Let's Talk Paradoxes!

originally posted by: Davg80
a reply to: namelesss
yes but are we part of an omniscient universal unconscious,

Gotta love those 'yes butts'! *__-
To me, 'unconscious' translates to personal ignorance.
'Knowledge' is what we experience/perceive this very moment!
'Ignorance' is everything in the Universe that we do 'not' perceive this very moment.
Being that here is One Universal Consciousness, ultimately, unconsciousness cannot exist within Consciousness.
"Consciousness is the ground of all being!" - Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics
One Universal ever Consciousness.
We call our own lack of 'vision' unconsciousness, but as the same Consciousness peeks from all eyes, other than as the 'appearance of unconsciousness' in the duality of 'thought'. There is always a feature of Consciousness, We unique Perspectives/Souls that perceive everything in existence, and that is everything!
Thus We are omniscient (and omnipresent); all is Known!
Just because I, as this momentary Perspective do not experience something, that doesn't mean that it isn't experienced and Known to Consciousness.
Some have better 'access' than others! *__-
You are almost right there;
We (Perspectives) are features of the omniscient Universal Consciousness.
There is no 'opposite' of Universal Truth/Reality.
Reality/Truth/the Universe is 'not' falsifiable! Only the illusions of 'thought' are falsifiable.
Thus;
"...scientists are condemned by their unexamined assumptions to study the nature of mirrors only by cataloging and investigating everything that mirrors can reflect. It is an endless process that never makes progress, that never reaches closure, that generates endless debate between those who have seen different reflected images, and whose enduring product is voluminous descriptions of particular phenomena." - The Adapted Mind

do we go there when we sleep or die...

We are Conscious of all features of Reality, whether our eyes are closed, or not!
"It is neither the eye that perceives 'light', nor the ear that perceives 'sound', nor the brain that perceives 'thought'!" - Book of Fudd
To even attempt to answer your question, I'd have to know what 'you' mean by 'we'?
You are asking "do "I" go there when I sleep?"
I'd have to know what you mean.
I understand that "I" am (like you) a unique Conscious Perspective (Soul) that exists for but a single timeless moment.
That I'm, Here, Now peeking through human eyes makes no difference at all to Who We Are!
That bodies arise and fall, get wet in the rain, etc... doesn't have any effect at all on Who We Are, Souls that perceive what we Perceive, from certain Perspective, the apparently passing parade of existence.
We are, in a sense, "In the world, but not of it!"
We identify with what we perceive, that is what 'thought' (ego) does/is).
Such (insane) identification leads to all sorts of 'beliefs' (insanity); 'bondage' to the 'apparently material', bondage to 'thoughts' and, hence, subject to 'life' and 'death', and all the rest of the 'duality' of 'thought'.

and are we independent consciousness when we leave the whole or are we only independent of the whole or unaware of it while we are in these human body's...

Depending on our 'Consciousness', we have more or less 'access' to Our Omniscient Self!
There is no 'independent anything, much less Consciousness!
All is One, ALL inclusive! *__-

tat tvam asi (en.wikipedia.org...)

a reply to: namelesss

so what your saying is that there is no unconscious and in fact it us that is unconscious of an all knowing conscious that is always present, i like this theory, i am thinking about it from a different angle know. i admit most of my pondering on this is from knowledge picked up from reading the psychological perspectives of Jung and Freud, i dont know if your aware of the Iceberg analogy of Freud so here it is..


i get what your saying though and it kinda makes more sense to me, on your perspective on this you would swap the unconscious with the conscious, which would leave us as unconscious beings of our omniscient and omnipresent consciousness that resides within us all, and maybe if we lift the veil of unconsciousness if you like we will become part of the whole..

a reply to: Davg80

What you are actually is beyond words, but it would be not untrue to say you are nothing whatsoever other than pure, infinite, disembodied consciousness/intelligence; a field of miraculous infinite light; God dreaming itself; an infinite point of pure potential; or the infinite implications of nothing whatsoever.

The immediate presentation of this unspeakable actuality is the field of your experience, which is an instantaneously appearing virtual field of Radiant Presence as apparent qualities. This is the actuality of which every/ and any/ thing that you think exists consists. This is inclusive and complete; nothing whatever other than this field exists. In short, the entirety of Reality is the "bubble" of YOUR experience, the field of Radiant Presence, which alone exists.

This is the totality of Reality. This is not theoretical, but is actually, immediately real; always the case right here right now.
theopendoorway.org...

a reply to: Itisnowagain

maybe that is the answer, i have been preaching a lot about the placebo and nocebo effect and how it is how we think that affects everything in our perceivable existence, maybe if i stop thinking of the Unconscious as being Unconscious then maybe it will become conscious, i think a lot of it as being unconscious but if i think of it this way then it will always be unconscious, i should maybe think of it as advanced consciousness.....

originally posted by: Davg80
a reply to: namelesss

so what your saying is that there is no unconscious and in fact it us that is unconscious of an all knowing conscious that is always present, i like this theory, i am thinking about it from a different angle know. i admit most of my pondering on this is from knowledge picked up from reading the psychological perspectives of Jung and Freud, i dont know if your aware of the Iceberg analogy of Freud so here it is..

i get what your saying though and it kinda makes more sense to me, on your perspective on this you would swap the unconscious with the conscious, which would leave us as unconscious beings of our omniscient and omnipresent consciousness that resides within us all, and maybe if we lift the veil of unconsciousness if you like we will become part of the whole..

