Big Brother : Overcoming the Opposition

For those of us obsessed with the Orwellian Premise, how many of us understand the implications, how many misconstrue the realities of life in Oceania?

What if Winston and Julia were simply one story amoungst millions of others?

How would your story end?

Perhaps, as an eventuality in making George Orwell's "Animal Farm" and "1984" mandatory reading for most students for over several decades, the story has been embedded in the minds of so many who simply couldn't put the book down and let it be, preferring to find a strange, perverse comfort in a paranoid world similar to that of Winston himself, has not '1984', in it's own way, become it's own Goldstein's Manual for the Modern Age?

I ask those who genuinely fear about the new manifestation of Big Brother in a world of surveillance and cameras wherever we look, it life really all that horrible? As a whole, when we really take stock of our lives, how intrusive is this mythological construct of paranoia and fearful mistrust?

Millions of people would deny the Orwellian State even exists, and go about their day to day without further thought or consideration.

But some continue to cling to an oppressive premise with fervent consideration and hostility.

Rightfully so, say some, who spend their days seeking proof and confirmation that there are untold evil's in the world at large.

So ye seek, so ye shall find.

Why so mad, Big Bro?

So, I'm just curious....how's the Surveillance State treating you?

ITEOTWAIFF.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
For those of us obsessed with the Orwellian Premise, how many of us understand the implications, how many misconstrue the realities of life in Oceania?

Why so mad, Big Bro?

So, I'm just curious....how's the Surveillance State treating you?

ITEOTWAIFF.

Why so mad, Big Bro? -

When governments do wrong by their people, they feel guilty, they fear the people will find out and hold them accountable.

Many govts in the world have been overthrown by the people because of their wrong doing towards the people.

The govts of today know this and are doing everything they can to stop us from over throwing them.

I fear we are all sliding down a funnel into a deep dark hole of tyranny from which it will take scores or hundreds of life times to emerge, if ever.

All its taken is a centrally controlled distraction device filled with content of no consequence.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

I value my privacy and don't like anything of my personal life being in the public eye. I don't like being filmed. I don't like being able to find my name and address on a website. I don't like people knowing my business. So, the answer to your question is I am not liking the surveillance state one bit. We don't need it and I don't want it.

a reply to: Azureblue

I fear we are all sliding down a funnel into a deep dark hole of tyranny from which it will take scores or hundreds of life times to emerge, if ever.

We're a tyrant away from disaster all the time. It only takes one to lead the USA, Canada, Australia, UK or NZ and the citizens will be seriously Fd. All that data they've got already.

German Stasi had like millions and millions of files on citizens and they rewarded snitching. They could blackmail, control, persecute, detain people. It was control and the NSA databases have something on everyone. One dictator or one totalitarian leader and all that data would be like a choke chain on us all.

PANOPTICON is always an elction away.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

But it's for your "safety" and "security". And what about the children? Why do you hate children?

Seriously, too many want Big Brother. You, OP, are in the minority.

Well, the less palpable (and palatable) truth is that we have willingly submitted our privacy in exchange for cool gadgets. The information age goes two ways-- we get, we give.

How many of us are walking around carrying tracking devices? What else do these devices store? Family pictures? "Private" letters?

Google likely knows as much about you as you do yourself-- fears, propensities, intellectual capabilities and proclivities, your health scares, income, how much you know and what you know about, whether you've cheated on your spouse, etc.

We've done it to ourselves. Not even Orwell could have predicted this reality.

Im not so concerned with privacy invasion....but with the freedom to chose a healthy lifestyle. Meaning that they are clearly poisoning us, dumbing us down through contaminated food, water, air, vaccinations...etc.

I don't need to be paranoid and I don't have to imagine things. I deal with demons on a daily basis, I couldn't live a normal life even if I tried. It seems I was never meant to, I never had a conscious choice.

The New World Order and the secret societies are only one aspect of this game, an exoteric aspect at that. This planet is under the control of dark forces.

If you know about this, you either succumb to apathy and acquiesce to evil or you challenge the system for the sake of yourself or humanity. And I'm too much of an asshole to care about humanity, humanity is the problem. I'm just mad at the assholes that are dragging me into tyranny with them. I have a big problem with that.

Apologies for my delay in posting.

Seems I didn't clarify my OP enough, some misconceptions concerning my intent.

I suppose my question stemmed more from the obsession some seem to have of projecting paranoid fantasies into a fictional protagonist. The more folks dwell on such an antagonist, the "more real" it seems to becomes and overrides all other rational sensibilities. Most here onsite have a pretty good grasp of what is worth focusing on and what isn't.

"Big Brother" is something most of us are familiar with, or at least, the concept thereof....it doesn't mean he's real. Yet some constantly evoke the Namesake while attaching their own paranoid fan-fiction, thus confusing the issue somewhat.

Connecting dots where none exist.

So I ask, what was your Goldstein's Manual?
How will your story end?

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

It's been hell on my wife and I both. Things were fine til
about 2007. Then by 2010 the bottom had fallen out for
both of us. Works been sparadic and being in So. Cal.
The illegal workers have had a real impact on the construction
trades. Friends and family tho and I don't want to go into to much
what alls been going on. But the wife and I are still good. And
tomorrow is almost here everyday. I married a sweetheart luckily.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

Hi there,

tbh, I'm kind of unclear as to where you stand on these matters, lol.

Being "watched" doesn't stop me from eating, pooping, sleeping, showering, working, paying bills, picking my nose, and etc.

Basically, you're still free to be human even with God watching.

I think 1984 shows us what direction we shouldn't go into, so it's a light in it's own way.

