The Wall and Deportations, Something we arent Asking and They aren't Addressing

Well just the legal battles to build a wall would take years. They have not even been able to build a fence the entire way because a mix of legal problems and logistics. So much of it is so isolated you would have to build new roads, and work camps. The cost for this thing would be huge.

In 2006 Congress passed the secure fence act that set up 1.2 billion for funding for 700 miles. It was suppose to be a double chain link and barbed wire fences, with lighting and sensors. After 3 years a single layer fence was built for some of the 700 miles. The problem? To finish the would need another 4.8 billion. That is more than the border patrols budget. Congress never gave the funding because a 2007 study said that it would cost 49 billion to finish and maintain just that 700 miles of fencing.

So a wall is not going to happen.

As for deporting 11 million people, the problem is not just the massive amount of people you would need to gather them up, you would have to feed them, house them and secure them while they waited to go though and already massively overwhelmed court system.

Their is a reason these things have not been done before, massive costs and almost no positive results. And that does not even tackle the issue of who will do those jobs and how Americans will deal with higher costs of food and others things that would result.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm just saying that I could find dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands of 'experts' talking about what Trump is going to do. I am to the point of not believing any of them.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: MrSpad
Well just the legal battles to build a wall would take years. They have not even been able to build a fence the entire way because a mix of legal problems and logistics. So much of it is so isolated you would have to build new roads, and work camps. The cost for this thing would be huge.

In 2006 Congress passed the secure fence act that set up 1.2 billion for funding for 700 miles. It was suppose to be a double chain link and barbed wire fences, with lighting and sensors. After 3 years a single layer fence was built for some of the 700 miles. The problem? To finish the would need another 4.8 billion. That is more than the border patrols budget. Congress never gave the funding because a 2007 study said that it would cost 49 billion to finish and maintain just that 700 miles of fencing.

So a wall is not going to happen.

As for deporting 11 million people, the problem is not just the massive amount of people you would need to gather them up, you would have to feed them, house them and secure them while they waited to go though and already massively overwhelmed court system.

Their is a reason these things have not been done before, massive costs and almost no positive results. And that does not even tackle the issue of who will do those jobs and how Americans will deal with higher costs of food and others things that would result.

Building a wall is easy. Far greater things have been achieved by mankind.
As for it being difficult to deport illegals, you seem to be advocating that laws only matter if they are easy to enforce?

a reply to: luthier

Reagan broke his own rule. He trusted, but didn't verify.

Bottom line: we either enforce the border or we relinquish our sovereignty as a nation. There is no other choice.

Fix the border FIRST, and we can talk about your idea. It actually sounds decent. But border FIRST.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: UKTruth
America needs to invest in infrastructure. Why not offer non-offending illegals on welfare or working for cash off the books, the chance to work on infrastructure projects to earn a working visa? Tens of thousands of them could work on building the wall, for example, or roads, bridges, ...

It's already happening. As I drive around the American SW there are road improvement projects everywhere. The crews are predominately Hispanic. The contractors don't verify citizenship, work visas, etc...

Formalise it then as a way of bringing people out of the shadows and making illegals earn any benefits they get.

It has been formalized in the marketplace. The contractors make obscene profits paid for by the taxpayers and the illegals earn enough to eat and put a roof over their heads. That's why this whole WALL, illegal immigrants discussion is just pissin in the wind.

Capitalism....

Keeping with the theme, I'm investing in camera/surveillance contracting enterprises, I may even start my own LLC. Might as well profit from the coming fascist police state. Because that's exactly the American future as any halfassed futurist can see. No thanks....

They can send my dividend checks to some tropical paradise.. I'm blessed to be able to do just that.

a reply to: TheRedneck

What other country has massive walls besides the old east berlin?

Maybe a use of technology and drones, economic development aide (redirect from the middle east, we have an Iraq right next door), and backround checks and making workers legal.

If they continue to be absolutely desperate they will find a way over.

Ask yourself if you saw your kids starving and there was a way to sneak into cananda to make money doing honest work(besides the illegal immigration) would you let your kids starve? Especially if you knew they could hire you and a whole illegal system was present.

I do get where your coming from and you are being pretty reasonable. If your a tradesman i doubly get your frustration.

a reply to: luthier

I probably would take the chance.

But we're setting these people up for a life of slavery. They don't waltz across holding hands and singing "kumbaya" while songbirds chitter around their heads... they come across packed into vehicles like sardines by the Coyotes who took everything they had, just so they can be sold to illegal sweatshops or get turned out into the streets to survive without any legal protection, without knowing the language, and without a place to lay their heads.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: UKTruth
America needs to invest in infrastructure. Why not offer non-offending illegals on welfare or working for cash off the books, the chance to work on infrastructure projects to earn a working visa? Tens of thousands of them could work on building the wall, for example, or roads, bridges, ...

