Chuck Yeager disavows fifth generation fighters.

a reply to: roguetechie

Oh so th ef-35 cant vector like that huh? AH well. And more often than not that manuver in top gun will get you BOTH killed.

a reply to: yuppa

Lol exactly...

Now I've been doodling up my wishlist version of a joint strike fighter the way I think it should be built, and it would definitely allow that sort of vectored thrust hijinks.

Problem is I must have left that billion dollars i set aside for development iin my other pants and the wife bought coffee with it or something because i can't find it anywhere.

Put it this way.

An F-35 has approximately 43,000 lbs of thrust and in combat configuration will weigh approximately 40,000 lbs. That means excluding the force of gravity pulling the aircraft to earth and drag, the upper limit of F-35 acceleration due to engine power alone is approximately 1 G (9.8 ms^(-2)). While hovering, if the F-35 wishes to maneuver, then it can't do much, because most that thrust will be going to simply keeping the aircraft in a hover. (Aside: I doubt the F-35 has enough thrust to hover at high altitude...).

In contrast, most modern fighter aircraft while turning like a conventional aircraft, including the F-35, can pull 9 G instantaneously by bleeding off airspeed and at least 4 G sustained. Of course, both these figures vary depending on aircraft, altitude, and configuration. An F-16 without external stores for example can sustain 9 G at low altitude. Speed also allows an aircraft to get from A to B quickly.

Picture this. Aircraft A and Aircraft B are flying directly towards each other at high speed. Aircraft A fires a missile at maximum missile range. Aircraft B detects the launch, turns 90 degrees at 9 G, then quickly regains high speed. The missile will then not have enough energy to reach Aircraft B because it now must turn (bleeding energy) and the distance it must fly has also increased.

Or alternatively picture Aircraft A flying at high speed towards Aircraft B. Aircraft B is at low speed and can only change direction at 1 G. The missiles on Aircraft A can fly further than those on Aircraft B, because Aircraft A is moving. Aircraft B cannot change direction very fast. Aircraft B is destroyed.

Some other thoughts:
- The lift fan door is probably not designed for high speed.
- Fastest way to decelerate an F-35 would probably be to pull the throttle back and pull as many G as possible, with the speed-brake engaged.
- The F-35 by all accounts has excellent nose-pointing ability.

Hhhmm not the first Jet that can do vector changes..

a reply to: aholic

The general also thinks Pakistan won the 1971 war.
Chuck Yeager: Supersonic Man’s dogfight with India

flip.it...

a reply to: yuppa

Im just talking about a high speed deceleration if you have a bogey on your six close enough to make him overshoot if you tap the brakes so to speak.

Top Cruise much? ACM is three dimensional and putting on the brakes is death. Speed is life.

If you are on someone's six and they suddenly bleed energy you go vertical conserving your energy, then zoom in on him while he wallows.

a reply to: Phage

It's actually a trick that some F-35 pilots have used to good advantage. They say the acceleration/deceleration is really good on the production aircraft. So they've been known to rapidly decelerate the A model, generate an overshoot, then quickly accelerate and go on the offensive.

a reply to: Zaphod58

And the bandit doesn't go vertical?
Odd. I wonder why not.

a reply to: Phage

Basic BFM is sometimes done at fairly close range. Usually closer than you'll see in real combat. It let's you try new tactics and get a feel for what you can and can't do, and in the case of a student pilot, let's the instructor keep an eye on him in case he gets in trouble.

a reply to: Zaphod58

If the bandit can avoid a collision, why can't he go vertical?

Or does the scenario not allow it?

a reply to: Phage

From what I've read, even if he goes vertical, with the nose pointing ability and acceleration in the -35, he's going to end up defensive.

Basically he goes vertical, the F-35 can get a HOBS AIM-9X shot off, or points the nose towards him and gets a shot off.

a reply to: Zaphod58
If it's that quick on the rotation that would make sense. But not actually an overshoot then, just out turning the bandit. Not really turning though, either.

But as you say, the idea would be that there wouldn't be even a WVR encounter much less a knife fight.

Best defence against a missile shot is a sharp turn into the missile track hoping to close and defeat the angle.For basic ACM that Boelcke taught it only rings true for gun range today..HOB shots have changed that a bit now.

Wow, Chuck Yeager. There's a name I haven't heard for a few decades.

Has anyone told him he's not actually a thing anymore?