Why don't christians follow the laws of Leviticus and kill homosexuals, adulterers, etc.?

originally posted by: craig732
Why not just say, "I love my neighbor, and I believe in a creator" instead of associating one's self with a book full of confusion and hatred toward certain groups?

Because their reason for believing in a Creator began with the contents of that book.
It is one of the ways that he communicates with us.
So if one trusts in that God at all, it is vital to understand what else he is saying.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: chr0naut

I don't know what to do with that statement

Always agree with what others say about you... especially if it is untrue.

When someone call you a degenerate, confess to something worse and wink.

holy crap lol

Who are these people... and why haven't we talked?

Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the pathetic mewings of all those bottled kittens I was huffing.

a reply to: craig732
But my questions stands... why follow this book at all? Especially if you have to read through the whole thing and make decisions on what is good, what is bad, what is mistranslated, what are instructions for you and what are instructions for Levite priests, etc. Why not just say, "I love my neighbor, and I believe in a creator" instead of associating one's self with a book full of confusion and hatred toward certain groups?

Do you mind if i just jump in here Craig..

Before i became a christian i had a quick read of the bible and was completely confused. It was only after i asked jesus into my life did it start to make any sense at all..
I still don't understand a lot of it now but i don't let it worry me because i know that my questions will be answered at some point..

I think that none believers know far more than me to be honest.. I mainly just read the new testament as i have a bads memory from a stroke anyway..

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: chr0naut

I don't know what to do with that statement

Always agree with what others say about you... especially if it is untrue.

When someone call you a degenerate, confess to something worse and wink.

holy crap lol

Who are these people... and why haven't we talked?

Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the pathetic mewings of all those bottled kittens I was huffing.

Im sure they have a puffer for that

Or at the very least some kind of cream...

originally posted by: jon1
a reply to: craig732
But my questions stands... why follow this book at all? Especially if you have to read through the whole thing and make decisions on what is good, what is bad, what is mistranslated, what are instructions for you and what are instructions for Levite priests, etc. Why not just say, "I love my neighbor, and I believe in a creator" instead of associating one's self with a book full of confusion and hatred toward certain groups?

Do you mind if i just jump in here Craig..

Before i became a christian i had a quick read of the bible and was completely confused. It was only after i asked jesus into my life did it start to make any sense at all..
I still don't understand a lot of it now but i don't let it worry me because i know that my questions will be answered at some point..

I think that none believers know far more than me to be honest.. I mainly just read the new testament as i have a bads memory from a stroke anyway..

I'll make things a bit easier for you...

Read through the gospels... skip the geneology in Matthew (and Luke) which will start you at about Mat 3...

Then read the rest once you've digested those 4 books

originally posted by: craig732
a reply to: DISRAELI

The "love thy neighbor" part isn't the part that bothers me, although MANY christians don't follow that. So there is a great example... why does a christian justify his hate of homosexuals by saying "the bible says it is an abomination" but they don't follow the law to love thy neighbor?

But my questions stands... why follow this book at all? Especially if you have to read through the whole thing and make decisions on what is good, what is bad, what is mistranslated, what are instructions for you and what are instructions for Levite priests, etc. Why not just say, "I love my neighbor, and I believe in a creator" instead of associating one's self with a book full of confusion and hatred toward certain groups?

If your neighbor's actions are an abomination to God, then explaining that to them is an act of love.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

If your neighbor's actions are an abomination to God, then explaining that to them is an act of love.

Deuteronomy 22:5 ESV
A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.

Lisbetha Olsdotter (died 1679), Swedish cross-dresser and early female soldier (disguised as a man).

Charges

Olsdotter was put on trial for several charges:
Abandonment of husband and children;
Wearing of male clothing, which was forbidden in the Bible, and the crime of secular fraud by pretending to be a man;
Bigamy, as she married when she already had a husband;
Homosexuality, and having ridiculed the holy act of marriage by marrying someone of the same sex;
Theft, after having received salary as a soldier;
Fraud, for taking a profession she was not capable of performing.

Execution

Olsdotter was judged guilty of the charges under the law of the act of religion from 1655: for having, with full intent, "mutilated" her gender, "mocked God and the Order of God", and fooled authorities and her "fellow Christians" by impersonating a man. She was sentenced to death by decapitation.
en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: craig732
Why not just say, "I love my neighbor, and I believe in a creator" instead of associating one's self with a book full of confusion and hatred toward certain groups?

Because their reason for believing in a Creator began with the contents of that book.
It is one of the ways that he communicates with us.
So if one trusts in that God at all, it is vital to understand what else he is saying.

So, no one throughout history believed in a Creator before the Bible?
Native Americans did, along with many others.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
So, no one throughout history believed in a Creator before the Bible?
Native Americans did, along with many others.

I did not say that, did I?
My careful wording was "THEIR reason for believing". I did not say it was the only possible way to come to that belief. My point was that this is where Christians, at least, derived their belief in the Creator.
That is, the Creator introduced himself to members of the human race and said "Here I am", and the BIble contains a substantial chunk of that dialogue.
(And I was answering a question about why Christians read the Bible. Always take note of the context.)

a reply to: NOTurTypical

If your neighbor's actions are an abomination to God, then explaining that to them is an act of love.