It's already happening. As I drive around the American SW there are road improvement projects everywhere. The crews are predominately Hispanic. The contractors don't verify citizenship, work visas, etc...

Formalise it then as a way of bringing people out of the shadows and making illegals earn any benefits they get.

It has been formalized in the marketplace. The contractors make obscene profits paid for by the taxpayers and the illegals earn enough to eat and put a roof over their heads.

Capitalism....

Keeping with the theme, I'm investing in camera/surveillance contracting enterprises, I may even start my own LLC. Might as well profit from the coming fascist police state.

They can send my dividend checks to some tropical paradise.. I'm blessed to be able to do just that.

You are already in the facsist police state. It's what many in the West are trying to end.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: UKTruth
America needs to invest in infrastructure. Why not offer non-offending illegals on welfare or working for cash off the books, the chance to work on infrastructure projects to earn a working visa? Tens of thousands of them could work on building the wall, for example, or roads, bridges, ...

It's already happening. As I drive around the American SW there are road improvement projects everywhere. The crews are predominately Hispanic. The contractors don't verify citizenship, work visas, etc...

Formalise it then as a way of bringing people out of the shadows and making illegals earn any benefits they get.

It has been formalized in the marketplace. The contractors make obscene profits paid for by the taxpayers and the illegals earn enough to eat and put a roof over their heads.

Capitalism....

Keeping with the theme, I'm investing in camera/surveillance contracting enterprises, I may even start my own LLC. Might as well profit from the coming fascist police state.

They can send my dividend checks to some tropical paradise.. I'm blessed to be able to do just that.

You are already in the facsist police state. It's what many in the West are trying to end.

No they aren't....I don't really give a **** who gets elected, Trump or Clinton, I'll be long gone....America is in a derp spiral and no amount of internet BS can save it. Thank God there are still places on this beautiful planet where people live and let live and mind their own goddamn business.

I have many military BIAs expat friends that can't imagine why I put up with this BS for so long.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: UKTruth
America needs to invest in infrastructure. Why not offer non-offending illegals on welfare or working for cash off the books, the chance to work on infrastructure projects to earn a working visa? Tens of thousands of them could work on building the wall, for example, or roads, bridges, ...

It's already happening. As I drive around the American SW there are road improvement projects everywhere. The crews are predominately Hispanic. The contractors don't verify citizenship, work visas, etc...

Formalise it then as a way of bringing people out of the shadows and making illegals earn any benefits they get.

It has been formalized in the marketplace. The contractors make obscene profits paid for by the taxpayers and the illegals earn enough to eat and put a roof over their heads.

Capitalism....

Keeping with the theme, I'm investing in camera/surveillance contracting enterprises, I may even start my own LLC. Might as well profit from the coming fascist police state.

They can send my dividend checks to some tropical paradise.. I'm blessed to be able to do just that.

You are already in the facsist police state. It's what many in the West are trying to end.

No they aren't....I don't really give a **** who gets elected, Trump or Clinton, I'll be long gone....America is in a derp spiral and no amount of internet BS can save it. Thank God there are still places on this beautiful planet where people live and let live and mind their own goddamn business.

Please let me know where that is - I might join you.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I agree. Which is why they should be made legal and come down with severe punishment for employers. Once the sytem is fair. Right now you can barely get by as contractor without hiring illegals. They are all the way up in Maine now.

I used to go to job sites with no toilets or porta cans to install cabinets. I learned real quick not to open any five gallon buckets even if i needed a little joint compound.

I was a journey who apprenticed and moving to texas was a real let down as far as the trades being treated as any kind of life for me there. I found a niche but I also had to take a lot of risk being a sub.

a reply to: olaru12

Let me know too.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: UKTruth
America needs to invest in infrastructure. Why not offer non-offending illegals on welfare or working for cash off the books, the chance to work on infrastructure projects to earn a working visa? Tens of thousands of them could work on building the wall, for example, or roads, bridges, ...

It's already happening. As I drive around the American SW there are road improvement projects everywhere. The crews are predominately Hispanic. The contractors don't verify citizenship, work visas, etc...

Formalise it then as a way of bringing people out of the shadows and making illegals earn any benefits they get.

It has been formalized in the marketplace. The contractors make obscene profits paid for by the taxpayers and the illegals earn enough to eat and put a roof over their heads.

