The Fermi Paradox and the "Prime Directive" (where are they?)

The Prime Directive simply is NOT workable nor should it be used.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
The Prime Directive simply is NOT workable nor should it be used.

What do you mean? Can you elaborate?

It must exist.

If faster than light travel is possible, and all the evidence we have regarding the UFO phenomenon and public record documents (MJ 12) suggest in no uncertain terms that it must be

Then here is why there simply must be a "Prime Directive" of some sort..

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

It is the product of ONLY logic.
No such law could stand,it's far too simplistic and could obstruct a dangerous situation.
ALL one can do is train the leaders correctly so they know what to do out there and can think for themselves or get better candidates.
Grays and their hybrid program would seem a service to self prime directive.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Do you think they would step in and intervene in the event of a global nuclear war?

Do you think they protect us from meteors?

By Prime Directive, I mean to explain why we are not interacting with them overtly, but then again, that doesn't mean to say that interaction or as you point out DNA harvesting might not have taken place.

It's interesting though that the sky isn't filled with them where seeing them coming and going is commonplace.

If there is evidence of aliens and FTL interstellar or intergalactic travel, and if they're making jumps through mapped hyperspace or some such thing to nullify space and time they could just as easily be coming from another galaxy, then there are numerous implications of that in light of the Fermi Paradox (where are all the aliens?), arising from the FACT that malevolent colonization is out of the question - or we would not be here.

Perhaps at that level of technological advance, given that there are so many worlds accessible, even if only a few in any given galaxy, diversity is prized by far higher than global land grabs by cosmic thieves, or maybe the thievery of a world is prohibited and illegal, but by who's authority and what constrains them if that were the case? Is enforcement required by ever-higher powers where it could be said that Civility may be defined as: Consciously motivated organizational behavior, that is ethical in willing submission to a higher power, and if not willing, held in check by those same powers by force.

What might be the universal principal that is of such an indomitable nature that here we sit in an ocean filled with anything and everything under the suns, while remaining forever unmolested?

Or could such a malevolent force be, at this very moment, hurtling earthward, perhaps even on a mission of perceived self-defence under the false assumption that since all evil seems to be emanating from here of all places, that Earth represents the apex and nexus of an evil and wicked power, arriving only to discover that the whole thing is led an old man in a palace in Rome and a Buffoon in Washington.

Maybe their own embarrassment prevents the invasion of Earth, but that, wherever that force of technological might becomes utterly determined to destroy another world or to interfere with another nascent Civilization in a way that would ruin it's innate potential and possibility, they quickly learn the hard way, that such armament would come to the attention of still higher powers still.

I once imagined, and this would make for a great sci-fi story, the very height of alien technological advance hurtling Earthward, only to encounter the very highest power in the form of an impenetrable and in their eyes, an impossible shield that's intelligently controlled, that can first repel anything they can throw at it, and then, seal them off and swallow them up in an inexplicable black hole, an event that didn't go without notice via Ansible quantum communications with the home world, who might then proceed to build up armaments for their next go, only to note the formation of an impossible black hole within their own system.

And all the while they think to themselves - OMG, are those Earthlings ever powerful!


"And the last shall be first, and the first, last."
~ Spoken from the mouth of the son of God Almighty.

Oh the irony of it all.

At the height of the standard of Civility and Justice, hung an innocent man between two thieves, to save the world and to protect us from all predation, where instead of eat or be eaten it's "here, eat of me" instead.

I know just speculating, but for me anyway, it rings true to a certain playful sense of mirth and irony possessed by God in the whole set up.

And when we become shielded with love for one and all, we too will take to the stars, but God help us if we treat the universe the way we did Iraq, then the tables could be turned.

An "act as if" policy of non-intervention must be adopted, imho, to avoid some pretty horrific implications, including the democratic green lighting of the destruction of human civilization, if we're not careful.

And if they've been helping to shield us from meteor impacts, I think we could lose that kind of protection if we start creating human-animal hybrids for example.

The problem with the human species is, anything we can do we will, inevitably do.

As aliens wait patiently, to move into their new world...

The most powerful force in the universe has already been discovered, it's called evolution.

You don't need a civilisation behind you to spread across the universe, you just need a means of reproduction and a way to move around.

Something like a space adapted microbe could spread through the entire galaxy efficiently.

No cilivsation required.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Great post.

Just an FYI, the author of the alien franchise, in Prometheus wanted to subtly argue that Jesus was actually an engineer sent to try and fix humanity. That failed mission was the reason for the engineers wanting to black goo earth.

Disclosure?

Jesus was an ET, like other past messiahs.

Maybe everything you say is true and the order of hybridizations are the orders of angels from sacred texts.

a reply to: tadaman

I've considered that the sacred texts might in and of themselves form a type of transluminal communications channel, with the aim of saving the world without requiring any hardware or military might or intervention.

I also imagine various off-world entities as agents of God's will, either wittingly or unwittingly.

That said I don't think that Jesus got beamed up into a spaceship or that he "twinned". lol

Special relativity shows the energy necessary to travel up near the speed of light is immense. General relativity says the energy needed to bend space is way more than immense. You can't go fast through the universe, so get over it. There is still a lot to be done with sublight speeds.
I have a blog: stanericksonsblog.blogger.com devoted to the Fermi paradox; perhaps you would find something relevant there.







a reply to: AnkhMorpork

a reply to: StanFL

If there is a loophole in the laws of physics that allows for FTL "travel", then they're not moving "fast" through space.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: StanFL

If there is a loophole in the laws of physics that allows for FTL "travel", then they're not moving "fast" through space.

