 references.

Responses should be made within 24 hours, if people are late with their replies, they run the risk of forfeiting their reply and possibly the debate.

Judging will be done by an anonymous panel of 11 judges. After each debate is completed it will be locked and the judges will begin making their decision. Results will be posted by me as soon as a majority (6) is reached.

This debate is now open, good luck to both of you.

[edit on 22/1/05 by MacKiller]

I would like to start off by thanking MacKiller, my opponent theshadowknows, the judges, and ATS for allowing me to participate in this debate. Ever since its founding, Canada has remained a separate nation/state from the United States Of America. Despite its close proximity and tightly knitted ties, Canada and its citizens have developed a distinct identity, a distinct world view, and most importantly a sense of national pride. In light of this and other reasons I hope to make clear in this debate, I submit that Canada should remain separate from the United States.




Over the course of their history, Canadians have developed their own identity, their own conception of government and society and their own world perspective." (Pierre Elliot Trudeau)

Historical Perspectives and Influences
While the origins of the name Canada may be open for debate, the first European explorer of the area Jacques Cartier, used an Iroquois word ‘kanata” or village to describe the area he had encountered. Others point to the Spanish or Portuguese explorers who upon failing to find gold termed the area aca nada or cà nada literally meaning “here nothing”. Regardless of its origin, the countries original constitution in 1867, the Constitution Act, firmly proclaimed that the new land would be known as Canada.

If we wish to prevent the extension of this (US) influence, it can only be done by raising up for the North American colonist some nationality of his own; by elevating these small and unimportant communities into a society having some objects of a national importance; and by thus giving their inhabitants a country which they will be unwilling to see absorbed even into one more powerful." - Governor General of British North America Lord Durham (1839)

It can be argued in historical circles that Canada has its roots in developing an “non-American” nation in the post Revolutionary war period. Indeed loyalist to the British cause made their way to Canada in the post war period. Even before its formal declaration of sovereignty, Canada and Canadians have fostered, nurtured and embraced a separate identity to their neighbors to the south.


National Pride

Canadians have a strong sense of national identity. Indeed there is a certain pride amongst its citizens. Whatever their individual disagreement, they are Canadians first and foremost. This pride and sense of nation is best summed up in its national anthem “O Canada”

O Canada! Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North, strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

The pride is manifest and deeply rooted in their culture. It is no different than say the pride any citizen of the United States feels when discussing his country. How many of us would bristle at the suggestion that our country, our unique social identity, our sovereignty, be folded and incorporated into another nation, no matter what its size. Whatever mutual respect exists between the two nations, Canadians by and large have no desire to be part of the United States Of America, anymore than U.S. citizens would want to incorporate their country into Canada.

World Perception

Canadians are respected world wide. Indeed, part of that respect comes from their unique perspective and actions taken on the world stage. Many Americans travailing abroad will adopt a “Canadian” identity to deflect criticism of their owns countries policies and perceptions. Canadians on the other hand do not have to do the same. No doubt joining the United States as one or many states of the union, that well deserved international respect would be placed at risk.


These are but a few of the many reasons why Canada should and will remain a separate sovereign nation unto itself. The current close relationship between the two nations could be further expanded while keeping their unique identities intact. Even within the European Union, there is respect for each countries sovereignty, culture and identity. Indeed there is nothing that cannot be accomplished by expanding trade, reducing restrictions, and the like that would be gained by merging the two nations. Canada and the United States have historically maintained close ties. From trade to continental defense, the two countries often work together. No doubt my opponent will point out the large numbers of items that the two countries have in common. Indeed an American visitor will feel often at home with a lot of the day to day aspects of Canadian life. However, beneath this surface of similarity lies a sense of pride and being that is inherent to the Canadian spirit.

theshadowknows has dropped out of the debate.

Since it is so early in the debate, a new debater is being set-up.

Edit: Junior_Smith has taken TSK's position. Good Luck.

[edit on 22/1/05 by MacKiller]

It seems that this is a debate that isn't meant to be.

Debate closed, FredT advances to round two.