Yes I agree with that premise entirely.

The word love is very confusing to many people and Jesus taught it very well. A neighbor can mean a nation or tribe or an individual and it can mean people who agree with you and also people who disagree with you. But love does not necessarily mean affection. It means that the human race should respect and live in peace one with the other. Naturally most everyone wants agreement but the real world is not like that at all.

Jesus loved all people but He did not abolish Sheol [hell]. That should show that love in this usage simply means respect for life and peace. Not necessarily a kiss on the cheek or a warm handshake nor political correctness for ungodly actions. It most certainly does not mean to accept the ideology of the ungodly. In this case of love your neighbor as yourself means harming others the same as you would not harm yourself.

One can love mom or dad or sister or brother but each one is a different kind of love. One can love the wife or children or Jesus and His Father but each and every one of those are different loves. And now one can love his neighbor who is in a far away country or even next door but they also are all different loves. But in each and every case it means to bring peace and no harm to any of them. Love is the biggest word known to man.

Huh....then OT God went from "kill, kill, kill" all those who He wanted....then changed it to "love your enemies" through Jesus.

Better question:
Why can't Christians even follow the simple Golden Rule?

10 rules seems like setting them up to fail.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Huh....then OT God went from "kill, kill, kill" all those who He wanted....then changed it to "love your enemies" through Jesus.

The OT God is the same as the NT God and in both the OT and the NT God does kill. In fact God has and will kill every facet of life eventually. Don't confuse killing by God with people killing each other. God reserves the right to kill regardless of whether you and I like it or do not like it.

Deu_32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

The Creator has the right to do as He pleases regardless of what you or I think is correct. He gives you and I a second shot at life so the complaint is in our ball park. Till you create your own world then the best thing to do is try to get along with God and quit bad mouthing Him.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Huh....then OT God went from "kill, kill, kill" all those who He wanted....then changed it to "love your enemies" through Jesus.

The OT God is the same as the NT God and in both the OT and the NT God does kill. In fact God has and will kill every facet of life eventually. Don't confuse killing by God with people killing each other. God reserves the right to kill regardless of whether you and I like it or do not like it.

Deu_32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

The Creator has the right to do as He pleases regardless of what you or I think is correct. He gives you and I a second shot at life so the complaint is in our ball park. Till you create your own world then the best thing to do is try to get along with God and quit bad mouthing Him.

Really? Then, HE needs to come down here and live several million lifetimes.....with Down Syndrome, cancer, addictions, cerebral palsy, homosexuality, mental illness, poverty, chronic daily pain, depression, losing children to death etc., or all of the above. OR, He can come back as an animal that is prey...or that humans mass manufacturer for food. Oh...and many of those I listed get NO relief....except death.
Do you know what's even more messed up about all of the above?? Christians are supposed to "thank Him", even in all the suffering. Why? As you said....He's God, and can do as he pleases with us.
How very kind, loving, and merciful. I know, I know....none of us have any right to question this messed up world, because it's all OUR fault.
We're supposed to be learning just how horrible life is when we don't obey, right?
I'm sorry...that's not love. It's abuse.
You suffer if you do His will...and you suffer if you don't.
The Bible does nothing but heap guilt on you for just being HUMAN.

a reply to: craig732

Maybe it's something REALLY SIMPLE...maybe we've EVOLVED beyond that idealogy into what can now be classified as "civilized human beings", instead of adhering to the ignorance of what "man" (operative word here: MAN) scribed using their take/spin on whatever it was THEY decided was right. Compare the ever UPWARD climb a good deal of mankind continues to make in the face of a so-called religion that causes, and even seems to thrive on the very same unjust fear, hatred and death Christians still strive to RID themselves of. Unfortunately the one set of feet have clearly and continually missed the next rung on the evolutionary ladder over the entire past1400 YEARS by opting to remain firmly entrenched in the ignorance of a 4th century mindset, stagnant and brittle...wantonly refusing to take the next step UP to rise above the rung labelled "rabid". Just think how our world would look and be now if THAT path had been followed instead of the one our conscience told us to take instead. The conscience God, in his vast intelligence and confidence, GAVE us to use.

Personally, I'll side with those who took our God given intelligence and ran with it! Yes, it took seemingly eons to look at, study and decide to offer the BEST of what we as humans can offer each other to glorify God and use THAT, rather than the absolute WORST. I firmly believe that a truly loving, forgiving and tolerant God would tell us in that way we're closer to achieving what just may have been his "secret" (I'm guessing) expectations when we choose to develop attributes that would bring us closer to becoming as he is...after all, doesn't the Bible state that God is within each of us since we were "made in His image"?