There are so many people that talk about this loophole on here like it is inevitable. From just a common sense stand point, its not inevitable, if it is possible at all, no matter how much we advance over the next several thousand / million years. Everything I have read and understand about physics is that the energy required to bend space sufficiently to create the speeds to zip around the galaxy at FTL speeds would be magnitudes greater than the energy of a super massive black hole. Given the temperatures, the impact on all objects near this energy source, it is unlikely anything could survive this even if it could be created. As I understand light speed, only massless photons can achieve it. Therefore, humans are going to have to live with the idea that a fraction of light speed is likely the limit. Lets say we get to 20% light speed, that is a 20 year hop to Alpha Centauri. Probably 22 - 23 with the need to speed up and slow down. That is the future of interstellar travel. Even that is likely going to take us 100 - 200 more years of technological development, at least.

I know you didn't say this. But, it is hilarious when posters on here talk about UFO's being observed traveling at light speed. Why would a UFO in Earth orbit travel at light speed? In one second, it would be 179,000 miles away from the earth, assuming it traveled past the earth's 7,000 mile diameter. Plus, you wouldn't be able to see it at that speed. It is simple babbling....

Sorry, I am not trying to be a jerk. I would love FTL travel to be possible. Without it, exciting interstellar travel zipping around to multiple planetary locations within one lifetime is not possible. Rather, hopping to one planet in one lifetime is the limit. It essentially means that humanity needs to find a planet that is for certain habitable, send a group of people there to colonize it. That group of people will then need to build the next ship to get to the next habitable planet and so on so forth for humans to populate the galaxy. I think it will happen over a very long period of time. Unfortunately, it won't be like Star Trek or Star Wars...But, the knowledge of other worlds that will occur when this happens will be very exciting and hopefully it will unify humanity.

a reply to: dougie6665

Exactly, there is no FTL. Two other issues might be raised about the Fermi paradox, among many others. One, a habitable planet does not mean life evolved there. Since there is no proved theory of the origin of life, there is no way to know if it takes a very rare combination of events on a so-called habitable planet in order to give rise to life. If only one in a million 'habitable planets' has life, that's why we are alone.
Secondly, there seems to be a science fiction flavor to the discussion about alien visitors, meaning that the assumption is that aliens are like us, in motivation and interests, except they have marvelous technology. This is the crock that science fiction authors use to entangle the reader in the story, but it doesn't make sense that an alien civilization would not also move forward in sociology and politics as well, and become on the average much more wise in making decisions. All this talk about acting like Christopher Columbus doesn't make any sense. See my blog for 100x more details on this.

a reply to: StanFL

I stopped by your blog recently and liked some of the articles. The ones I read started off quite simply and it was the way you expounded on the basics that made them an enjoyable read.

Blogs are great for providing a platform for independent ideas and disappointing in the way so many are lonely islands. I'm still sulking about the day they stopped the 'follow/subscribe' function. At the time, there were stories saying blogs were going to be killed off so I'm grateful they're still here even though the functionality is piss poor.

a reply to: dougie6665

All I'm saying is that if instantaneous travel through the stars were possible, then it probably has nothing to do with some sort of Alcubierre warp drive pushing a black hole, but something involving the zero point field, certain calculations of which have derived the law of motion, F=MA.

homepages.ihug.co.nz...

At a local level, if the UFO phenomenon is to be accepted, in part (some UFO's are interstellar spacecraft), the ET's are obviously using some sort of inertial field in defiance of the law of gravity as we know it, and we have no idea how such a thing could be accomplished, allowing for right angle turns at high speed.

Unlike the Alcubierre warp drive, which functions within the constraints of the known laws of physics, is it at least possible or conceivable, particularly within the contact of part of the UFO public record, that there's another domain of the laws of physics of which we at present have no knowledge or understanding?

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: dougie6665

All I'm saying is that if instantaneous travel through the stars were possible, then it probably has nothing to do with some sort of Alcubierre warp drive pushing a black hole, but something involving the zero point field, certain calculations of which have derived the law of motion, F=MA.

homepages.ihug.co.nz...

At a local level, if the UFO phenomenon is to be accepted, in part (some UFO's are interstellar spacecraft), the ET's are obviously using some sort of inertial field in defiance of the law of gravity as we know it, and we have no idea how such a thing could be accomplished, allowing for right angle turns at high speed.

Unlike the Alcubierre warp drive, which functions within the constraints of the known laws of physics, is it at least possible or conceivable, particularly within the contact of part of the UFO public record, that there's another domain of the laws of physics of which we at present have no knowledge or understanding?

The hypothesis put fort by Haish about inertia being an electromagnetic reaction force is just that. Other scientists disagree with his calculations. It is still interesting nonetheless.

More important though, given that he derives the same known physical laws using it, I don't see how it could be used to support the idea of "instantaneous travel".

Assuming there is some kind of "Prime Directive" in place keeping aliens away from Earth, that would also assume that every spacefaring civilization in the universe has agreed to it. I find that in some ways even more implausible than there being simply no other intelligent spacefaring civilizations out there (or at least not so far away as to make them undetectable and therefore practically imaginary).

a reply to: Blue Shift

Unless, any of the UFO reports are in fact ET spacecraft.. which if travelling at sub-light speed would require an intergenerational mothership, or, instantaneous "travel" through the universe, which, if possible, has some rather scary implications, meaning that they could come from anywhere at any time.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
Unless, any of the UFO reports are in fact ET spacecraft.. which if travelling at sub-light speed would require an intergenerational mothership, or, instantaneous "travel" through the universe, which, if possible, has some rather scary implications, meaning that they could come from anywhere at any time.

Science fiction is fun.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Except, just one valid UFO case and down goes that argument.

But yeah, it is fun, and it's breathtaking to imagine what's actually going on our there on and around other worlds.

Maybe space quarantines us all and keeps us forever apart, or maybe it doesn't.

I guess time will tell..