Yes indeed. The greater the Consciousness, the more Self we experience.
Enlightenment = unconditional Love, One with all!
All that can ever be perceived/experienced by us all, or any Perspective, ever, is Self!
Not anything exists other than OneSelf!
Schizophrenia is the 'fragmentation' of that which is One!
To 'believe/identify' in the isolating 'duality' of 'thoughts', makes 'our world' a prison, isolated from the entirety of the Universe/Self!
Talk about 'fallen angels'...

And, speaking of Freud, when 'I' use the term 'ego', I am referring to all 'thought'!
An 'identity' forms in 'thought', distinct from other 'identities', and due to Perspective, we 'identify' with this figment of 'thought'. We take on it's form, it's limitations, it's character... which, in the duality of ego/thought, is unique from all other identities. And then this 'identity' has to be 'right', and another 'wrong'.
And then we act on it... insanity, violence, predation, destruction...
It takes God's ego that God might be Known by God/Reality/the Universe.
Ego isn't a 'bad' thing, as the religions are wont to declare, but 'believing' in it's illusions is most certainly insanity!

a reply to: Davg80
The thing is...........you cannot stop thinking!!
Thinking happens - no one is doing thinking. Thoughts are of the appearance - they appear - but to what?
What is happening (whatever it is - everything) is simply just happening.

originally posted by: HarryJoy

It means that we cannot think in absolutes..and also that we must accept that there are exceptions to every rule.

Is there an exception to the statement that there are exceptions to every rule?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

but if you can control and direct those thoughts, then the possibilities are endless..

a reply to: namelesss

i suppose we could say that all evils out there are manifestations of an original thought maybe that's another part truth from the story of original sin from the bible, maybe the original sin was the first thought of sin and not the actual action of sin (murder), that first thought of sin into the "advanced conscious" made evil accessible and then snowballed into what we have now, in a world where there is more negative stuff to perceive than positive it is of little wonder things are the way they are. but i suppose it is up to us to choose what we see..

originally posted by: Davg80
a reply to: Itisnowagain

but if you can control and direct those thoughts, then the possibilities are endless..

But there isn't anyone who can direct or control thoughts. Thoughts just happen - can you say what your next thought will be before it arises?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

yes but a thought can trigger a succession of other related thoughts along that wavelength, a stubbed toe in the morning could lead to a murder/suicide in the afternoon, im talking of the most extreme of instances here, but you know what i mean, instead of not being able to control impulse thoughts we should instead choose in how we see them, and how we can manipulate them to influence them into a chain of thinking that is beneficial to us..

a reply to: Davg80
That which thinks it is separate will always be seeking benefit for itself.
Please listen to this video.

There is a problem with thought - it believes in something which does not exist and this something (which is not) is it's prime concern.

originally posted by: Davg80
a reply to: namelesss
i suppose we could say that all evils out there...

All 'good' and all 'evil' (all duality) exists in the 'thoughts' of the beholder!
There is no 'good/evil' 'out there', there is no 'out there' out there!

are manifestations of... thought

Exactly! *__-

maybe that's another part truth from the story of original sin from the bible, maybe the original sin was the first thought of sin and not the actual action of sin (murder), that first thought of sin into the "advanced conscious" made evil accessible and then snowballed into what we have now,

The fruit of the 'Tree' is thought/duality, where all 'time' and 'space' and 'life' and 'death' exist! That is how 'death' arrives with dualistic thought.
IF we believe/identify what thoughts (ego) you perceive, then we become insane, and THAT'S from whence the madness in the world comes!
The bible enjoins us to NEVER believe our 'thoughts', and that "the 'heart' is deceitful above all things!" (Finally gets something right!)

in a world where there is more negative stuff to perceive than positive it is of little wonder things are the way they are. but i suppose it is up to us to choose what we see..

What we see 'out there' is a reflection of who and what we are!
A thief will live in a world of thieves!
One experiencing unconditional Love (Enlightenment) lives in a world of beautiful damaged hurting brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers.. and We are All One!
And there is no 'judgment'!
Beautiful, is what we Love!

tat tvam asi (en.wikipedia.org...)

a reply to: facedye

When we accept the two premises that I had mentioned earlier.. those being that there are no absolutes and that there is an exception to every rule... we will ultimately come to a core where righteousness and unrighteousness meet. where right and wrong come together and are reconciled where the whore is made into a virgin again. It is where we realize that mercy must triumph over judgment.... this is because love conquers all things.

If the rule is... that love conquers all things..then we cannot hold to the premise that there is an exception to every rule...because if we hold to that...then we will create a situation whereby some could become eternally lost. But when we realize that if we hold to it that there is an exception to every rule then we have made a rule of the exception itself. And therefore we must make a rule to which there is no exception. And that rule is...that love conquers all things.
That is why the Bible says that Christ will reconcile all things unto himself. That is how he was raised again from Hell. For as it is said he was made sin for us... and therefore made himself the unforgivable one. But when he realized the immutable way of love and of righteousness he was saved again from the pit.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Hi Dark Ghost....I am sorry for such a long delay in my response. I actually did not know you had asked me that question until this morning but I think it was meant to be. I say that because just yesterday. I had an epiphany occur.. regarding the very question that you asked.

The answer to the question you asked as to whether there can be an exception to the statement that there is an exception to every rule is absolutely YES ! ... There must be no exception to that rule...... because the statement itself create a paradox whereby the establishment of the rule is the breaking of the rule.. so that we must have a rule to which there is an exception... and then by making that rule we have also established an absolute.
I can only think of one rule that we could establish as an absolute that would lead to healing and restoration and not division and destruction and that rule is.... Love conquers all things.
So it would seem to me that it is by the establishment of the exception clause... that God has established the immutable law of love.