Capitalism....

Keeping with the theme, I'm investing in camera/surveillance contracting enterprises, I may even start my own LLC. Might as well profit from the coming fascist police state.

They can send my dividend checks to some tropical paradise.. I'm blessed to be able to do just that.

You are already in the facsist police state. It's what many in the West are trying to end.

No they aren't....I don't really give a **** who gets elected, Trump or Clinton, I'll be long gone....America is in a derp spiral and no amount of internet BS can save it. Thank God there are still places on this beautiful planet where people live and let live and mind their own goddamn business.

Please let me know where that is - I might join you.

Claro, habla usted Espanol?

The conservatives hatred of Mexico and all thing Hispanic is astonishing. Perhaps thats a blessing..... You can find me at the 19th hole.....


www.youtube.com...

a reply to: luthier

The issue is, if we do fix the problem as you say without closing the border, it will entice others to come. The Coyotes will use that as advertising, like they did before. We would be pouring water in an overheated car with the radiator hose split in half.

Close border, then and only then fix immigration.

TheRedneck

no
However, learning the language would be a priority and a small price to pay to live in freedom with no one bothering me.
That looks sweet by the way.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Why would they come if they cant get a job? The legal ones obviously need to show they have a job.

Thats what i meant about drones and tech though. More surveillance and the ability to move on the situations with appropriate man power. Maybe some drone tazers. J/K

Also working on deals with Mexico. We deal more with immoral Saudi's than our direct neighbors. We also need diplomacy with mexico so they have some incentive to do their own enforcement as well.

A wall is impractical and scalable.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: TheRedneck




A wall is impractical and scalable.

It's astonishing the naivete of Donald supporters, not to consider that a ladder you can buy at Home depot can get you over Trumps wall.

Yes they have Home Depot's in Mexico....

www.nytimes.com...

Trump isn't stupid, he knows this. THE WALL is just an icon that Trump uses to snare the LIVs. There will be no wall. It's just an imaginary graphic device used to get propaganda across to the gullible.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: MrSpad
Well just the legal battles to build a wall would take years. They have not even been able to build a fence the entire way because a mix of legal problems and logistics. So much of it is so isolated you would have to build new roads, and work camps. The cost for this thing would be huge.

In 2006 Congress passed the secure fence act that set up 1.2 billion for funding for 700 miles. It was suppose to be a double chain link and barbed wire fences, with lighting and sensors. After 3 years a single layer fence was built for some of the 700 miles. The problem? To finish the would need another 4.8 billion. That is more than the border patrols budget. Congress never gave the funding because a 2007 study said that it would cost 49 billion to finish and maintain just that 700 miles of fencing.

So a wall is not going to happen.

As for deporting 11 million people, the problem is not just the massive amount of people you would need to gather them up, you would have to feed them, house them and secure them while they waited to go though and already massively overwhelmed court system.

Their is a reason these things have not been done before, massive costs and almost no positive results. And that does not even tackle the issue of who will do those jobs and how Americans will deal with higher costs of food and others things that would result.

Building a wall is easy. Far greater things have been achieved by mankind.
As for it being difficult to deport illegals, you seem to be advocating that laws only matter if they are easy to enforce?

Oh it could be done but, if your looking at 49 billion for 700 miles of fence to built and maintained for 25 years imagine the cost of a wall double the length. Parts of that border go through a National park the size of Delaware. No infrastructure to build a wall, it would all have to be built roads, work camps etc. And that is the same problem with most of the border. Lakes, mountains, crazy terrain all of that is why the cost for the fence sky rocketed and it could not be completed. All for a wall that will do almost nothing. Half of illegals enters by visa on a plane, most of the rest come right through the border check points either hidden, with fake paper work or payed off border guards. The wall would be just a big of failure and waste of money as the Great Wall of China.

As for being able to deport 11 million illegals? We have about 1 million Federal, State and local law enforcement officers of all kinds in the US. Even if all of them stopped doing their jobs and just went after illegals what would they do with them? They have to go through courts to be deported, the courts can not deal with what they have already so toss cases out unless they have committed a crime. You can have a law but, if you do not have the ability to enforce it, you need a new solution.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Here's a question. If walls are so economically beneficial, and such a good system of security... why have the border states not taken it upon themselves to build one? It's not something they need the federal governments permission to do, and even if they did... Congress has already given permission for a wall (and even built much of it). The states could finish it if they really wanted to.

If you make it more difficult to travel on ground, they will arrive more often in tunnels, boats, and by air. A wall is an absurd idea, regardless of it's feasibility to be constructed.