If you're a father just think of the times you may have given your child(ren) a kind of learning experience/test, where you gave them a seemingly harsh task and they pretty much ignored what you instructed, then proceeded to turn it around into something wonderful, rich and rewarding for all. And best of all...made you PROUD. Perhaps God wants to watch as we travel the road WE chose using the mind and heart he gave us...whether it's the one that he told us to take, or the one that works best for ALL and makes him PROUD to call us His children! We won't know until we reach our destination, will we?

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Really? Then, HE needs to come down here and live several million lifetimes.....with Down Syndrome, cancer, addictions, cerebral palsy, homosexuality, mental illness, poverty, chronic daily pain, depression, losing children to death etc., or all of the above. OR, He can come back as an animal that is prey...or that humans mass manufacturer for food. Oh...and many of those I listed get NO relief....except death. Do you know what's even more messed up about all of the above?? Christians are supposed to "thank Him", even in all the suffering. Why? As you said....He's God, and can do as he pleases with us. How very kind, loving, and merciful. I know, I know....none of us have any right to question this messed up world, because it's all OUR fault. We're supposed to be learning just how horrible life is when we don't obey, right? I'm sorry...that's not love. It's abuse. You suffer if you do His will...and you suffer if you don't. The Bible does nothing but heap guilt on you for just being HUMAN.

I realize that you are angry and I am angry also. The difference between us is that I am angry about the people and not God. The Father God created a perfect place for His creation to exist and promised that we could have dominion over all life forms that He created. He did not impose any disease or maladies upon His creation. People procreated and wallowed in sin all by themselves and they are responsible for everything that is present today. That includes you and me.

Death is inevitable to this creation. This universe will completely dissolve in fervent heat one day and all terrestrial life will suddenly evaporate. That is according to the Apostles and Prophets. It seems that it is immaterial the length of one's terrestrial life in comparison to an everlasting celestial life. I agree that the bible heaps guilt upon people who then become aware of right and wrong but that is some of the purpose of the bible. How would you like a bible that lies to you into believing that you can live in sin forever. Would that make you really angry to wake up in perdition knowing that you were lied to? Then you would really have a reason to hate your Creator.

Now you wonder why that little child is suffering with cancer? It is because of all of us. We are the bastards who created this mess that we exist in today. Is there a way out of this mess? Yes there is but it will take a total turn about from what we are today and that will never happen and you very well know it. The Creator even gave us nine gifts which healing is one and put them in the bible for us to read and to use. But what do we do? We laugh and scoff and disbelieve and then curse the Creator as well as murder the messengers. That is why I am angry at the people.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Huh....then OT God went from "kill, kill, kill" all those who He wanted....then changed it to "love your enemies" through Jesus.

Here is where the truth should be shown. No scripture or brow beating unless you demand references.

When you said "through Jesus" that rang my bell. Are you aware that the Creator in the OT is the same Creator in the NT?

Now if what I say is true then it was the celestial Jesus who did the killing. After all isn't He the celestial Jesus who is the Creator of all terrestrial visibility and invisibility? So actually the killing was not done by one and love by another. It is all of one Creator and His Father. Now be aware that the Father did not create except through His Son. The Father is one but the Son is two. The Father is Spirit or Likeness but the Son is Image and a portion of His Father. Nevertheless, the Son created physicality and the Father gave physicality life.

When you infer that God was in charge in the OT and Jesus is in charge in the NT is not of the doctrine of Jesus. Jesus was and is in charge in both OT and NT as He is the Creator who you call God in the OT. Jesus is not all love as you understand the word Love. Some will be destroyed and yet loved by Jesus. The doctrine which is now adopted by most churches is that of political correctness which teaches that God is nothing but love. No one loses and everyone goes to heaven. In order to embrace that doctrine one must then divide a bad god with a good god and the result is a lie.

a reply to: craig732

Because for the most part they don't read their bible. They don't know it, and even if they did they would dismiss all the parts that require them to act like a crazy criminal, citing "He works in mysterious ways" or claim "that part is not meant lterally". They (sometimes) get dressed up go to church and sing songs, kneel and pretend to listen to the guy at the podium. Sometimes they get really into it...usually in times of grief and/or depression but that is usually fleeting.

Just my observations as a person born into a "Christian" family

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

This universe will completely dissolve in fervent heat one day and all terrestrial life will suddenly evaporate. That is according to the Apostles and Prophets.

You understand just blindly accepting what Prophets and Apostles said as absolute truth and fact is why no one likes you.

The best Science in the world can barely predict the weather tomorrow.

Nothing Biblically prophesied has ever happened, ever, without drastic reinterpretation.

Nor will it ever.

Ever.

a reply to: imjack


That's pretty ignorant to Biblical prophecy, for instance, the prophecies in Daniel are so accurate in what he records for world leaders/future empires that skeptics for 1000s of years have said he must have written Daniel after the fact. Then came the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls, and the poor skeptics hearts were crushed to learn some fragments of Daniel dated to the second century B.C.

Once again, with numerous OT prophecies concerning Jesus of Nazareth were so accurate, skeptics claimed they were written after the life and death of Jesus, they were again saddened to despair to learn the OT cannon was written long before 450 BC.