I don't mind surveillance.

I prefer the light and being in it... even if that means (gasp) being seen. Feels safer... as long as the eye is fair, and loving. And I know I've said it before and I'm repeating, but as long as it's the all seeing eye of a loving God and not the evil eye of Sauron... then I can't complain. Things aren't so bad, are they?

a reply to: geezlouise

This thread was supposed to be an exercise in imagination, but eh....most of my threads fail because apparently I can't communicate a premise for diddly.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

lol ily.

I like all of your contributions... and this one.

I only read 1984 once (recently actually, within the past year now?) but it was powerful enough to nest itself into my mind forever, lol. I still think about it often, to this day.

I'm a surrenderer.

If something is clearly bigger and stronger than me and I can't perceive a weakness or some opportune moment to strike back and escape? Then I just give into the situation, completely... I'm not a fighter in that regard. I'm not too stubborn. I'd also like to point out that I would never strike back unless I felt the chances of my survival were good. So how would my story end? Probably similar to theirs... I'd come out of the Ministry of Love with renewed patriotic fervor for Big Brother.

I may at times test the boundaries, to see how strong the thing is that seems to be holding me down... you suggested doing this before in a post of mine. We all do it naturally I think. And even though I surrender quickly... it's only after I've tested the boundaries and am convinced that the thing is stronger than me, whatever that thing is. But then after some time passes I always get curious again and want to see if things are in the same state. If I kept being met with violent assaults as a consequence to my curiosity, I do think I would stop eventually.

I feel like our environments act as a system of behavioral adjustment cues... and we're all constantly responding to it.

Our environment and the external world basically makes up the Ministry of Love. It surrounds us all the time, it's never-ending. So in a way, we're all really a bunch of Winstons and Julia's in 1984. But it's like a natural thing that happens... not necessarily evil, but it could be clearly. It's like a double edged sword, and we have to be really careful about it. Becoming aware of it is the first step.

I think you know all of this already. But I'm still gonna post this, lol.

In my day to day life over the last few decades, I have learned that time doesn't stand still and everything is constantly changing.

My response to you is this. Don't think about how your bank account is doing today while you have a great job with benefits and a nice retirement plan. Think about how bad it's going to suck if you just don't worry and be happy and all that goes away the day after you retire. Think it can't happen? Ask a Teamster.

Things can change. Authoritarians do not WANT to be opposed by effective measures. They WANT anyone who opposes them to seem to be crazy and paranoid people who are basically just stupid. To that end, they will actually ENCOURAGE these people to make fools of themselves and do things to make it seem like everything is going to be fine (Whistleblowers who aren't really blowing any whistles, for example).

You see. When you talk about a "conspiracy" what you are actually talking about is a plan. People plan things all the time. This is why so many things go according to plan. This is why stuff gets done. This is why your house exists. Someone planned to build a house that doesn't fall over the first time the wind blows. Because they say back and thought about it for a minute and said to themselves - "Selves. I think this house might need to be able to withstand a certain amount of wind."

Now every group of planners has a few fools and I'm sure the original fools in the group of planners who planned to build houses said "But look! There is NO WIND AT ALL! Why are you worried about wind that isn't there?" And of course the answer is simple. The weather changes. Now this is a common sense way to think about your questions as to why people worry about "Big Brother". Sure. He's not putting people in camps or whatever right this instant. Maybe he never will. Does that mean he'll never do anything that's gonna really suck if we keep giving him all the blank checks he can write?

Basically, this is all anyone is saying. It's going to really suck to be you if you don't think the weather can change and you decide your house doesn't need a roof because it never rains where you live.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

I agree with everything you've said.

But just like there's people who will claim that there's no wind, there are people who will say, "THE WIND WILL COME SO WHATS THE USE WE SHOULDNT EVEN TRY." So... but both are wrong, clearly. We can build a house with everything in mind. Just like you said. I believe these concepts were in mind when the constitution was written... certain elements of it, anyway. And even more so... with the idea that new things can come to mind, giving room for evolution of things.

And just because a weapon can be used against us (consider fire), it can also be used as a tool to benefit us (it cooks our food) and it can even protect us (scare away possible enemies). So instead of just utterly rejecting all newer notions of surveillance based on the possibility of changing weather and etc, maybe consider what it can do for us, too. Should we not use a tool because it can possibly be turned against us (like fire, or a gun), or should we just take extra precautions to prevent that corruption from ever happening... like making sure we're all equally subjected to surveillance, and making sure we're all free to bear arms, and etc.? Just like the house, there are ways to build things with weather changes in mind, to protect us from possible corruption, to make it harder for things to corrupt... and this is not any different.

I know that I for one feel safer when I see a sign that an area is being monitored when I'm alone in a dark parking lot late at night. As long as I believe that the eye watching would deliver fast and fair consequences within it's power if something ever did happen, then I am a fan of it.

originally posted by: geezlouise
a reply to: BrianFlanders

I agree with everything you've said.

Reading your post, it's clear that either you are confused or you're not being completely honest here. You sure don't sound like you agree with anything I said.

I know that I for one feel safer when I see a sign that an area is being monitored when I'm alone in a dark parking lot late at night. As long as I believe that the eye watching would deliver fast and fair consequences within it's power if something ever did happen, then I am a fan of it.

The airport doesn't belong to me. Putting a camera up in an airport is not a violation of my personal space. Spying on everything I say and do everywhere I go (even at home) is. I don't care what the excuse is. This is where we are headed and anyone who tries to make excuses for it is...well.....just making excuses. You can make excuses for being an invasive sociopath but you can't make me believe them.